Get HQ and LQ Videos on Produce at same 1080WMV same source material, Mystery? PD13

Darp1

Member Location: USA Joined: Nov 18, 2013 10:13 Messages: 122 Offline

Solved by

Jan 19, 2016 15:10

This one really has me going. After years of using PD (this is PD13)
never have seen it. I will produce and suddenly get low
quality video in titles and some parts, yet it is produced at exact
same output as high quality output, AND the file size is the same
(about 900megs for 18 mins.

After the first time redid it and got high quality again, so thought I must
of made mistake. Then it happened again. Over last two days it has been:

LQ,HQ,LQ,HQ,LQ,LQ in last 6 produces.

I have attached a side by side
still, that title is moving hence why slightly different location.
The quality diff is huge, yet same file size and same WMV,
10mbps 1080 selection.

Baffled. Anyone encounter the same?

I have 40 min track, with first 18 done. I then copy to new PDS
name so can cut off last 22 mins, then copy in from another PDS a 2
min section, so can produce and look at a finalized 20 min first half of complete
movie, save time and not have extra 20mins of garbage not assembled
yet.

So the source clips are the same and both the good and bad come from same master project, renamed to shortened projects.

That side by sidecompare image is the opening, huge diff in quality. Please help if you can.


Filename	PD13MysteryLowQualityCompare.png	Download
Description
Filesize	2328 Kbytes
Downloaded:	29 time(s)

Carl312

Senior Contributor Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline

Jan 19, 2016 16:43

All that I can observe about the two images, is the one on the Left is a lower bitrate than the image on the Right. For some reason the Produce module is rendering the image at a lower bit rate sometimes and a higher bit rate other times.

That is assuming you are producing every time at 1920x1080 60i @16Mbps.

Best it you produce at 1920x1080/60p @ greater than 28Mbps.

You can compare the video with MediaInfo for the Resolution, bit rates, frame rate, interlaced or Progressive. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Darp1

Member Location: USA Joined: Nov 18, 2013 10:13 Messages: 122 Offline

Jan 19, 2016 19:47

I just produced the master file, runing it for a min, then pausing, copying file (WMVs work fine even if still being written) then canceling the produce, which makes original WMV dissapear. That same title is HQ.

The only thing can think of is when have Saved As, new shortened project, had put the tail 2 mins in first then copied (use select box to grab) from Master the first 18 mins, as opposed to just renaming the whole files, then cutting off tail 20 mins, then copying in the 2 min section from another project.

Just proved that is it.

Did it in opposite order (original), copied entire project to new name, cut off 20 min tail, then copied in (rectangular select on timeline) the 2 min tail from another project and the whole thing produces at high quality.

Anyone else experience this?

Darp1

Member Location: USA Joined: Nov 18, 2013 10:13 Messages: 122 Offline

Jan 19, 2016 19:53

Quote: All that I can observe about the two images, is the one on the Left is a lower bitrate than the image on the Right. For some reason the Produce module is rendering the image at a lower bit rate sometimes and a higher bit rate other times.

That is assuming you are producing every time at 1920x1080 60i @16Mbps.

Best it you produce at 1920x1080/60p @ greater than 28Mbps.

You can compare the video with MediaInfo for the Resolution, bit rates, frame rate, interlaced or Progressive.

Hi Carl,

Thanks for your input. I am doing 1080/30p 10 mbps in WMV, as for broadcast can not send that much to tower anyway. But will try the 28mbps just tp see how big it is. 70% of my source videos are 480. not shooting assembling older videos into story.

Just posted my findings, very wierd. It seems to be the order, if I cut the tail and paste in tail it goes HQ, if start with tail and paste in beginning, it goes LQ even though same file size produced and exact same produce settings used.

At least know the pattern now, but it is a bug.

WMV does not go 60p 25mbps, so am rendering in MP2 at 25mbps to see if titles are noticably better. It finished, it was twice teh size and I can not see the diff, as everything but titles is 480 or 720.

Thanks again for your kind help on this forum.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 19. 2016 20:39

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Jan 19, 2016 22:47

Quote: This one really has me going. After years of using PD (this is PD13)
never have seen it. I will produce and suddenly get low
quality video in titles and some parts, yet it is produced at exact
same output as high quality output, AND the file size is the same
(about 900megs for 18 mins.

Any chance you could pack your project and post with a good and bad pds file to a shared drive? Or at least a representative project that's a subset of what you have that has the same LQ/HQ issue.

I've seen the wmv encoding be somewhat sensitive to timeline content. Your numbers to me don't make sense and mimic that effect. The 1920x1080/30p 10Mbps WMV profile you are using is not consistent with the numbers above, 900MB for 18min is a total bitrate of only ~6.6Mbps, not the 10Mbps from the profile. That 40% difference is a fairly large LQ/HQ differentiator, especially on text. If the timeline has significant picture and/or titles vs video duration can also cause that.

I took a 18 min timeline as yours and get 1335MB which to me makes sense, a total audio and video bitrate of ~9.9Mbps.

I'm suspecting your LQ and HQ is actually two different bitrates, at least locally in the area of these text boxes that makes the encoded clarity different.

Jeff

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 20. 2016 08:02

James Dotson

Senior Contributor Location: Tennessee Joined: Aug 24, 2009 20:40 Messages: 3066 Offline

Jan 20, 2016 03:14

In the past when I had problems with image quality in pictures I created a custom profile using a constant bitrate. May create a slightly bigger file, but it fixed the problem. Of course, that doesn't address the underlying cause. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Jan 20, 2016 08:01

Quote: In the past when I had problems with image quality in pictures I created a custom profile using a constant bitrate. May create a slightly bigger file, but it fixed the problem. Of course, that doesn't address the underlying cause.

