Quote Is the requirement for the Motherboard really just a graphics support requirement for UHD and HDMI 2.0? Or, is there a specific motherboard chipset requirement that must be satisfied independently of the graphic's card capabilities?

As far as I know, there're four features required for the motherboard: SGX, HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2 and HDR support.

SGX covers several parts in the motherboard. HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2 and HDR requires the LSPCON chip on the motherboard to support.

I wouldn't call HDR a requirement. The software (PDVD17) is able to send the videosignal to the monitor or TV and then it is the monitor's job to show you a HDR picture. If the monitor does not support HDR, PowerDVD gives you an error message and switches to SDR. I believe the motherboard has nothing to do with this, am I right?

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Quote I wouldn't call HDR a requirement. The software (PDVD17) is able to send the videosignal to the monitor or TV and then it is the monitor's job to show you a HDR picture. If the monitor does not support HDR, PowerDVD gives you an error message and switches to SDR. I believe the motherboard has nothing to do with this, am I right?

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I am confused also, the only place the motherboard would come into play is through controlling the I/O to the DVD player if you have a dedicated Graphics card that supports UHD. This all assumes there are no timing or latency problems leaving the software and getting the return signal from the monitor. The link requirements would exist between the software and the DVD player.

What has me confused is why the Cyberlink advisor is telling me my board does not support SGX, but it is listed as compatible. I would like to get this sorted before investing in a $300 DVD.

This reminds me of the beginning days of CDs and DVDs when everything was proprietary and hardward cost a fortune. Now, the same functionality that cost hundreds of dollars back in the 90s can be bought for $15.

Quote I wouldn't call HDR a requirement. The software (PDVD17) is able to send the videosignal to the monitor or TV and then it is the monitor's job to show you a HDR picture. If the monitor does not support HDR, PowerDVD gives you an error message and switches to SDR. I believe the motherboard has nothing to do with this, am I right?

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If your motherboard has HDMI output for Intel integrated GPU, motherboard matters at this moment.
Video processing: Intel GPU -> motherboard chip -> HDMI port.

So, no matter desktop or laptop PC both need their motherboard supports UHDBD or HDR requirement.

Go to their support article to search what you (blackcoffee) need:
http://www.cyberlink.com/support/faq-content.do?id=19860&isDraft=1
http://www.cyberlink.com/support/faq-content.do?id=19871&isDraft=1

Those 2 almost answer everything "available" currnetly.

I am sorry for not explaining this better in my previous post.

You are right with HDMI, HDCP and SGX, of course.

What I am saying is that HDR, the fourth thing you listed, is not a requirement. The previous three certainly are requirements.

UHD BD with HDR becomes available after you meet the three requirements. Better? .
FOR THE LIST OF ULTRA HD BLU-RAY COMPATIBLE MOTHERBOARDS CLICK HERE
My hardware: Aorus Z270X Gaming 8 motherboard + i7 7700 CPU + Pioneer BDR-S11J-BK

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Quote I wouldn't call HDR a requirement. The software (PDVD17) is able to send the videosignal to the monitor or TV and then it is the monitor's job to show you a HDR picture. If the monitor does not support HDR, PowerDVD gives you an error message and switches to SDR. I believe the motherboard has nothing to do with this, am I right?

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If your motherboard has HDMI output for Intel integrated GPU, motherboard matters at this moment.
Video processing: Intel GPU -> motherboard chip -> HDMI port.

So, no matter desktop or laptop PC both need their motherboard supports UHDBD or HDR requirement.

Go to their support article to search what you (blackcoffee) need:
http://www.cyberlink.com/support/faq-content.do?id=19860&isDraft=1
http://www.cyberlink.com/support/faq-content.do?id=19871&isDraft=1

Those 2 almost answer everything "available" currnetly.

Thanks for your post. Here is my confusion. If I follow the link posted by triffid:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=13271422&postcount=108

It lists my motherboard, Gigabyte Z170X Gaming GT, as UHD BD compatible. Your links indicate the Z270 chipset is need.

