PowerDirector 15 Extracted Audio longer than the clip it came from

JonathanS

Newbie Joined: Feb 17, 2016 19:53 Messages: 45 Offline

Solved by

Apr 01, 2017 19:07

Okay, this one is frustrating...

It only just started happening. I drop a clip into the library, extract its audio, then put both the clip and the extracted audio on the timeline. The audio is exactly ONE frame larger that the clip it came from! (at 30 fps) Playing both the original clip at the same time as the extracted audio, and they are just out of sync enough to create a robotic sound. Syncing the audio does not work, because PD can only line up to the nearest frame, not to the half-frame. The longer clip is either just ahead of the original or just after the original, depending on if you line up the beginning or end. This never used to happen -- what's going on??

The only change was recently adjusting my output. For a small project, I briefly used a 640x480 MP4 (H.264 AVC) preset. Then and since coming back to my usual 1920x1080/30p (H.264 AVC) preset, this has been happening. What's going on??

EDIT: On VERY close inspection, the extracted audio for my current clip (this was happening elsewhere too) has 0.0217 secs of silence added to its start. This is less than the 0.0333 secs for each frame of 30 fps video. Because PowerDirector can only align to the closest frame, I'm always going to be off, unless I start trimming with a very precise scalpel.

But trimming was never necessary before, and adds a ton of precise time to my editing processes. Why is this happening?

EDIT2: Attempting with multiple files, of differing resolutions, had mixed results. SOme were fine, others were not.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 01. 2017 20:26

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Apr 01, 2017 20:37

More than likely your video is of a variable framerate and not really 30fps constant. You can use a utility like MediaInfo to verify file framerate. Variable framerate files do/can/have caused PD issues. Converting the clips to a more compatible format at constant framerate with a utility prior to editing in PD often helps.

As added info, you can move audio at a 1/10 of a frame interval in PD, vs video which is adjusted at a frame interval.

Jeff

JonathanS

Newbie Joined: Feb 17, 2016 19:53 Messages: 45 Offline

Apr 01, 2017 21:08

Quote More than likely your video is of a variable framerate and not really 30fps constant. You can use a utility like MediaInfo to verify file framerate. Variable framerate files do/can/have caused PD issues. Converting the clips to a more compatible format at constant framerate with a utility prior to editing in PD often helps.

As added info, you can move audio at a 1/10 of a frame interval in PD, vs video which is adjusted at a frame interval.

Jeff

Thanks for the reply Jeff.

The file in question was created by PD 15 itself, using the H.264 AVC format, 1920x1080 30p setting. As far as I know, the frame rate is not variable, nor do I know of any way to have PD "produce" fixed rates vs variable.

And if audio can be moved at 1/10 frame interval, I do not see how. Mine snaps to the nearest frame when dragging, no matter how far I zoom in.

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Apr 01, 2017 21:16

The 1/10 frame was discussed here with some pics, http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/30864.page#post_box_169355

How was the PD generated footage encoded, CPU, SVRT, GPU and what framerate was the source clips? Again, a MediaInfo of the source clips would give some info for evaluation.

Jeff

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Apr 02, 2017 11:16

Quote
And if audio can be moved at 1/10 frame interval, I do not see how. Mine snaps to the nearest frame when dragging, no matter how far I zoom in.

In PD15 to activate the 1/10 frame one needs to adjust in pref, pref > Editing "Enlarge timeline scale for audio track"

Jeff

JonathanS

Newbie Joined: Feb 17, 2016 19:53 Messages: 45 Offline

Apr 03, 2017 15:31

Quote

Quote
And if audio can be moved at 1/10 frame interval, I do not see how. Mine snaps to the nearest frame when dragging, no matter how far I zoom in.

In PD15 to activate the 1/10 frame one needs to adjust in pref, pref > Editing "Enlarge timeline scale for audio track"

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff, I had just found that setting and was about to post it. You beat me to it.

That may help a lot.