For WMV which is the discussion of OP?

Jeff

Darp1

Member Location: USA Joined: Nov 18, 2013 10:13 Messages: 122 Offline

Jan 21, 2016 15:25

Hello, JL and Jaime, Thanks for info. I thought had a workaround, till just now. Simply took the master project, cut the tail half of it off, that's it, no paste.

Then produced at 1080-30p-10mbps WMV (same) and again the first title I did the stills of here, went LQ??? Most of the project is still HQ, it seems things out of the titler which are then integrated into video have this bizarre problem. The titles overlaid on separate layer keep HQ in the "produce" that has the LQ problem.

BTW a tip. I used the power tools to speed the audio 6% and on cuts on that track, get a "snap" sound on transition. That is why just did the produce, to see if "snap" gets produced. Good news it does not. And this "snap" only happens on modified speed audio, if speed not altered, there is no snap on cuts.

I will try to get a packed project here, but am leaving office soon.

Thanks again.

Darp1

Member Location: USA Joined: Nov 18, 2013 10:13 Messages: 122 Offline

Jan 23, 2016 14:18

It gets worse, was going to shorten down a project with the problem and without, so easy to upload here. So created only first 30 secs or so version or 20 min with HQ, that worked fine, Then went to the exact same project that had LQ problem.

Being extra careful, produced it again before changing it (shortening it) for 30 secs or so, paused it, looked at WMV, and its HQ??!! in same title. The same project that outputted LQ on prior produce, wow.

Will wait for next LQ produce issue to show up, then shorten it to 30 secs, make sure still LQ then send both here.

Thanks again for all of your helpful expertise here.

And for the record, the output is always the same WMV 10mbps, in fact have been in same session without touching settings thru this issue.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 23. 2016 14:20

Darp1

Member Location: USA Joined: Nov 18, 2013 10:13 Messages: 122 Offline

Jan 23, 2016 14:27

A Related question, if you have a 20 min video on timeline with 40 mins in the "media content" box and you shorten it to just 30 seconds on the timeline and produce it, then Pack Project, will that packed project still be huge, have all 40 mins in the media content box?

In other words, is there no point in shortening it on timeline/produce to reduce transport size?

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Jan 23, 2016 14:36

Quote: A Related question, if you have a 20 min video on timeline with 40 mins in the "media content" box and you shorten it to just 30 seconds on the timeline and produce it, then Pack Project, will that packed project still be huge, have all 40 mins in the media content box?

In other words, is there no point in shortening it on timeline/produce to reduce transport size?

That is correct, any video file on the timeline will be included in the pack, even if it was trimmed, the whole file from which it was trimmed will be included. But only the media file used in the timeline, not other content that maybe in your media library.

Jeff

Darp1

Member Location: USA Joined: Nov 18, 2013 10:13 Messages: 122 Offline

Jan 23, 2016 14:49

OK I have now gone back to the last 8 produces, and all come out HQ, I can not get LQ even trying.

It makes one think an external factor is tripping this issue, such as another app being open, the RAM being lower something like that. Has anyone ever seen a Produce issue triggered by a factor outside PD?

Update, I have 16G ram, and just checked, PD using 3.2, Chrome 1.8 all else maybe 1G, if I see LQ again will check Task Manager again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 23. 2016 14:55

Darp1

Member Location: USA Joined: Nov 18, 2013 10:13 Messages: 122 Offline

Jan 23, 2016 14:51

Quote:

Quote: A Related question, if you have a 20 min video on timeline with 40 mins in the "media content" box and you shorten it to just 30 seconds on the timeline and produce it, then Pack Project, will that packed project still be huge, have all 40 mins in the media content box?

In other words, is there no point in shortening it on timeline/produce to reduce transport size?

That is correct, any video file on the timeline will be included in the pack, even if it was trimmed, the whole file from which it was trimmed will be included. But only the media file used in the timeline, not other content that maybe in your media library.

Jeff

Good that would work well as only maybe 2 mins of video sourced from the 30 secs in timeline. Glad to hear.

Thanks

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Jan 23, 2016 14:55

Quote: OK I have now gone back to the last 8 produces, and all come out HQ, I can not get LQ even trying.

It makes one think an external factor is tripping this issue, such as another app being open, the RAM being lower something like that. Has anyone ever seen a Produce issue triggered by a factor outside PD?

I 100% totally doubt RAM. Conflict with something else, possible.

Here is an occurance where PD13 randomly creates a different length file from the exact same timeline, even repeated by others. http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/45376.page#234211 Not a WMV produce but still, something that shouldn't simply occur and somewhat similar to your maybe random HQ/LQ issue.

Jeff

Darp1

Member Location: USA Joined: Nov 18, 2013 10:13 Messages: 122 Offline

Jan 23, 2016 15:12

Quote:

Quote: OK I have now gone back to the last 8 produces, and all come out HQ, I can not get LQ even trying.

It makes one think an external factor is tripping this issue, such as another app being open, the RAM being lower something like that. Has anyone ever seen a Produce issue triggered by a factor outside PD?

I 100% totally doubt RAM. Conflict with something else, possible.

Here is an occurance where PD13 randomly creates a different length file from the exact same timeline, even repeated by others. http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/45376.page#234211 Not a WMV produce but still, something that shouldn't simply occur and somewhat similar to your maybe random HQ/LQ issue.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. 2 things can happen, it will never repeat(OK with that) or next time it happens will immediately Pack The Project full length, then shorten and if that still has LQ send the project here, or send bigger one with issue.