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Cyberlink's Lack Of Knowledge With AMD Fluid Motion
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Jeff R 1 [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 09, 2010 14:05 Messages: 179 Offline
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Here's the question, how can Cyberlinks developers enable a function like AMD Fluid Motion and know absolutely nothing about the hardware that enables it.
This is my last unanswered question from Cyberlink support:

It's been very difficult collecting information on AMD Fluid Motion, if not impossible, I've posted in the AMD forum and started a support ticket there and even contacted Sapphire and have received no information.
It appears that in order to enable this function I would need a new AMD video card, but according to Korrigan's post I wouldn't need to update my processor to an AMD since he is using an i7.
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/39728.page

On another forum it was concluded that an "A" series processor is necessary as well as an AMD video card.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=4902299#post4902299

I don't mind spending money on a new video card, but it's going a bit far to buy a new processor and mother board.

So, do I need a new AMD processor as well ?

Any information on this is much appreciated.

It still remains unanswered...

So my MSI R9-290 came yesterday and it does work, but I found that one has to run a Blu-ray at 60Hz refresh rate for it to be enabled. So that means that somewhere along the way it's applying 3/2 pull down. If I set the refresh rate to 24 Hz, it doesn't work.
The function does not work AT ALL in Cinema mode, which I may create a support ticket to address this, but given the inability for Cyberlinks apparent lack of knowledge and interest in this matter _ well what's the point.
I am quite pissed off about that, it's like walking into a car dealership and having the salesman know nothing about the product, how fats it can goes, what fuel economy it gets etc.
You can just imagine the salesman saying "I have no idea about anything about the car, you'll just have to buy it find out for yourself". It's the same situation here...

It needs a high end video card for it to work, but I did find an article saying that an R7 series will work, but given the fact that my R9-290 is working quite hard (the fans ramp up a bit when it's enabled), I would go with a R9 series.

It's a matter of trade offs, the interpolation feature on my projector is better in some ways then AMD Fluid Motion is and vise-versa.
I don't think it warrants spending 500.00$ bucks on a new card, my Panasonic projector works just as well, so I may return the card.

If anyone is reading this and they have a interpolation feature on their display that they are happy with, I would say not to bother with Fluid Motion.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Sep 22. 2014 03:14

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Brian11 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 11, 2014 05:00 Messages: 5 Offline
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He jef,

Thanks for the info!
I tested it also with my intel cpu and amd 6870 gpu.
Amd fluid motion won't work with my setup.
I read somewhere that al cards from 6800 and a higher do the trick....maybe with a cpu of amd????

Another story for a video tool/setting in ccc (amd software) his steady video it only works with cpu/gpu combination of amd.

I use powerdvd 14 for mkv and dvd without hardware accl.
For bluray I use tmt 6 because I can watch without hardware accl.
My screen pq is better without hardware accl.

Grtz
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Jeff R 1 [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 09, 2010 14:05 Messages: 179 Offline
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Where you read that the 6800 card will do the trick is probably here:

http://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdvd-ultra/spec_en_CA.html

On there spec page _ which is out of date because according to this article you need at least the R7-2xx series and above.


http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Kaveri-APU-Highlights-Part-3-Dual-Graphics-TrueAudio-and-Fluid-Motion-Video-416847.shtml

This is where it becomes confusing, the article implies that one needs a Kaveri AMD processor as well to make things work _ well you don't. If you are gaming the Kaveri processor works with the R7 series GPU to run games better by allowing higher frame rates.

It also implies that the processor alone can run Fluid Motion, but it doesn't say that Fluid Motion can run with the just the R7 series card alone, that is why I went with an R9-290 card because I couldn't get any answers out of anybody, I wanted to make sure I had enough processing power to run Fluid Motion with the GPU alone since the my Intel processor isn't designed to work in tandem with the AMD GPU.

This is what bugs me, Cyberlink comes up with a new feature and doesn't (can't) tell anyone what's exactly required to run it.
I was just pointed to the spec page by customer service by some guy reading from a script who knows nothing about it.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Feb 29. 2016 03:46

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Brian11 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 11, 2014 05:00 Messages: 5 Offline
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The tech guys of powerdvd they work together with amd..they are supposed to inform us correctly!!
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Works just fine with my I7, as said above.
I7 + AMD 290x.

You definitely don't need an AMD processor for it.

And it is NORMAL that you have to use a higher refresh rate for Fluid Motion... because fluid motion upgrades the movie to that higher refresh rate, you have NO pulldown with fluid motion enabled.

Think about it, logically... you can't display more than 24 fps on a screen that displays only 24p, so fluid motion is impossible.

PS: and if you paid $500 for a 290 (we agree it's not a 290x right?), the vendor screwed you
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125505&cm_re=AMD_290-_-14-125-505-_-Product

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Sep 17. 2014 13:27

My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7
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Jeff R 1 [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 09, 2010 14:05 Messages: 179 Offline
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Yes on the drivers and the latest version of Power DVD _ it wouldn't work anyway with out the latest patch of Power DVD.
I found a better interpolation piece of software, but it takes a big GPU.
My GTX 760 was throttling itself at 80 degrees and causing problems. I'll probably get the 780 or 780ti to do the job.

As for price, I am in Canada so we pay more for things, plus the fact that Newegg here in Canada won't let us return high end video cards, even with a 15% restocking fee. We can only exchange for a defective product.