I'm still a little bothered that the video clip is a different length. I attempted extracting the audio with an outside program (Hail, Audacity!). Dropping that audio into the timeline caused the same issue - the audio was longer than the video clip. The only thing I can think of is that PD is "reading" the video file wrong somehow, or without enough fidelity. It's also possible that the trouble lies somewhere in the difference between 30 fps and the 29.97 fps that PD seems to generate.

EDIT: Playing both the extracted audio and the video clip together, and they refuse to sync even now. Moving by 1/10 of a frame, or a few tenths, does not seem to help.


Filename	Capture.PNG	Download
Description	Produce settings
Filesize	469 Kbytes
Downloaded:	32 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 03. 2017 15:36

JonathanS

Newbie Joined: Feb 17, 2016 19:53 Messages: 45 Offline

Apr 03, 2017 16:19

Continuing the saga:

I tested three clips, all created with PD 15s presets, using the H.264 AVC preset:

1920x1080 at 120p

1920x1080 at 30p (my intended resolution)

1280x720 at 30p

I plopped all three into a new projected, extracted their audio, and put each one on the timeline with its extracted audio.

In all three cases, the WAV file was slightly longer than the MP4. The video is 1,26;16, and the audio is 1,26;17.

Of interest, nothing was gained between 30p and 120p. The audio was equally bad. However, the lower resolution (1280x720) was notably less bad. It's extracted audio was still longer than the clip it came from, but the difference was not as noticable until near the end of the clip.

Examining all three WAV files in Audacity, however, revealed three nearly identical clips. None was longer than the other.

I also attempted a custom profile with exactly 30 fps (instead of 29.97) and 1920x1080. This created a slightly shorter video file at 1,26;15, but the audio file was still longer at 1,26;16. Like the lower res example above, this was synced at the beginning, but did not sync by the end.

To add to the information on here:

Windows 10 Pro

PowerDirector 15 Ultimate

Core i5-2320 CPU (3.00 GHz)

32GB RAM

GPU: AMD Radeon 6800 HD, 1 (?) GB

(Yes, I know this is an aging computer...)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 03. 2017 16:59

JonathanS

Newbie Joined: Feb 17, 2016 19:53 Messages: 45 Offline

Apr 03, 2017 17:34

Quote More than likely your video is of a variable framerate and not really 30fps constant. You can use a utility like MediaInfo to verify file framerate. Variable framerate files do/can/have caused PD issues. Converting the clips to a more compatible format at constant framerate with a utility prior to editing in PD often helps.

As added info, you can move audio at a 1/10 of a frame interval in PD, vs video which is adjusted at a frame interval.

Jeff

The files being produced by PowerDirector are in fact Variable, according to MediaInfo. Do you have a suggestion to stop PD from doing so?

Just for the record, my whole process involves this:

Take multiple MOV (29.97 fps, 1920x1080) files from camera

Use PD to stitch them together

Produce a single MP4 (1920x1080 29.97fps, H.264 AVC)

Start new project

Use PD to extract the audio from the MP4 as WAV

Tweak the WAV in Audacity

Place the MP4 and the WAV on the timeline

Lament that the WAV is longer than the MP4.

For the record, the original MOV files are Constant bit rate...

ynotfish

Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline

Apr 03, 2017 17:40

Hi JonathanS -

I don't think I can shed much light on your observations, except to say that it puzzles me too.

Just now I took a clip & trimmed it up ready to produce. Duration in timeline 3:23:20

Produced to H.264 AVC 1920x1080 30fps 15Mbps - duration in timeline 3:23:20

Extracted audio from produced file - duration in timeline 3:23:19

MediaInfo read both files (produced video & extracted audio) simply as 3min 23sec (not so useful)

Moo0 Video Info read the produced video as 3:23.86 & the extracted audio as 3:23.84

(I shouldn't put this here because it only muddies the waters) Each of the files was sent to AudioDirector to check duration:

Original trimmed clip = 3:23.898, Produced video = 3:23.861, Extracted audio = 3:23.840 (consistent with VideoInfo)

On a cheerier note, I couldn't detect any "out-of-syncness" when the files were played back together.

