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2nd hard drive, for assets. Better performance?
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BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6156 Offline
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I am looking to improve performance a bit on my Phoenix.

I am under the impression that by keeping my assets on an internal drive, other than C (where my programs reside), I will get substantially better performance. To be clear, both drives will be spinning 7,200rpm drives.

Sure, I'd like an SSD but I am scared to death of attempting to move my Windows and quite a large number of programs.

So, will that 2nd hardrive give me a bump in performance for PD? I need to get it anyway for backups, so the question is somewhat academic. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)/Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/7,200rpm/w10x64---
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5. Tape capture using 4 VCR, TBC, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
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James1
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi Barry,

I have an asus p67le motherboard (intel i7 3.5 gh) and 16GB memory. I have installed two 1.5terabyte hard drive one for programs and the second for my work (image, videos etc) the PD program is on C; Drive the other drive is for my 'work be it graphic of video files and haven't noticed any drawbacks as to speed.

Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

Visit GranPapa64's channel for your YouTube experience of the day!
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BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6156 Offline
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Bump...an increase in performance is what I am asking, assuming that using a single drive forces the system to seek programming and assets at the same time from the same drive. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)/Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/7,200rpm/w10x64---
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5. Tape capture using 4 VCR, TBC, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
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James1
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi Barry,

Ah...I found that the second hardrive (altho' I have a no sleep setting) it does go to sleep mode and take a second or two to wake up. I have not any way to asses if it increases performance as I have always had extra drives in my machines.

Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

Visit GranPapa64's channel for your YouTube experience of the day!
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Eugen157
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 662 Offline
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I have been video editing on a pc for at least 15 years and noticed early on that there is an overall improvement in speed when using two hard drives, one for the program, and other for the video.

I am editing 4K now for a year, larger files etc, so using more than one drive is even more important.



Over the 15 years the following has evolved, 5 computers later.



My computer has 3 internal drives connected to the mother board

All three drives are plug in and can be replaced in the time it takes to shut down and reboot, using inexpensive mobile racks made by Connectland.

One of these holds the main drive, partitioned into C D and E. The C hold the operating system, PD13 operating program only and a few other important programs. PD13 items like "SAVE PROJECT" are stored on partition D including "AUTOSAVE" . D or E also holds Window stuff like "MY PICTURES" "MY DOCUMENTS" ETC ETC.

Every time a new program is installed that gives me the option to install elswere, it winds up in D or E. This keeps C uncluttered and fast at start up. C D and E total only 250Gb 7200 RPM and is physicall a 2" drive mounted in an 3" adaptor.



An external USB3 "Probox" holds 4 more drives, all partitioned with names like "RAW 4K VIDEO" "RAW HD VIDEO" "ACRONIS BACKUPS" "FINISHED VIDEOS" ETC. These are active when editing or when making weekly backups of C D and E using Acronis TruImage.

In addition I use a USB3 docking station that will receive either a 2" or 3" hard drive. It is used to clone the CDE drive every 2 weeks, I have two of the 250GB drives, they are kept up to date and used alternately after cloning. This takes about 30 minutes.

An inherant advantage of cloning is that the clone is defragged.



This has all evolved over the years, each change typically the result of some desaster, like a failed drive forcing me to install everything from scratch over a period of days. Once that happens, and it will in time to most of us, one becomes very religious.

One advantage of using the Connectland HD plugin device is the ability to use a seperate hard drive for editing only, installing nothing but the Window operating system and PD13 for a perfect , fast editing only system. This could be of use for those whoose C drive is hopelessly cluttered up with other programs and junk. This, coupled with an partitioned, external 2nd drive for video material would result in an editing system whose speed and stability is only limited by its program. (assuming a reasonably fast computer)

I have two computers using 4 plug in devices and have not had ANY problems with them. At under $20 each they are a bargain! Note that there are bays under $20 that enable the HD to be installed in a PC expansion slot and accessed and removed from the back of the PC.

Not to be overlooked are the advances in GPUs, like the GTX960 of whose existence I learned from SonicNice, that can take a big load of the CPU thus allowing speedy editing with lesser CPUs.

So the short answer to Barrys question is yes, at least in my experience.

