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Advice needed for matching exposures for multicam clips
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5444 Offline
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Hi gang

I just recorded my daughter's concert with 2 cameras and I don't like the contrast/exposure from one of them. It's fairly overexposed due to the bright stage lights and very dark background, and I'm trying to get it closer to matching my main camera so there isn't such a big change when switching cameras/angles.

I haven't used the native or NewBlue FX controls for adjusting exposure, contrast, highlights, etc. very much, and after spending about two hours exploring every one I could think of, I'm still not happy with the results and I'm hoping someone with more experience can help.

I've attached screenshots from each camera, and here's a *link* to two short sample clips that show the challenge I'm facing. Does anyone know of a quick adjustment that would bring the clips from my stationary camera closer to what the main camera recorded?
 Filename
stationary.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
matching screenshot from stationary cam
 Filesize
170 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
93 time(s)
 Filename
main.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
screenshot from main camera clip
 Filesize
136 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
87 time(s)


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CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
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Hi

I know what you're facing. Been there, done that. My other editor has a 'Match Preferences' which makes it much easier. HELLO CL!

In the meantime I've used ColorDirector to almost perfectly match my two camera shoots as there is more color and light settings to choose from. I then Produce that clip(s) and save them as close to the original file(s) wtih the initials CG (color graded) on the end.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jun 04. 2015 06:54

Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9795 Offline
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Hi optodata -

I gave it a workout in CDR too, but I think I went a bit overboard killing off the brights.

Have a look at this - http://directorzone.cyberlink.com/detail/124824397 - it's a start anyway. I haven't yet tried to match it with the other clip in MC Designer.

Do you have CDR? If so, you'll see the settings I changed on the DZ page. If not you could download it as a preset for PDR... then modify it.

Cheers - Tony
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9795 Offline
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*This* one's not quite so fierce laughing
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5444 Offline
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Thanks very much Neil and Tony!

I do have Director Suite but I haven't ever used CDR, so I've downloaded both templates and will give them a shot. The controls in CDR looks very similar to PhD, so this definitely looks like the right way to go.

Thanks again for the tips



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Hi optodata

I thought this was something I could do *** Orchestra *** Using PD13 Ultimate, I used the HDR function to try and gain a bit more detail in the burnt out highlights

Here are the **settings**



N.B. just re-checked the "settings" and it appears that the HDR settings don't appear!


Cheers

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at Jun 04. 2015 13:39

I just want to edit and make pictures, walk my dog and go fishing.
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Hey guys...I don't have color director...didn't buy that package, I guess. Would it be worth my purchase?

What I'm doing now is pretty much the same as what Cubby is doing, but using the settings available in PD13. "Love one another." -- JC
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Quote: Hey guys...I don't have color director...didn't buy that package, I guess. Would it be worth my purchase?

What I'm doing now is pretty much the same as what Cubby is doing, but using the settings available in PD13.


Hi Rex

I use the Cyberlink PhotoDirector (which is part of the "Ultimate" package) it's a little bit like Light Room. I find it a very useful program and enjoy using it. The ColourDirector has a similar feel to PhotoDirector. I find that my PC is lacking enough power to really get to grips with this bit of software even so, I still use it !Both programs are not cheap versions of Adobe software .. BUT please try the trial versions that are available aso you can make up your own mind.cool

Good luck I just want to edit and make pictures, walk my dog and go fishing.
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 5319 Offline
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Hi optodata,

That looks like your first experience shooting of a school indoor stage performance of a band concert, talent show, or play. You have 3 more years to get it right. Need to avoid auto exposure in these situations. I shot my child's school performance recently. Use manual exposure for the global camera if possible. My second camera of the stage is set to auto with a -2 f-stop exposure setting in recording the entire performance. The main camcorder is set manually for spotlight and reduced gamma settings for recording. You see details in both light and dark faces and in the black uniforms they wear in the two raw screenshots.

The captured video from the second camera(Nikon) recorded at -2 will be processed with a different software with filters to increase the detail in the black uniform and in the highlightss to match my main camera much like what CubbyHouse said about his other editor. The produced file will then be exported to PD13 for further editing. See the original high contrast in the raw Nikon screenshot. I see that Tony is reducing the exposure in your second camera setting by -1.7 and adjusting the shadows and midtones also in colordirector.

The main camera need no further enhancement processing as you see details in all faces and uniforms in both the global and closeup raw screenshots.

Experience is best teacher and you'll get it right next time. Overexposed or blown highlight cannot be recovered.

Let us know if this info help prepare you for the next indoor performance.
 Filename
vlcsnap-2015-06-04-11h50m33s175.png
[Disk]
 Description
2nd camera(Nikon)raw at -2 f-stop need adustments to midtones
 Filesize
2181 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
90 time(s)
 Filename
SnapShot(14).jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Main camcorder raw global showing exposure & details
 Filesize
171 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
82 time(s)
 Filename
SnapShot(15).jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Main camcorder raw closeup showing exposure & details.
 Filesize
224 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
89 time(s)
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 5319 Offline
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Look like Kyle 40 also did a wonderful job on the screenshot seen on his YT video. The girl and the piano looks great after the adjustment!!!

