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Title Designer issue with shadow distance
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5445 Online
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I have found and documented an issue with the shadow distance setting when using the Title Designer in PD12. Although I am currently using the Beta 2824 patch, I went back to the 2230 patch from January and found that the issue was present then.

Here are the details: Place the Default title on the timeline, then open it up and check the Apply shadow checkbox. Set the Shadow distance to any number but 0, then save the title. When you open the title again, the shadow will be drawn correctly, but the distance setting will be approximately double the original value

(I say approximately double, because if you set the distance to 2, it will be 4 when you reopen it; 4 becomes 7; 9 becomes 17; and 15 becomes 28 - at least on my system).

By itself, that isn't a big deal since the title is still drawn correctly, but it's a real problem if you need to edit the title because any new/changed text will be drawn with the incorrect (and much larger) shadow distance. You can correct the distance before you save, but it's a real pain to do this every time, especially if you have a master title and then copy it and modify the text each time.

I've made a video that documents everything I've found, and you can watch it here. If anyone can confirm that they have the same problem, I'll report the issue to Tech Support.

YouTube/optodata


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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Quote: I have found and documented an issue with the shadow distance setting when using the Title Designer in PD12. Although I am currently using the Beta 2824 patch, I went back to the 2230 patch from January and found that the issue was present then.

Here are the details: Place the Default title on the timeline, then open it up and check the Apply shadow checkbox. Set the Shadow distance to any number but 0, then save the title. When you open the title again, the shadow will be drawn correctly, but the distance setting will be approximately double the original value

(I say approximately double, because if you set the distance to 2, it will be 4 when you reopen it; 4 becomes 7; 9 becomes 17; and 15 becomes 28 - at least on my system).

By itself, that isn't a big deal since the title is still drawn correctly, but it's a real problem if you need to edit the title because any new/changed text will be drawn with the incorrect (and much larger) shadow distance. You can correct the distance before you save, but it's a real pain to do this every time, especially if you have a master title and then copy it and modify the text each time.

I've made a video that documents everything I've found, and you can watch it here. If anyone can confirm that they have the same problem, I'll report the issue to Tech Support.


Hi Optodata,
I cant replicated this Title shadow issue with 2726 however I need to re-install as I have found my own "installation error" that hasn't corrected itself with any of the current updates and hasn't been reported on the forum. Maybe we should both do a re-install and clear out the registry ha ha.
I'll wait to see if others duplicate the shadow issue with interest.
Dafydd

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 07. 2014 05:46

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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9795 Offline
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Hi optodata -

I raised this in November 2013 here http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/30727.page#168653

You'll see that not a soul responded (I guess it didn't bother them that PD wasn't/isn't functioning correctly). As far as I'm aware the issue was not referred to CyberLink.

You're right - it's a minor annoyance - but it creates a whole lot of completely unnecessary work in a project with lots of titles (e.g. toots). Sometimes I forget to re-edit the titles so I end up with part of the title with a shadow of 2 and the rest with a big fat 7 or something. It's a waste of time.

Maybe the fact that you've raised it too might prompt some action.

Cheers - Tony
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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Quote: Hi optodata -

I raised this in November 2013 here http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/30727.page#168653

You'll see that not a soul responded (I guess it didn't bother them that PD wasn't/isn't functioning correctly). As far as I'm aware the issue was not referred to CyberLink.

You're right - it's a minor annoyance - but it creates a whole lot of completely unnecessary work in a project with lots of titles (e.g. toots). Sometimes I forget to re-edit the titles so I end up with part of the title with a shadow of 2 and the rest with a big fat 7 or something. It's a waste of time.

Maybe the fact that you've raised it too might prompt some action.

Cheers - Tony

The previously raised issue would not have been referred to CyberLink unless it was confirmed by other members (who duplicate the issue), any issue that is confirmed is reported. Today's thread would only get referred if and when the same applies. Optodata has stated he was reporting the issue himself to CyberLink via online support, this thread wouldn't need to be referred. The previously raised issue should have been reported by yourself to CyberLink, (via online support).

The Title shadow distance could be an installation bug, I wait to read if other members have the same problem.

