CyberLink Community Forum
where the experts meet
| Advanced Search >
Particle editing problem *MAY* solve i7/GTX7xx long delay issue!
Reply to this topic
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5446 Online
[Post New]
This evening I stumbled upon something that I had not seen before: if certain particle objects are placed on the timeline and you use the scrubber to resize them, PD12 will freeze during the drag operation and will hang for up to 20 seconds before returning control. This is exactly what happens to those of us with high-end Haswell CPUs and NVidia GTX7xx cards when opening a Pixelan control panel, BUT this problem also happens when using the HD 4600 graphics!

It occurs with the Beta 2830 patch and the 2726 release; it happens with the nVidia card (332.21 and 337.50 beta drivers); and it definitely happens with the HD4600 using the current 10.18.10.3496 driver. As far as I can tell, this bug is universal and may finally point the way to the solution to the i7/GTX7xx delay problem.

Here's how to check if it happens on your system:

1) Open a new project
2) Go to the Particle Room and pull the 01_Star effect onto any timeline track. (02_light, 03_flare, 05_Bubble, 08_Cloud also have this behavior, but many other particles do not)
3) Using the scrubber, left-click on the right edge of the particle clip and hold the mouse button down while you drag the clip's ending point farther to the right. DO NOT release the mouse button, and just keep sweeping the right edge back and forth on the timeline. very quickly the clip and scrubber should freeze and they will no longer follow the cursor.
4) Once you release the mouse button, it will take several (or many) seconds for the scrubber to become live again.
5) Repeat the steps, and the clip should always freeze and take a long time to recover. By the time you've experienced 6-10 freezes, it may take 30-40 seconds to fully recover


If other people can easily duplicate this issue, then Cyberlink should easily be able to determine A) why the program freezes when resizing one of these particle clips; and more importantly, B) find out where the program goes when it is stuck for such a long time. That's the key to the other problem.

I'm very optimistic that the solution to quickly recover the focus from this issue is strongly related to the excruciating delays experienced by the Haswell i7/GTX7xx crowd. Please, PLEASE test this and let me know if you see the freezing problem or not.

Thanks very much!

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
Reply
1Nina
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline
[Post New]
I’m not completely sure about this. I have followed your “instructions”.
My problem, as you know, is that everything I might do in timeline / PiP causes delays, freezes and
jumps, so this really isn’t that much different.

But yes;

keep sweeping the right edge back and forth on the timeline. very quickly the clip and scrubber should freeze and they will no longer follow the cursor.


You know the specs of my system.
Oh boy, this forum resembles more and more a test-forum, but it isn’t, is it?


Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com
Reply
CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
[Post New]
Hi optodata

I cannot replicate this - works fine on my rig - sorry

Might not be a v2830 issue but a graphic card issue Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
PD3.5, 5, 6 & 7. Computer: Dell Dimension 5150, Intel Pen. 2.80 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 256MB, Windows XP Pro!!
PD8 Ultra v3022. Computer: Dell Studio 1747, Intel, i7 Q740 1.73 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 560v 1GB, Windows 7 Ult. 64
PD10 Ultra v2023. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD12 Ultra v2930. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD13 Ultim v3516. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD16 Live v2101 Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI Mob.Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
Director Suite 6: PowerDirector 16 Live, PhotoDirector 9, ColorDirector 6, AudioDirector 8

Cameras: Sony(s) HXR-NX5P, HXR-NX70P, NEX-VG10E, a6300 4k, HDR TG5E, GoPro 4 Black, Canon 6D DSLR

Visit PDtoots. PowerDirector Tutorials, tips, free resources & more. Subscribe!
Full linked Tutorial Catalog
- PDtoots happily supports fellow PowerDirector users!

Reply
[Post New]
Hi optodata,

Perhaps you have isolated the problem / issue when stating…
Quote: This is exactly what happens to those of us with high-end Haswell CPUs and NVidia GTX7xx cards when opening a Pixelan control panel, BUT this problem also happens when using the HD 4600 graphics!

I also tested. And after bringing the “Star” particle into a PD12 timeline, I followed your instructions the to the letter and purposely did “your” test on my old and lowly 2 core XP desktop rig (which has PD9, 10, 11, and 12 installed.)
I didn’t test it all yet on my more powerful “main” i7 laptop rig which is soooo much faster.

However, even on my slow and aging XP rig, I did not experience what you described when manipulating the Star Particle per your instructions. Nor did it seem to pose any problem or “lags”, as shown in this quick screen capture done in real time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP4GtiFN2_g

So… you may be correct. Many of these newer performance issues posted recently, are perhaps indeed related to PD12 not playing / working well the newest or latest “high end” power horse computers, or the latest newest video drivers (which I understand to be more of an accommodation to Gamers as a cure for specific high end game issues, rather than to improve Video Editing Software users issues.)

