Best SSD layout for PD13?

tpallred1

Newbie Joined: Jul 20, 2015 14:51 Messages: 45 Offline

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Jul 29, 2015 20:14

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ftTTf7

I'm building a system for 4K editing and was looking for advice about drive configurations for best performance in this SATA III system. Based on my reading thus far, here is the current plan.

Samsung 850 EVO 500GB for OS

Samsung 850 EVO 250GB for Applications

Samsung 859 EVO 120GB for scratch/working files

Seagate 7200 3TB HD to hold media files not currently being worked on

500GB for OS because my current Win7 system has 318GB used on the main drive, only 20GB of which are in the program folders, and I'd rather be looking at it than looking for it when it comes to the main drive. 250GB for the Apps mostly because it's faster than the 120GB. Could make the same speed argument for 250GB instead of 120GB for the scratch/working media drive, so maybe. I'd read that having all three components on separate drives was faster but can't remember if that was for standard HDs, SSDs, or both. Especially with SSDs, because of the lifetime write limit, it seems like having an easily replaceable and non-critical scratch drive with lots of reads/writes would make sense. I'll be using an external 5TB HD for backups.

Is this overkill? Maybe just one SSD for OS/Apps and a second for the scratch drive? Any thoughts? Tom
i7-4790K, Asus Z97-A, 16GB RAM, GTX 960, SSDs, Monoprice 28" 4K CrystalPro, Acer 23" 1080p H236HL - Full system at http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kYxw23

jcardana

Senior Contributor Location: USA-NM Joined: Aug 04, 2014 10:11 Messages: 650 Offline

Jul 30, 2015 18:44

My quick note...

If you're going to install applications on a separate drive, I suggest swapping the 500 & 250. Put the OS on the 250. In addition, create a "Storage" folder and use it instead of your "Documents". That's my preference but not everyone shares it.

My Window folder is only using 20GB. However, combining all folders used by windows, I'm looking at 125GB. That's including the Users, ProgramData, Windows etc.

When using drives properly, "Windows" will work fine with ~100GB providing you don't fill up Program Files and Program Files (x86) with stuff and keep your documents out of your "Documents" folder.

For easy navigation, I separate Applications and Utilities. To me Applications are programs that produce something, Word, PowerPoint, PDR13. Utilities, like my drfrag software, Process Explorer and Virtual Drive software don't produce anything.

I hope I didn't confuse you further. If I did, just ignore me

AlS

Senior Member Location: South Africa Joined: Sep 23, 2014 18:07 Messages: 290 Offline

Jul 31, 2015 05:34

jcardana
Thanks I am a bit confused - but that is not unusual at my age.
My PC config is below. I want to use my SSD for Win 8.1 and PDR13 with Office, etc installed on my HD. Plus my Virtual memory for Windows.
I assume your Storage folder is on your SSD but documents are on your HD - how did you do that?
I created a Programs folder on my HD and install all other software there (program files but don't have an (x86) folder for 32 bit apps.
So far everything is working OK but I'm not sure if I've done it right. Also will Win 10 upgrade see my apps on the HD if my Win8.1 is on the SSD (C: drive)??
Thanks Al

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 31. 2015 05:35

Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

jcardana

Senior Contributor Location: USA-NM Joined: Aug 04, 2014 10:11 Messages: 650 Offline

Jul 31, 2015 09:26

DELETED... I'm answering the questions of one person on the configuration of another

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jul 31. 2015 15:00

jcardana

Senior Contributor Location: USA-NM Joined: Aug 04, 2014 10:11 Messages: 650 Offline

Jul 31, 2015 09:33

Deleted

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jul 31. 2015 15:00

jcardana

Senior Contributor Location: USA-NM Joined: Aug 04, 2014 10:11 Messages: 650 Offline

Jul 31, 2015 09:43

deleted

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 31. 2015 15:00

jcardana

Senior Contributor Location: USA-NM Joined: Aug 04, 2014 10:11 Messages: 650 Offline

Jul 31, 2015 15:14

Quote: My PC config is below.

OK, I'm looking at the correct config now

Quote: I want to use my SSD for Win 8.1

OK

Quote: and PDR13 with Office, etc installed on my HD

OK

Quote: Plus my Virtual memory for Windows.