The CyberLink Advisor indicates my board does not meet standards and there is no BIOS setting, yes I have the latest BIOS, to enable SGX or I can't find it.

So, I appreciate the links and discussion, but my specific questions is now about the Gigabyte Z170X Gaming GT. Is the fourm.blu-ray.com link incorrect, or is the Cyberlink Advisor reporting incorrectly?

The Advisor is right, I am afraid. You see, I checked all Z170 and Z270 boards on the market to make the list. Unfortunately not all manufacturers provide detailed enough specifications. Many are missing HDMI version, leavning us uncertain if it is 1.4 or 2.0, almost everybody forgets about HDCP version and nobody actually mentions SGX among specifications.

I needed to read manuals, check related downloads and wrote questions to the manufacturers. The work is not done yet. Gigabyte support answered to me that they passed my question to a qualified technician and he should answer later. However if you have the latest BIOS and you still can't find Intel Software Guard Extensions option there, then Gaming GT is not able to play UHD BDs, I am sorry.

Does your BIOS look like this? There is no SGX option on the picture.

http://www.tweaktown.com/image.php?image=imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/7/4/7420_50_gigabyte-z170x-ud5-th-intel-z170-motherboard-review_full.png .
FOR THE LIST OF ULTRA HD BLU-RAY COMPATIBLE MOTHERBOARDS CLICK HERE
My hardware: Aorus Z270X Gaming 8 motherboard + i7 7700 CPU + Pioneer BDR-S11J-BK

This sucks, so since I'm using an Asus MB with an X99 chipset and a dedicated graphics card, instead of having Intel integrated graphics, and after buying the software, my PC is not even compatible to run HDR video? This sucks. In Nvidia's control panel, it lists my GPUs as being HDCP 2.2 compliant, so I figured it would work. This is similar to using the Windows Hello feature in Windows 10, which requires a camera that specifically uses Intel's Realsense Technology, but it's only compatible with certain MBs too.

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That's the old BIOS. I have the latest F21, but it does not have an SGX option under peripherals.

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That's the old BIOS. I have the latest F21, but it does not have an SGX option under peripherals.

The Intel SGX feature is optional for motherboard even the chipset on the board is capable to do it.
That is, although the chipset is a "right" one, if the manufacturer doesn't implement the Intel SGX feature on their "firmware", still no Intel SGX.

And, this feature is usually controllable in the BIOS. If no such options, probably no Intel SGX support.
Unfortunately, any confirmation should refer to Gigabyte as there are various motherboards support it or not support it.

For other users who might be reading this topic, I personally think that's the thing (the motherboard supports SGX or not) which CyberLink cannot and "should not" provide the answer, because the answer is not appropriate to refer to a software vendor but the hardware manufacturer.

What they wrote in the support article is neutral statement as a testing result which is sufficient information at least to me.

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That's the old BIOS. I have the latest F21, but it does not have an SGX option under peripherals.

The Intel SGX feature is optional for motherboard even the chipset on the board is capable to do it.
That is, although the chipset is a "right" one, if the manufacturer doesn't implement the Intel SGX feature on their "firmware", still no Intel SGX.

And, this feature is usually controllable in the BIOS. If no such options, probably no Intel SGX support.
Unfortunately, any confirmation should refer to Gigabyte as there are various motherboards support it or not support it.

For other users who might be reading this topic, I personally think that's the thing (the motherboard supports SGX or not) which CyberLink cannot and "should not" provide the answer, because the answer is not appropriate to refer to a software vendor but the hardware manufacturer.

What they wrote in the support article is neutral statement as a testing result which is sufficient information at least to me.

I would disagree that the software vendor is immune to hardware implementations. Especially in this case. If your advertised software functionality, in fact your premium feature, is UHD, then you are responsible for hardware support. This is further complicated by the fact that Cyberlink both posts hardware compatibility on thier website and provides a software advisor tool which is used to establish hardware compatibility.

In this case, UHD depends on very specific hardware which is just hitting the market and there are practically no drives to support playback. The claimed selling points of the software are not widely available to existing hardware or customers.