If I have misunderstood what you where trying to describe and were soliciting others to “test” here sir, then please let me now, and I will delete this post, so as to not clog up your thread with any misunderstood irrelevancy.


_______________________________________________________________________________

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at May 09. 2014 08:46

Click here PDtoots for a collection of PowerDirector Tutorials and Tips
Reply
1Nina
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline
[Post New]
optodata, Neil, CP;

well, here's my sample.....

http://youtu.be/bnxJitUyLl4
Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com
Reply
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5446 Online
[Post New]
Thank you all for your input!

Here's what it looks like on my system, so it's very much like what 1Nina sees.

I certainly experienced the problem when using the HD4600, but I had simply disable the GTX 780 in Device Manager. I will try disabling it in the BIOS and retest, and then physically remove the card and retest because even having the GPU present may be causing the problem, even if it's disabled.

As another brief test for those of you with no lags, what happens if you drag or set the duration of 01_Star to something like an hour? On my rig, that happens instantly but there are 20-30 second lags when adjusting the length be even small amounts after that, and an equally long delay after clicking Play before anything happens in the Preview window.

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
Reply
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5446 Online
[Post New]
I have an update:

I physically removed the GTX780 card from my computer, and I am still seeing this issue with only the Intel HD4600. That makes this problem similar to, but different from, the long delay when opening a Pixelan or CL Fade2 transition. With the HD4600, I can open either of those menus within 3 seconds, while it takes 7-15 seconds with the GTX780.

With this issue, I have the same response with either GPU.

Cranston, could I ask you to run this simple test on your "main" i7 laptop? I'm not all that surprised that this didn't show up on XP or with older hardware, but running it on your most powerful beast may be insightful. That's the part that's so frustrating here: that only the newest and most powerful computers are affected (and they're reduced to a crawl!)

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
Reply
[Post New]
Quote: Cranston, could I ask you to run this simple test on your "main" i7 laptop?

Hi optodata,

Sure you can.
OK, so I did your test on my i7 laptop (which is also a bit aging and not a high end rig by any means).

Laptop: Acer Aspire 5750
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium
Processor Model: i7-2630QM
Memory: 8 GB
Video Card: HD3000

Here are the results…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVfAymtGFOs

_____________________________________________________________________________
Click here PDtoots for a collection of PowerDirector Tutorials and Tips
Reply
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5446 Online
[Post New]
Thank you, kind sir! Any chance of you doing that with the timeline expanded out to 5 minutes or so? No need to make a video if everything works normally, but I think the problem is a little more likely to occur if you increase the timescale about 10x from this test.

Let me know what you find

EDIT: I should have said "thanks in advance, and I promise I won't ask you to run any more tests on this!"

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at May 10. 2014 02:20



YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
Reply
CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
[Post New]
Quote: Thank you all for your input!
Here's what it looks like on my system, so it's very much like what 1Nina sees.
I certainly experienced the problem when using the HD4600, but I had simply disable the GTX 780 in Device Manager. I will try disabling it in the BIOS and retest, and then physically remove the card and retest because even having the GPU present may be causing the problem, even if it's disabled.
As another brief test for those of you with no lags, what happens if you drag or set the duration of 01_Star to something like an hour? On my rig, that happens instantly but there are 20-30 second lags when adjusting the length be even small amounts after that, and an equally long delay after clicking Play before anything happens in the Preview window.


Hi optodata

After watching your video (I was doing it wrong) I have tested this in both PD11 and PD12 v2830 Beta and CAN confirm the lag.

I don't think it's a bug or a quirk with v2830 Beta as I believe the graphic card is just struggling to keep up with a sudden change in duration.

My lag is approx 5 secs.

Happy editing

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at May 10. 2014 03:54

Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
PD3.5, 5, 6 & 7. Computer: Dell Dimension 5150, Intel Pen. 2.80 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 256MB, Windows XP Pro!!
PD8 Ultra v3022. Computer: Dell Studio 1747, Intel, i7 Q740 1.73 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 560v 1GB, Windows 7 Ult. 64
PD10 Ultra v2023. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD12 Ultra v2930. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD13 Ultim v3516. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD16 Live v2101 Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI Mob.Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
Director Suite 6: PowerDirector 16 Live, PhotoDirector 9, ColorDirector 6, AudioDirector 8

Cameras: Sony(s) HXR-NX5P, HXR-NX70P, NEX-VG10E, a6300 4k, HDR TG5E, GoPro 4 Black, Canon 6D DSLR

Visit PDtoots. PowerDirector Tutorials, tips, free resources & more. Subscribe!
Full linked Tutorial Catalog
- PDtoots happily supports fellow PowerDirector users!