Cheers - Tony
Visit PDtoots. PowerDirector Tutorials, tips, free resources & more. Subscribe!
Full linked Tutorial Catalog PDtoots happily supports fellow PowerDirector users!

JonathanS

Newbie Joined: Feb 17, 2016 19:53 Messages: 45 Offline

Apr 03, 2017 18:02

Quote Hi JonathanS -

I don't think I can shed much light on your observations, except to say that it puzzles me too.

Just now I took a clip & trimmed it up ready to produce. Duration in timeline 3:23:20

Produced to H.264 AVC 1920x1080 30fps 15Mbps - duration in timeline 3:23:20

Extracted audio from produced file - duration in timeline 3:23:19

MediaInfo read both files (produced video & extracted audio) simply as 3min 23sec (not so useful)

Moo0 Video Info read the produced video as 3:23.86 & the extracted audio as 3:23.84

(I shouldn't put this here because it only muddies the waters) Each of the files was sent to AudioDirector to check duration:

Original trimmed clip = 3:23.898, Produced video = 3:23.861, Extracted audio = 3:23.840 (consistent with VideoInfo)

On a cheerier note, I couldn't detect any "out-of-syncness" when the files were played back together.

Cheers - Tony

Thanks Tony/PDToots - I remember you confirming another issue I had (have) with Border Blur in titles, too. It eventually came down to Customer Support providing me a custom dll file, that nearly got replaced when an update came out later. The custom file mitigated that issue, but didn't solve it entirely.

I have a feeling this is not a dll issue.

JonathanS

Newbie Joined: Feb 17, 2016 19:53 Messages: 45 Offline

Apr 03, 2017 18:21

Continuing to test and get poor results:

The same issue is occuring using H.265 HEVC (which Windows 10 still does not natively support, thus why I use H.264). Extracted audio there, too, is longer than the original. The beginning sounds fine, but the further you get into the clip, the worse the syncronization is, just as with the other "produce" settings.

Whether or not "Hardware decoding" was selected made no difference.

JonathanS

Newbie Joined: Feb 17, 2016 19:53 Messages: 45 Offline

Apr 03, 2017 18:36

Found a work-around ---

Among the options in the "Produce" area is the option to produce a WAV file.

At its maximum setting of 1,536 kbps, the file produced is equivalent in quality to the "extracted" version, also at 1,536 kbps (which is absurdly low, just fyi). However, its duration -- the crux of the discussion here -- comes out exactly the same as the video it comes from. Thus, when played simulatenously as the clip, there are no sync issues, either at the beginning or the ending. I can then edit the audio to my heart's content (in Audacity), re-import it, and not worry that my lips and voice do not line up.

I must say, though, this is a LOUSY workaround, though -- it basically means that from here on out, I have to ignore the "Extract Audio" feature from within PowerDirector, and instead add another time-sucking "Produce" to my routine. If PowerDirector does not even work with the files that it creates, then I'm pretty disappointed with this product.

ynotfish

Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline

Apr 03, 2017 19:10

Just to confirm... yes - producing to WAV results in an audio file of the correct duration. I would have said BETTER, rather than "LOUSY"

Silly me... I was thinking maybe if I changed the original production format it would have improved matters. It made the differences worse! I produced to M2TS, instead of MP4. Timeline screenshot attached.

I guess the bottom line is to avoid "Extract Audio" & use Produce to Audio Only whenever precision matters.

Cheers - Tony


Filename	Audio Duration.jpg	Download
Description
Filesize	370 Kbytes
Downloaded:	35 time(s)

Visit PDtoots. PowerDirector Tutorials, tips, free resources & more. Subscribe!
Full linked Tutorial Catalog PDtoots happily supports fellow PowerDirector users!