I am sure that if you bought software that had no hardware support or implementation, you would question the advertising claims of the software retailer. Software cannot run without hardware.

Quote I am sorry for not explaining this better in my previous post.

You are right with HDMI, HDCP and SGX, of course.

What I am saying is that HDR, the fourth thing you listed, is not a requirement. The previous three certainly are requirements.

UHD BD with HDR becomes available after you meet the three requirements. Better?

Per my understanding,
HDMI, HDCP, SGX, APVP (Advanced Protected Video Path) are mainly for UHD-BD playback security.
UHD-BD advisor directly present it in detection.

GPU, Display Device, OS version affect HDR.
Of course, UHD-BD and HDR have many requirements in common.

By the way, your motherboard list is such an awesome reference to help people here.
Regular users have no available access to know that much on so many motherboards compatibilities on their own.

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That's the old BIOS. I have the latest F21, but it does not have an SGX option under peripherals.

The Intel SGX feature is optional for motherboard even the chipset on the board is capable to do it.
That is, although the chipset is a "right" one, if the manufacturer doesn't implement the Intel SGX feature on their "firmware", still no Intel SGX.

And, this feature is usually controllable in the BIOS. If no such options, probably no Intel SGX support.
Unfortunately, any confirmation should refer to Gigabyte as there are various motherboards support it or not support it.

For other users who might be reading this topic, I personally think that's the thing (the motherboard supports SGX or not) which CyberLink cannot and "should not" provide the answer, because the answer is not appropriate to refer to a software vendor but the hardware manufacturer.

What they wrote in the support article is neutral statement as a testing result which is sufficient information at least to me.

I would disagree that the software vendor is immune to hardware implementations. Especially in this case. If your advertised software functionality, in fact your premium feature, is UHD, then you are responsible for hardware support. This is further complicated by the fact that Cyberlink both posts hardware compatibility on thier website and provides a software advisor tool which is used to establish hardware compatibility.

In this case, UHD depends on very specific hardware which is just hitting the market and there are practically no drives to support playback. The claimed selling points of the software are not widely available to existing hardware or customers.

I am sure that if you bought software that had no hardware support or implementation, you would question the advertising claims of the software retailer. Software cannot run without hardware.

So, ask CyberLink do not manufacture a UHDBD software player and do not release it when the hardware support is not sufficient currently, will it satisfy you?

As you said "Software cannot run without hardware", blame software vendor won't help you or other user resolve their problems.
And, you do have your free choice not to buy it as it is a commcercial software.

"PC" is an industry and ecosystem need every participants (software, hardware, etc) to deliver every piece of features and functions on the devices.

For what you said:
"I am sure that if you bought software that had no hardware support or implementation, you would question the advertising claims of the software retailer. Software cannot run without hardware."

Yes, I will definitely question the software vendor.
But, I saw CyberLink made "big" efforts to provide free advisor and support articles to help users before they puchase sofware, and they did NOT across the red line to GUARANTEE something they do not manufacture or test with basic "integrity".
Therefore, I left my questions and blame, and search for the helps what they currently provides or users provide in this forum.

For now, use PC to play back UHD-BD is such a geek thing, such as you want to play BD movies decades ago.
UHD-BD requirement is not CyberLink's "product" but it's a "fact" in the PC industry.

Sure, this fact is not well acceptable for enthusiasts if they want it at this very early stage for PC markets.

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That's the old BIOS. I have the latest F21, but it does not have an SGX option under peripherals.

The Intel SGX feature is optional for motherboard even the chipset on the board is capable to do it.
That is, although the chipset is a "right" one, if the manufacturer doesn't implement the Intel SGX feature on their "firmware", still no Intel SGX.

And, this feature is usually controllable in the BIOS. If no such options, probably no Intel SGX support.
Unfortunately, any confirmation should refer to Gigabyte as there are various motherboards support it or not support it.

For other users who might be reading this topic, I personally think that's the thing (the motherboard supports SGX or not) which CyberLink cannot and "should not" provide the answer, because the answer is not appropriate to refer to a software vendor but the hardware manufacturer.

What they wrote in the support article is neutral statement as a testing result which is sufficient information at least to me.