Eugene

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Apr 06. 2015 15:02

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A
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BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6156 Offline
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Eugene,
see PM. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)/Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/7,200rpm/w10x64---
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5. Tape capture using 4 VCR, TBC, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6006 Offline
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Yes, there will be an increase in performance. There is less head shuffling of the hd heads I found over the years with source(read) files on one drive and destination(write) on another drive. The drives then should last longer.

I have always had a 2nd hard drive on any pc to do video. See the last pragraph ( 8 ) of this faq: http://howto.corel.com/en/p/Dropping_frames_in_Studio . A ssd is the way to go and is installed on most high end pc sold today. In the PD forums, those who have one don't want to go back to a regular hd. You'll see claims of windows boot up in 30 sec. or less and pd starts in seconds. All true for a new pc, of course. ssd reliability can range from bad (slower than hd after a few months) to (excellent) and 2x the life of a typical hd for those made today. See the user reviews before buying.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 06. 2015 13:54

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BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6156 Offline
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The drive is showing up in Speccy, and device manager, but not in my general computer interface. There is no drive letter. I might add I've never done this before.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 06. 2015 13:49

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)/Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/7,200rpm/w10x64---
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5. Tape capture using 4 VCR, TBC, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6006 Offline
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If you have already physically installed the second hard drive, then you must set at least one partition and format it. Use Windows Disc management. Depending on the brand of the new HD you purchased, you can download utilities that will do all this for you in minutes...
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BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6156 Offline
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My head hurts...



I finally got it, last thing is the debate over whether I should partition it to 2, 3, or 4 drive letters, and why.

Thank you to evryone who helped me through this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 06. 2015 14:46

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)/Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/7,200rpm/w10x64---
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5. Tape capture using 4 VCR, TBC, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
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Eugen157
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 662 Offline
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You could use different folders instead but I found that it is easier to maintain different partitiones. Mine, as mentioned, hold raw video, edited video, or C backups in different partitiones. They are easyly changed in terms of drive letter, name and size.

You do not have the potential slow down and fragmention issue of a single drive.

It is also my understanding that the higher drive letter is assigned to the outside of the platter, thus potentiall twice as fast as the inside= lower drive letter. Can be useful like in C drive if that drive is partitioned. Gives you some measure of control.

It is best done on an empty drive.



Eugene

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 06. 2015 15:26

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6006 Offline
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One of the reason people make multiple partitions on their new hd is the limitation in the os. win xp and newer 32 bit os have a limitation of 2TB if using windows disc management. You have no such limitation on your 64 bit os. It's your call. You never said what is the size your new hd. They do make 5 and 6 TB ones for less than $200.
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6006 Offline
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Just saw Eugen157 post after I replied. I am not worried about a fragmented hard drive. Win7 and later by default does a weekly defragging anyway unless the settings are changed. That is a good point. I don't backup to a partition within a hd anyway. Do my backup to an external hd. His needs are different. It's up to each individual.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 06. 2015 15:34

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BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6156 Offline
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I am sticking with 2TB drives across-the-board. I have an attached LG-NAS with 2@2TB drives (LAN), and now 2@2TB in the HP, that's plenty.
After I move my Libraries, I look forward to analyzing any uptick in performance.
This is a great forum, I'd like to thank each and everyone of you...
ThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyou...
-Steve Martin-comedian

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 07. 2015 19:42

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)/Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/7,200rpm/w10x64---
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5. Tape capture using 4 VCR, TBC, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
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Adding to all that has already been spoken.

Should consider that partition a hard drive, each partition will occupy a specific physical disk space, I think it makes better use of the media.

SSD worth installing at least for the system greatly improves, I used an application that you copied my old HD "C" for the SSD and everything worked.

They claim to be best to install everything from scratch on a SSD, but in my case I would take 2 or 3 days to install everything. AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate
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Barry – how much benefit you get all depends on your work flow and size of the footage (IO is a lot higher on high res video). If you produce to the same drive your read the video from - that also creates slowdowns.

I would definitely recommend putting your OS and PD application on an SSD. This makes Windows and PD work a lot faster. Also PD creates some files during editing (that is also faster).
Using a “scratch” SSD for your project would be ideal.