It looks like there are many great tools out there that will help. Highlight healing can be tried too along with other adjustments.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5444 Offline
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Quote: Hi optodata

I thought this was something I could do *** Orchestra *** Using PD13 Ultimate, I used the HDR function to try and gain a bit more detail in the burnt out highlights.
Cheers
Thanks for your effort! I was actually able to open your PhD settings in CDR and saw lots more detail than in my original clip. There was a warning in CDR when I applied that preset stating something like "some settings might not be imported from PhD profiles," and I did have to play around with the settings a bit to get it to better match my main camera, but I'm happy with the results

The only issue I have is that it's taking an incredibly long time to produce. I know there's a ton of processing to do on each frame, but it's taken 20 minutes to get 10% of the way through a single 2GB/11:30 clip and I have 11 clips to processyell I can't use HW encoding here because it seems to put in an out-of-order frame every now and then, so any motion that's occuring then will show a momentary backwards glitch. I've seen that in PD occasionally as well, and come to think of it - it's usually during a prolonged effect - so I guess it shouldn't be surprising to see it here, too.

I may have to go back to PD and see if I can get it to produce something similar much, much faster, but I'm not sure it can even be done without HDR.

Quote: Hi optodata,That looks like your first experience shooting of a school indoor stage performance of a band concert, talent show, or play. You have 3 more years to get it right.
Actually, I've recorded every concert at my kids' middle school for the past 6 years, and my daughter is graduating from 8th grade in a couple of weeks so I don't have any more chances. Most of the concerts were recorded with a single camera and there weren't any issues like this.

Need to avoid auto exposure in these situations. I shot my child's school performance recently. Use manual exposure for the global camera if possible. My second camera of the stage is set to auto with a -2 f-stop exposure setting in recording the entire performance...
I'm sure that would have helped. I had to set up my stationary cameras and hit the Record buttons* before people even got on stage, and clearly the programmed AE mode on my 4-yr-old Canon HF S200 leaves something to be desired even though it worked noticeably better the previous times.

* I actually set up two stationary cameras last night, but somehow the camera at stage left apparently turned off after as soon as I hit the record button and closed the viewfinder. So I lost a third of my multicam footage, but maybe I should be happy that I don't have to process another 2 hours of poorly exposed clips...

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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 5319 Offline
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I have looked at one of your 2014 Bayside school videos. It exhibit the same blown out highlights in your global shots. Overall it is not noticeable because you have lots of zoomed in or close up shots where your camcorder exposure meters more faces than the dark background. See the screenshot.

Your Camcorder manual shows many options to fix all this. See this link: http://downloads.canon.com/cpr/software/video/Canon_VIXIA_HFS20_HFS21_HFS200_Instruction_Manual.pdf . Page 62 Spotlight option at the bottom of the page is what you need. Page 152 show you how to access it from the camcorder menu. This is a good option to use for your main camera on the next concert. I use it myself and get no blown highlights.

Page 74 show you how to do manual exposure for highlights. Page 75 show you how to set manual focus. These would be great options for a stationary camera where lighting and subject distance doesn't change.

Hope you maybe try out some of this on your next indoor concert. You can be a pro in all this. Just take time...

Let us know if this might help the next time...

P.S. In the past I have left a pc on overnight to do video processing on a video. If you feel that Kyle 40 has the best option maybe try it on just part of one clip first to see if it is worth it.
 Filename
2014Bay.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Blown highlight in global shot on previous recording.
 Filesize
287 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
83 time(s)
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Quote: Thanks for your effort! I was actually able to open your PhD settings in CDR and saw lots more detail than in my original clip. There was a warning in CDR when I applied that preset stating something like "some settings might not be imported from PhD profiles," and I did have to play around with the settings a bit to get it to better match my main camera, but I'm happy with the results


The only issue I have is that it's taking an incredibly long time to produce. I know there's a ton of processing to do on each frame, but it's taken 20 minutes to get 10% of the way through a single 2GB/11:30 clip and I have 11 clips to processyell I can't use HW encoding here because it seems to put in an out-of-order frame every now and then, so any motion that's occuring then will show a momentary backwards glitch. I've seen that in PD occasionally as well, and come to think of it - it's usually during a prolonged effect - so I guess it shouldn't be surprising to see it here, too.......


Hi optodata I'm pleased you've been able to improve on the results. Long processing times etc., are a a big frustration for me even with a(n older!) nvidia card. I'm sure that my CPU is doing all the work but only using about 20% of its capablitycry

c'mon Cyberlink pull yer fingers out!

cheers I just want to edit and make pictures, walk my dog and go fishing.
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Quote: Look like Kyle 40 also did a wonderful job on the screenshot seen on his YT video. The girl and the piano looks great after the adjustment!!!

It looks like there are many great tools out there that will help. Highlight healing can be tried too along with other adjustments.


Thanks tomasc I just want to edit and make pictures, walk my dog and go fishing.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5444 Offline
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Kyle 40 Your settings in the YT clip were great! I didn't really improve on your results as much as try to get the clips in ColorDirector to match what you accomplished in PhotoDirector. In CDR, the results were far harsher than what PhD gave you, and just I worked to tone down them down.

In the end, however, I decided to use Tony's OPTO II preset because PhD was taking so long to produce. CDR has been running for 9 1/2 hours now with those settings and is 73% finished, whereas I'd be somewhere near 30% if I was using the modified PhD profile.

tomasc Thanks for the details and even looking up the steps in the manual. Talk about above and beyond!

As I said, I had to set up the stationary cameras before the show starts and unfortunately there often isn't anything suitable to calibrate the highlight function or exposure to. On my main GF S30, I could do those things but it also does a better job of managing the exposure. Now if I only had a couple of volunteers to help run things, I'd have it made in the shade! cool

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