ON the HDD? No, put it on the SSD. (See VirtualMemory). You may get faster results if you split the file over your two HDDs. That's what I should be doing, but... not

Quote: I assume your Storage folder is on your SSD but documents are on your HD - how did you do that?

I don't have an SSD. My profile still has the "Documents" folder, I just don't save anything there. Apperently Cyberlink does. (See AnadracDrives)

Quote: I created a Programs folder on my HD and install all other software there (program files but don't have an (x86) folder for 32 bit apps.

OK, if you're running a 32bit CPU, you won't have the (x86) folder.

Quote: So far everything is working OK but I'm not sure if I've done it right.

There is no right or wrong, it's a matter of is it working for you.

Quote: Also will Win 10 upgrade see my apps on the HD if my Win8.1 is on the SSD (C: drive)??

Yes, won't be an issue.


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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jul 31. 2015 15:23

jcardana

Senior Contributor Location: USA-NM Joined: Aug 04, 2014 10:11 Messages: 650 Offline

Jul 31, 2015 15:56

Quote: I'm building a system for 4K editing and was looking for advice about drive configurations

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Jul 31, 2015 18:37

SSD will NOT bring any speed improvement. The bottleneck is somewhere else in this software, the HDD read/write rate are so low that even a laptop HDD can keep up with it.

See below my RAID5 HDD (D drive) during encoding of a 1080p H264 video with a 6 core/12 thread CPU and GTX 960 hardware acceleration. My C drive is a SSD. HDD usage is below 1MB/s (716kB/s). Any HDD is capable of minimum 40-50MB/s (mine can do 110 MB/s).

Just get a SSD for the OS and software. Don't put any temp files on SSD, it will wear it out. Cancel the virtual memory, just get enough RAM!


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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at Jul 31. 2015 18:49

tpallred1

Newbie Joined: Jul 20, 2015 14:51 Messages: 45 Offline

Jul 31, 2015 22:00

Quote: SSD will NOT bring any speed improvement. The bottleneck is somewhere else in this software, the HDD read/write rate are so low that even a laptop HDD can keep up with it.

See below my RAID5 HDD (D drive) during encoding of a 1080p H264 video with a 6 core/12 thread CPU and GTX 960 hardware acceleration. My C drive is a SSD. HDD usage is below 1MB/s (716kB/s). Any HDD is capable of minimum 40-50MB/s (mine can do 110 MB/s).

Just get a SSD for the OS and software. Don't put any temp files on SSD, it will wear it out. Cancel the virtual memory, just get enough RAM!

I see what you are saying. So even though the HD access light is constant the amount of data transfer is minimal. Hmmm. Well, easy enough to start out using the HD for data files and checking the results. But one drive for OS and apps? Pretty much every information source for video editing I've read says to put them on separate drives. Wonder what the genesis for that is and why it persists? Tom
i7-4790K, Asus Z97-A, 16GB RAM, GTX 960, SSDs, Monoprice 28" 4K CrystalPro, Acer 23" 1080p H236HL - Full system at http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kYxw23

tpallred1

Newbie Joined: Jul 20, 2015 14:51 Messages: 45 Offline

Jul 31, 2015 22:03

Quote:

Quote: I'm building a system for 4K editing and was looking for advice about drive configurations

Off topic, but if your buying the Kensington mouse... have you seen their trackballs? I have the slim blade and love it. So does my dad and brother and a 90 year old lady I know.

It's kind of funny. You're the third person to comment on the mouse and/or keyboard. The truth is that I picked those pretty much at random to fill in the slots. I've got enough of both to make several systems.

Tom
i7-4790K, Asus Z97-A, 16GB RAM, GTX 960, SSDs, Monoprice 28" 4K CrystalPro, Acer 23" 1080p H236HL - Full system at http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kYxw23

CV27

Member Joined: Feb 13, 2011 13:51 Messages: 77 Offline

Aug 01, 2015 00:17

Quote: SSD will NOT bring any speed improvement. The bottleneck is somewhere else in this software ...

That's a pretty wide statement. SSD brought me tremendous speed improvement versus my previous 3 x ST3500320AS in RAID 5: I've got the benchmarks to prove it.