Reply
[Post New]
Quote: Thank you, kind sir! Any chance of you doing that with the timeline expanded out to 5 minutes or so?

OK, I will.
But if the next request involves a rubber glove and me having to turn my head and cough, I may have to respectfully decline.

Getting back to the matter at hand.
Yes. Now there is a lag once I drag out the Star Particle to a long duration. However, I don’t think I’ve ever used a “Particle” effect that I’ve set to display any longer than 20 seconds max.
I’m not sure that Particles Effects were created with the intention of them being used for long durations. Kind of like one probably wouldn’t apply a Fade effect from the Transitions Room, and set its fade duration to 10 minutes. Just my opinion.

Anyway, here are my results with a 5+ minute application of the same Particle Effect.
Yep, there is a lag before it stabilizes to the new desired duration.

NOTE: I made a mistake and wrote... 5 "second" duration" in the video's text.
I meant and I had indeed set the duration to 5 +/- "minutes"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfiTiG3zTp4


___________________________________________________________________________

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at May 10. 2014 10:51

Click here PDtoots for a collection of PowerDirector Tutorials and Tips
Reply
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5446 Online
[Post New]
Quote:
Quote: Thank you, kind sir! Any chance of you doing that with the timeline expanded out to 5 minutes or so?

OK, I will.
But if the next request involves a rubber glove and me having to turn my head and cough, I may have to respectfully decline.

Well, that sounds like a request you may want to make on a different forum, especially if money may be changing hands...

Quote: Yes. Now there is a lag once I drag out the Star Particle to a long duration. However, I don’t think I’ve ever used a “Particle” effect that I’ve set to display any longer than 20 seconds max.
I’m not sure that Particles Effects were created with the intention of them being used for long durations. Kind of like one probably wouldn’t apply a Fade effect from the Transitions Room, and set its fade duration to 10 minutes. Just my opinion.
I agree with the expected effect length, although I could see something like snow or fairy dust being part of a longer scene. Please see below.

Quote: Hi optodata
After watching your video (I was doing it wrong) I have tested this in both PD11 and PD12 v2830 Beta and CAN confirm the lag.
I don't think it's a bug or a quirk with v2830 Beta as I believe the graphic card is just struggling to keep up with a sudden change in duration.
My lag is approx 5 secs.


Happy editing
Thanks very much for your retest. This is present going back to the 2726 release, and since I see it with both Intel and nVidia GPUs, it seems to be GPU-independent.

Note that there's a difference between a processing lag (like waiting for a response after hitting the Play button in the Preview window, or after releasing the mouse button after changing the duration of the particle clip), and the operational lag I'm trying to isolate, which completely breaks the dragging/moving process midway through the operation and takes the editor a considerable time to recover.

Cranston, I can't quite tell in your video if you only got the lag after you released the mouse button, or if the lag stopped your scrubber in its tracks. Since you called it lag, I'm now going to assume that it was how long it took the system to respond once you finished dragging. If that's the case, then that appears to be just a processing delay and isn't related to my problem.

On my system, the issue forces a stop to the dragging; the scrubber will no longer move until I release the mouse button AND wait for the processing delay. Neil, did your lag force an end to your dragging or did it only appear when you released the mouse button?

If anyone has seen the operational lag: Try doing the test again with 06_Music (or any particle other than 01_Star, 02_Light, 03_Flare, 05_Bubble, 08_Cloud). 06_Music seems to be quite resource hungry and will take a lot of GPU power to generate all those notes, and yet it doesn't show any signs of the operational lag that 01_Star causes, even when dragging it to immense durations like an hour.

Thanks again to everyone who's spent time trying to help me with this. You guys rock!

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
Reply
[Post New]
Quote: ...after you released the mouse button, or if the lag stopped your scrubber in its tracks.

In my tests, repeatedly dragging/extending back and forth at will with the mouse continuously engaged, does not stop my scrubber in it's tracks. It's only when I release the mouse, with the particle set to a duration of say 5+ minutes, that I then experience a big lag until the effect is processed/stabilized.

Still, I'm on an older lower end i7 rig, and absolutely feel that CL should look into this and other reported issues for those with newer and/or high end processors and graphics (in case "I" ever get a higher end rig, hahaha.)


_______________________________________________________________________________




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 11. 2014 22:52

Click here PDtoots for a collection of PowerDirector Tutorials and Tips
Reply
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5446 Online
[Post New]
Thanks for the confirmation.

Although you weren't experiencing the main issue, I'm still holding out hope that I can find a test for CL to reproduce and troubleshoot on a wider range of systems.

As it now stands, people with the "right" (ha!) hardware are continually affected but most people are not. Unless CL's R&D or testing people have access to a very similar system, they won't even see the issue

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
Reply
Reply to this topic
Powered by JForum 2.1.8 © JForum Team