I would disagree that the software vendor is immune to hardware implementations. Especially in this case. If your advertised software functionality, in fact your premium feature, is UHD, then you are responsible for hardware support. This is further complicated by the fact that Cyberlink both posts hardware compatibility on thier website and provides a software advisor tool which is used to establish hardware compatibility.

In this case, UHD depends on very specific hardware which is just hitting the market and there are practically no drives to support playback. The claimed selling points of the software are not widely available to existing hardware or customers.

I am sure that if you bought software that had no hardware support or implementation, you would question the advertising claims of the software retailer. Software cannot run without hardware.

So, ask CyberLink do not manufacture a UHDBD software player and do not release it when the hardware support is not sufficient currently, will it satisfy you?

As you said "Software cannot run without hardware", blame software vendor won't help you or other user resolve their problems.
And, you do have your free choice not to buy it as it is a commcercial software.

"PC" is an industry and ecosystem need every participants (software, hardware, etc) to deliver every piece of features and functions on the devices.

For what you said:
"I am sure that if you bought software that had no hardware support or implementation, you would question the advertising claims of the software retailer. Software cannot run without hardware."

Yes, I will definitely question the software vendor.
But, I saw CyberLink made "big" efforts to provide free advisor and support articles to help users before they puchase sofware, and they did NOT across the red line to GUARANTEE something they do not manufacture or test with basic "integrity".
Therefore, I left my questions and blame, and search for the helps what they currently provides or users provide in this forum.

For now, use PC to play back UHD-BD is such a geek thing, such as you want to play BD movies decades ago.
UHD-BD requirement is not CyberLink's "product" but it's a "fact" in the PC industry.

Sure, this fact is not well acceptable for enthusiasts if they want it at this very early stage for PC markets.

I guess the main difference is that I am a system engineer not a software engineer. Here is the problem, for the last three releases problems, bugs, and lack of functionality with the GUI and library management modules have persisted. At the same time, Cyberlink has pursued a functionality that is of no value and doesn't justify the annual $50 donation on my part.

We probably agree on one thing, PowerDVD 17 isn't worth the money to upgrade.

CyberLink says: Hey, we have a software player ready. Now it is HW manufacturers' turn. They need to produce new drives (LG, ASUS?) and new compatible graphics cards. They should also update BIOSes for existing motherboards. And AMD should definitely unveil its alternative to SGX to make AMD based computers compatible as well. .
FOR THE LIST OF ULTRA HD BLU-RAY COMPATIBLE MOTHERBOARDS CLICK HERE
My hardware: Aorus Z270X Gaming 8 motherboard + i7 7700 CPU + Pioneer BDR-S11J-BK

Quote CyberLink says: Hey, we have a software player ready. Now it is HW manufacturers' turn. They need to produce new drives (LG, ASUS?) and new compatible graphics cards. They should also update BIOSes for existing motherboards. And AMD should definitely unveil its alternative to SGX to make AMD based computers compatible as well.

Well, I'd say I am sorry that you would take it that way.

Let me share my thoughts about it so that you can see why this happens.

As you may know that the DRM requirements (like AACS) or the feature implementation (like HDR) basically are defined by standard specs so that all the players and movie titles can interop as best as possible. This is the beauty of the open ecosystem so that you can play a Blu-ray disc on every player that claim and are certified to support it.

But when we look at the PC-side, the features and DRM requirements need to be fulfilled by both software and hardware

But a software player vendor can't control the hardware part. Unlike Sony or Panasonic CE players, CE player vendors can guarantee all SW/HW components are ready before selling their product.



Then here's the thing that if CyberLink want to make a new player to support Ultra HD Blu-ray, CyberLink can't make it by its own. Likewise, Pioneer PC ODD Hardware can't make a player on its own neither.

Software vendors need to work with Hardware vendors (CPU/MB/GPU/ODD) to provide support for fulfilling the 4K decoding, HDR signal processing, DRM requirements, etc.