But you do have a valid point saying "The bottleneck is somewhere else in this software". I don't see outrageous resource usage with PD13 on editing tasks, but it's soooo slow still; it's certainly not IO intensive. PD13 internal architecture must have something to do with this.

When in Create mode on the other hand, I find PD13 uses all 8 of my cores at max, but still limits itself at 1.5-2 GB of memory, with very little disc IO's. I don't use HW assist. I7-4770, 3.40Ghz, 16GB RAM, Asus Z87-Plus Z87chipset, Sapphire ATI Radeon HD7850 PCI Express-16 3.0 2GB, Samsung EVO 840 SSD 1TB

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Aug 01, 2015 15:33

I think it's related to some internal software latency issues.
For HW acceleration, I hope the new DirectX12 and WDDM 2.0 in Windows 10 will help (in future) lowering those latencies.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2900814/tested-directx-12s-potential-performance-leap-is-insane.html

GGRussell

Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline

Aug 01, 2015 22:04

But does PD13 use DirectX for anything at all? Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA

tpallred1

Newbie Joined: Jul 20, 2015 14:51 Messages: 45 Offline

Aug 02, 2015 08:10

Quote: But does PD13 use DirectX for anything at all?

I know when I filed a support ticket once they wanted the directx error log, so I'm guessing "yes". Tom
i7-4790K, Asus Z97-A, 16GB RAM, GTX 960, SSDs, Monoprice 28" 4K CrystalPro, Acer 23" 1080p H236HL - Full system at http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kYxw23

Julien Pierre

Contributor Joined: Apr 14, 2011 01:34 Messages: 476 Offline

Aug 02, 2015 20:09

Quote: SSD will NOT bring any speed improvement. The bottleneck is somewhere else in this software, the HDD read/write rate are so low that even a laptop HDD can keep up with it.

It may not bring improvements during the encode phase, but it will certainly do so during the editing phase. SSD has very low access time, so when you jump to another part of a clip, it speeds things up.

Personally I use two SSD in RAID 0 for my C: drive, with the OS and all programs.

They are a pair of 128GB SSD - making a 256GB volume. I have had them for many years.

For storage, I have a pair of 2TB HDDs also in RAID 0, making a 4TB volume.

I usually have my projects on the HDD array, though it's not the fastest . Seek time is doubled in a RAID 0 array with two drives.

Some day when the $/GB on SSDs drops low enough, I may upgrade to all SSD for project storage too. I saw a 960 GB SSD for $314 at Fry's today. That's tempting. It's big enough for all my video projects to date. MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

Julien Pierre

Contributor Joined: Apr 14, 2011 01:34 Messages: 476 Offline

Aug 02, 2015 20:10

Quote:

Quote: I'm building a system for 4K editing and was looking for advice about drive configurations

Off topic, but if your buying the Kensington mouse... have you seen their trackballs? I have the slim blade and love it. So does my dad and brother and a 90 year old lady I know.

Second the Kensington mouse. I use the Expert Mouse. It's a large trackball, but very ergonomic. MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

CV27

Member Joined: Feb 13, 2011 13:51 Messages: 77 Offline

Aug 02, 2015 20:57

Quote: ... Some day when the $/GB on SSDs drops low enough, I may upgrade to all SSD for project storage too. I saw a 960 GB SSD for $314 at Fry's today. That's tempting. It's big enough for all my video projects to date.

Short term, go for the NAND SSD, but check the transfer rates: not all SSD's are created equal. But if you can wait for the 3D Xpoint (3D XPoint technology and AnandTech) ... I7-4770, 3.40Ghz, 16GB RAM, Asus Z87-Plus Z87chipset, Sapphire ATI Radeon HD7850 PCI Express-16 3.0 2GB, Samsung EVO 840 SSD 1TB

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Aug 02, 2015 21:59

Quote:

Quote: SSD will NOT bring any speed improvement. The bottleneck is somewhere else in this software, the HDD read/write rate are so low that even a laptop HDD can keep up with it.

It may not bring improvements during the encode phase, but it will certainly do so during the editing phase. SSD has very low access time, so when you jump to another part of a clip, it speeds things up.

Did you test that?

Let me share my experience: I had made a RAM-disk. That's faster than my SSD or my RAID HDD. I didn't feel any improvement in editing speed compared to the HDD.