Forum Moderator

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 07. 2014 09:00

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philwojo [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Apr 25, 2014 15:56 Messages: 16 Offline
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I just tested this and I could NOT duplicate the issue you are seeing. I followed your video exactly and my number never changes it always stays at 2.

I am very new to PD so take my results with a grain of salt.

Phil
Self Built PC with an AMD A8 6600K processor, with built in GPU. Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H mother board, 8GB Ram, Win-7 64 Bit, C Drive is a 128GB SSD drive, PD12 Ultimate 12.0.2726.0 running on my E drive which is a 1.5TB HDD, and all PICs and VIDs used in projects are on the E drive HDD.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5445 Online
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Dafydd, ynotfish and philwojo, thank you all for your feedback. I was hoping this was a slam-dunk and that everybody would have the issue, but that isn't the case

Tony, I wish I had seen your post in November! Do you have the problem on all 3 of your machines?

Dafydd, I did a complete reinstall of Win8.1 a couple months ago and hope that wouldn't be necessary again, although the installation of all the beta patches and going back to previous versions might make a full reinstall of PD12 palatable. I can also restore my entire C: drive back to one of 3 previous images to see if the problem has newly appeared/was not present previously.

philwojo if you were able to enable the shadow, set the distance and save the title and the shadow distance was unchanged when you reopened the title, then you certainly aren't affected BTW, what kind of CPU and GPU (video card) do you have?

That's a good thing for you, but it's more challenging for me because it means that there's something beyond the program code - like a user setting or interaction with other installed software or hardware/video driver - which can be time-consuming to isolate. Having concrete proof and being able to replicate the issue on many other machines also makes it much more likely that Cyberlink can determine what's happening and issue a fix.

I'll do a little more testing to see if I can find any triggers or settings that might affect this issue, and I would appreciate any additional feedback from other users who see or don't see the problem on their systems.

YouTube/optodata


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philwojo [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Apr 25, 2014 15:56 Messages: 16 Offline
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Opto, I have an AMD A8 6600K CPU on a Gigabyte F2A88XM-D#H mother board. That CPU has the built in GPU which, from what I read is equivalent to the Radeon HD 8570D graphics card. So I don't have a dedicated graphics card in my PC I just use the built in GPU on the AMD chip.

I was hoping to duplicate it for you as well, and I was glad you posted the video since I am still so new to PD, so at least i know I took the same steps as you and didn't muck up the testing part.

Even after I saved the title and then reopened it and saw no change I still tried to up it to 4 and saved again and reopened and still no change, still showed 4 when I reopened the title in modify mode.

If I can do any further testing to help out let me know.

Phil
Self Built PC with an AMD A8 6600K processor, with built in GPU. Gigabyte F2A88XM-D3H mother board, 8GB Ram, Win-7 64 Bit, C Drive is a 128GB SSD drive, PD12 Ultimate 12.0.2726.0 running on my E drive which is a 1.5TB HDD, and all PICs and VIDs used in projects are on the E drive HDD.
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Quote: ...and I would appreciate any additional feedback from other users who see or don't see the problem on their systems.

Just 2 cents worth.

First, I’m not on Windows 8.1 (if that may be a factor).

However, I have also posted / documented way back in the PD10 days (though not directly reporting to CL’s first line sub-contractor Support), the results of what I saw when applying shadow values to text in Title Designer, as being quite different than the actual results displayed when clicking Save and then returning to the main PD page.

I haven’t seen the apparent or actual numerical “value” display changes as shown in “optodata” fine video example, but will test when I get a chance.

However the issue still persists for me. The displayed amount of Shadow, Transparency, and Blur values that I may apply to my satisfaction in Title Designer looks very different once I save and return to the main interface page, than values I set and saw in Title Designer.
This on both my old XP and newer Wndows7 - i7 rig



_____________________________________________________________________________

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at May 07. 2014 13:38

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1Nina
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline
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Cranston:

I haven’t seen the apparent or actual numerical “value” display changes as shown in “optodata” fine video example, but will test when I get a chance.

However the issue still persists for me. The displayed amount of Shadow, Transparency, and Blur values that I may apply to my satisfaction in Title Designer looks very different once I save and return to the main interface page, than values I set and saw in Title Designer.