In the past, when Blu-ray first come to PC, there's another role proactively making it happen in a more intuitive error-prone way, they are the OEMs (Dell, HP, Acer, Asus computers). OEM vendors are customers of all the software and hardware components and they have the power to drive all the component vendors. In this way, the computers are guaranteed to work before they sell their product.

But nowadays, seems OEMs are hesitating as they are seeing declines for the physical discs. This makes CyberLink (or Pioneer for PC Drive) be in a positions that he need to release their own product earlier than the branded computers, and try to push the industry forward. Otherwise, there's no UHD-BD PC solution.

As a result, this cause the setup problems as we all see today for UHD-BD PC. I believe for user experience-wise, there're still room to improve as so far there're only DIY computers can work with it and so far there're only 3 MBs can support the full UHD-BD features and the worse thing is that these 3 MBs can't claim UHD-BD ready as they are only part of a computer.



I guess sooner or later, these motherboard vendors would update their product website when they see UHD-BD is an important sales point. Not very good, but at least it's a start.

Quote I wouldn't call HDR a requirement. The software (PDVD17) is able to send the videosignal to the monitor or TV and then it is the monitor's job to show you a HDR picture. If the monitor does not support HDR, PowerDVD gives you an error message and switches to SDR. I believe the motherboard has nothing to do with this, am I right?

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Let me try to explain this in more detail.

PowerDVD would send the decrypted video (compressed in HEVC) to GPU (Intel HD 630 or above), then the GPU would perform the video decoding (DXVA) and send the video and the HDR data from GPU to HDMI. The HDMI port is on the motherboard and there's a chip called LSPCON which performs the DisplayPort to HDMI conversion. So if this LSPCON chip that is included by the motherboard didn't support HDR metadata, then the HDR effects can't be pass to TV via HDMI.



This is why MotherBoard also plays a key role for HDR 10/HDCP 2.2/HDMI 2.0a

There might be boards that included the support for HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0a but not HDR 10, then the board can play UHD-BD but only in SDR mode.

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Let me try to explain this in more detail.

PowerDVD would send the decrypted video (compressed in HEVC) to GPU (Intel HD 630 or above), then the GPU would perform the video decoding (DXVA) and send the video and the HDR data from GPU to HDMI. The HDMI port is on the motherboard and there's a chip called LSPCON which performs the DisplayPort to HDMI conversion. So if this LSPCON chip that is included by the motherboard didn't support HDR metadata, then the HDR effects can't be pass to TV via HDMI.



This is why MotherBoard also plays a key role for HDR 10/HDCP 2.2/HDMI 2.0a

There might be boards that included the support for HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0a but not HDR 10, then the board can play UHD-BD but only in SDR mode.

Thanks for the clarification. However, how does your scenario pan out when you have a graphics card with it's own HDMI or DisplayPort connector. In that case, it seems like the motherboard is out of the loop since the traffic goes from the software to the buss to the high end GPU.

That being said, there is a path from the UHD BD drive through BIOS to the buss through the chipset. Does that play into the completion of the entire path from media to display, or not?

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Thanks for the clarification. However, how does your scenario pan out when you have a graphics card with it's own HDMI or DisplayPort connector. In that case, it seems like the motherboard is out of the loop since the traffic goes from the software to the buss to the high end GPU.

That being said, there is a path from the UHD BD drive through BIOS to the buss through the chipset. Does that play into the completion of the entire path from media to display, or not?

Yes. you're right. If for the discrete GPU case, the HDCP 2.2/HDR/HDMI 2.0a features are implemented by the discrete GPU.

So when NV/AMD GPU can support UHDBD, then mainboard is not required for HDCP 2.2/HDR 10/HDMI 2.0a.

But so far there's no discrete GPU that supports UHD-BD. I guess CyberLink is still trying hard to persuade NV/AMD to work with them to come up a solution.

UHD-BD DRM requirement not only requires HDCP 2.2, if you take a look at the AACS2 License agreement, you'll see there're far more requirements that need to be meet. For example, they need kernel mode processing, they need to protect the screen from being captured by 3rd party screen recorders, etc. These requires support from NV/AMDs, CyberLink can't make it on their own.