This is a GREAT video to watch to get a “feel” for the impact of different system components (including drives):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haP2aT_kpJo
Yes, Yes he uses Adobe, but some of the problems are found in all video editing software.

Your goal is to have your CPU be the bottleneck not your drives

These a 2 free programs you can use to move your c: drive to a new SSD drive.
This works only if your use less space on your C: drive than what you have available on the SSD and you don't have complicated partitions on your source drive.
Ideally you need access to another computer (to copy the drive), since it is not ideal to copy it while it is running.

Free programs to do it:
http://www.partitionwizard.com/free-partition-manager.html
http://www.easeus.com/backup-software/tb-free.html

Some how 2 to clone your drive:
http://www.howtogeek.com/97242/how-to-migrate-windows-7-to-a-solid-state-drive/
http://lifehacker.com/5837543/how-to-migrate-to-a-solid-state-drive-without-reinstalling-windows

A Clean install is always best (MUCH BETTER THAN A CLONE)!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 07. 2015 12:01

Win8.1 Pro x64 / Dual x5670 / 24GB / GTX960 4GB / 240GB SSD + 640GB HDD / PD13 Ultimate
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BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6156 Offline
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EKSVid,
you have vastly overestimated my computer literacy(and patience). Eleven minutes into that video and I was watching the pretty birdies outside my window.
Next time I have a few extra dollars, it'll go to the GEEK Squad and they can deal with the SSD and "scratch" drive thingy.

For now I'll leave my new 2TB drive as a single drive, unless someone tells me I absolutely should partition it so I can use one part as my scratch drive, whatever the heck that is, and how to aim the scratches to it. I'm an editor, not a computer expert.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 07. 2015 13:59

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)/Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/7,200rpm/w10x64---
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5. Tape capture using 4 VCR, TBC, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
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playvideo [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2011 08:09 Messages: 20 Offline
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BarryTheCrab


For large HD 1TB or more I recommend partition in 3 or 4 partitions, has some advantages, just the fact that at some point need to format only one partition and not all HD already justified.

I share what is shown on this site about HD.

http://www.tecmundo.com.br/backup/2618-mito-ou-verdade-particionar-o-hd-melhora-a-velocidade-.htm

-------

I have SSD with the system and programs.

2 HD 1TB, with 3 partitions each.

Each partition has a specific assignment.

Whenever I need to copy large files, do a HD to another HD, spending time is halved.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 07. 2015 14:54

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BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6156 Offline
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OK, forcryinoutloud, I'll look at this again.
I'll try to make my new J drive into 2 or 3 partitions.
Can I use one of them as a scratch drive? Should I? How do I aim the temp scratch files to it? Will it help performance?
There are no SSD in my near future, though I have 1 extra 500GB external drive I could probably take out of it's enclosure and put in the HP if that would be a better choice for scratch drive. I suppose writing temp files to something other than the OS system drive C is the goal? But if I aim them at the new J drive I just installed (with another partition called K) where I am keeping my video assets "J", does that defeat the purpose as I'll be writing temps and editing files from the same physical hard drive (J & K)?
Now even I cannot understand what the heck I'm writing. Did I mention I'm not a techie? I do hard construction and site work.
This is getting to be real work, and my budget and patience is limited.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 07. 2015 15:09

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)/Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/7,200rpm/w10x64---
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5. Tape capture using 4 VCR, TBC, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6006 Offline
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EKSVid - That YT video is pretty interesting. I think it would answer a lot of users questions on slow editing. The local high school here uses the premiere pro and photoshop mentioned in that video. The students here do the music and video productions and they learn to use the equipment and software so they are ready for the work world once they graduate without haveing to go to college. They have essentially the same classes at the junior college so the h.s. students here gets the same benefits. Thanks for posting the link.

BarryTheCrab - The formatting (word wrap) problems in the threads of this post can be fixed. It is caused by your above thread using the multiple run on words ThankyouThankyou without a space in beteen each one. This cause everyone's thread to look bad and need multiple scrolling. Fix your above thread and eveyone's thread here will be okay. See the attachment for details.
[Thumb - word wrap1.jpg]
 Filename
word wrap1.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Place a space between each Thankyou for word wrap
 Filesize
298 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
131 time(s)

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