I bought mine from NCIX.ca, where I did end up returning it.

I'll write more when I get home, I'm at work right now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 17. 2014 13:35

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You still won't be able to interpolate a 24 fps movie displayed in 24p. To interpolate, you need additional frames, which means higher framerate on your display.

If you expect smooth results like with AMD Fluid Motion while using 24p, you're in for a disapointment no matter the method you use, because it's just not possible. My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7
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Jeff R 1 [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 09, 2010 14:05 Messages: 179 Offline
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OK, explain this then.
I can set my NVIDIA cards refresh rate to 23.976 refresh rate to match the native frame rate of a Blu-ray disc.
Input that into my projector which shows it as 1080 24p (it rounds it up, but it is still displaying 23.976 FPS)

I turn its frame interpolation feature on and it looks just as good as if I had chose a 60 HRZ refresh rate in the NVIDIA control panel.
Plus the fact that the projector still reports 1080 24p.

You can still interpolate frames at 24 fps, but the video is slowed down a bit depending on how many frames are interpolated in-between the original frames _ my AVR aromatically adjust the audio so things stay in sync.

Imagine a cartoonist drawing 24 frames to use up 1 second of film, if he wants his cartoon to look smoother he draws more drawings with in that given second, it still is 24 frames with in that second, but it will appear smoother because he's drawn smaller increments of a persons arm moving for example.

It depends how the algorithm is written as well, weather to interpolate 2, 4 or more frames in-between the original frames, from before and after.
The more frames that the algorithm demands the harder the processed has to work, weather it's CPU or GPU.

Fluid Motion is only adding 2 new frames into the mix and it still doesn't look that great _ to me anyway.

Do you have copy of "How To Train Your Dragon" ? If you do go to the scene where Hiccup is looking for toothless in the woods. There is a panning scene there of the woods that's a juddery mess. Fluid Motion almost takes care of it ( not enough frames interpolated). My projector is adding "four" I believe, and it's doing it all at 24 FPS.

Changing the refresh rate to 60 HRZ in the NVIDIA control makes no difference because the projector is still only working with the native 23.975 frames per second from the Blu-ray.

I guess it alll depend on how the algorithm was written.

This is the way I see it anyways.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 17. 2014 15:36

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Quote: OK, explain this then.
I can set my NVIDIA cards refresh rate to 23.976 refresh rate to match the native frame rate of a Blu-ray disc.
Input that into my projector which shows it as 1080 24p (it rounds it up, but it is still displaying 23.976 FPS)

I turn its frame interpolation feature on and it looks just as good as if I had chose a 60 HRZ refresh rate in the NVIDIA control panel.
It's very simple, you can't. The best you can do (and which is done) is motion blur, and it's definitely not even remotely close to frame interpolation into a higher frame rate.

You are either suffering of observer error, or things are not what you believe they are. You can't have frames between to displayed frames. Think just one minute about what you are saying... and you'll realize it's impossible.

The frame interpolation of your projector most likely double or triples the OUTPUT frame rate. Input is still 24p, but output is much higher. Just what AMD does too.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Sep 20. 2014 05:43

My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7
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Jeff R 1 [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 09, 2010 14:05 Messages: 179 Offline
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OK, that makes sense, but it isn't motion blur, I can clearly see a marked improvement concerning the reduction if frame judder.

I finally got some answers back form Cyberlink and AMD. Cyberlinks response and this also concurs with what AMD said:

"In regards to your concern for BLu-ray playback, AMD Fluid Motion is available for desktop graphics card which supports this feature, such as Radeon R9 295X, Radeon R9 290X, Radeon R9 290, or Radeon R9 285.

Also, it can work with Intel CPU, like i7. For notebook graphics card, our escalation team are still waiting for AMD's confirmation."

The explanation is a little confusing when he mentions the i7 processor, he makes it sound like it can enable Motion Flow, which it can't.

AMD's response:

"Unfortunately, the R9-270X does NOT support Fluid Motion."

I can understand this because the 270x has only 1280 cores.

It may work in conjunction with the Kaveri AMD processor though, but I am not going to go there just to find out.

One thing I have discovered is that frame interpolation puts a huge demand on a GPU and in the case of SVP; the CPU as well.
I have been playing with this product and have found it to be a little better that what my projector is capable of.

http://www.dmitrirender.ru/

The screen shots are of my present card and the load that Dmitrirenderer is putting on it.
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CyberLink-Michael [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Europe Joined: Apr 18, 2007 04:05 Messages: 7418 Offline
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Hi,
we plan to release an FAQ for this question soon.
meanwhile I can share below info for supported hardware:

APU:
A8 & 10 Kaveri based APUs
Some notebook Kaveri APUs – exact info tba
dGPUs:
R9 295x2
R9 290x
R9 290
R9 285x
R7 260x/260


greetings
Michael

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 22. 2014 02:48

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Jeff R 1 [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 09, 2010 14:05 Messages: 179 Offline
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Quote: Hi,
we plan to release an FAQ for this question soon.
meanwhile I can share below info for supported hardware:

APU:
A8 & 10 Kaveri based APUs
Some notebook Kaveri APUs – exact info tba
dGPUs:
R9 295x2
R9 290x
R9 290
R9 285x
R7 260x/260


greetings
Michael


Resurrecting this old thread, two years later and still nothing in the FAQ section on the matter.
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