That's a ditto, except for I know the numerical don't change on my system/installation.
Because the way I make my title display in Title Designer, if applying shadow+transparency, turns out differently when
back in timeline, I usually make titles as .png files in a photo editor. If using Title Designer, I mostly avoid customising.

( It probably would be an idea for CL to put together a serious testpanel before the next release ?)
Just something.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5445 Online
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Quote: ...
However the issue still persists for me. The displayed amount of Shadow, Transparency, and Blur values that I may apply to my satisfaction in Title Designer looks very different once I save and return to the main interface page, than values I set and saw in Title Designer.
This on both my old XP and newer Windows7 - i7 rig

Interesting, because I didn't see that the shadow length had changed in the timeline or my produced videos, but I wasn't looking at that with a critical eye.

I only found the numeric value for the shadow length had changed when Title Designer was opened, and that any new or changed text had the incorrect numeric value applied.

I also agree with what Tony had mentioned on his not-responded-to post from November, that the shadow length increase for each numeric step is preposterously large. I doubt I've ever even gone to 3, and yet the step from 1 to 2 is very large. I think the shadow length should increase at maybe 1/10th the current step, certainly 1/4 would be far more useful (as in the length now created by a setting of 2 should require a setting of 8, if not 20!)

Also, I have done some additional testing and found no change when switching from the latest nVidia Beta driver back to 332.21. There was also no change after disabling the GTX780 and only running on the HD4600 graphics. There's a newish driver out for that from Intel, v10.18.10.3496 dated March 11 2014.

YouTube/optodata


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CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
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Hi optodata

I can replicate this annoyance I'm using v2824

On my system I set the shadow to 5, saved and re-opened and it was 11

I set the shadow back to 5 and saved and re-opened and it was 6. It stayed 6 for the next 5 attempts

I then did a Save As on the 5 shadow and reopened it and it was 6

Weird

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at May 07. 2014 23:56

Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9795 Offline
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Hi All -

Forum Moderator:
1. Checking back through my emails, I find that I did report the issue directly to the R&D team (10 December 2013) after my forum post received zero response. I assume they were unable to replicate the issue at their end.
2. No senior contributor needs to be reminded that you are the forum moderator & I consider it (at least) disrespectful for you to address your remarks by signing off in that way, whatever your purpose was in doing that.
3. I accept that issues are only reported if they're more widely experienced.

Members who are interested in the Title Designer shadows issue:
The problem occurs here on both my Win7 machines but not on the 8.1 laptop. I don't, however think it's system related.

I'll get back with more detail, but I don't think the issue should occur under ANY circumstances. It shows some instability.

I just completed a short project with lots of titles and calculate that the shadow issue alone caused > 800 extra clicks and keystrokes.

Cheers - Tony
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5445 Online
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Quote: ...
Members who are interested in the Title Designer shadows issue:
The problem occurs here on both my Win7 machines but not on the 8.1 laptop. I don't, however think it's system related.

I'll get back with more detail, but I don't think the issue should occur under ANY circumstances. It shows some instability.

I just completed a short project with lots of titles and calculate that the shadow issue alone caused > 800 extra clicks and keystrokes.

Cheers - Tony

Thanks for your feedback, Tony. It's interesting that it happens on your Win7 pcs and on my Win8.1 machine, but not on your 8.1. At least we know that you, Neil and I can replicate the problem so I just submitted a tech support request. Hopefully the second time for reporting this issue will be the charm.

I think we'd all agree that any issue causing 800+ extra mouse/keyboard actions per video per user is worth resolving!

YouTube/optodata


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CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
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Hi

Forgot to mention that this DOES NOT occur when I use PD8, PD10 or PD11

Can anybody else verify that?

Happy editing Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

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PD10 Ultra v2023. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD12 Ultra v2930. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD13 Ultim v3516. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Quote: Hi All -

Forum Moderator:
1. Checking back through my emails, I find that I did report the issue directly to the R&D team (10 December 2013) after my forum post received zero response. I assume they were unable to replicate the issue at their end.
2. No senior contributor needs to be reminded that you are the forum moderator & I consider it (at least) disrespectful for you to address your remarks by signing off in that way, whatever your purpose was in doing that.
3. I accept that issues are only reported if they're more widely experienced.

Members who are interested in the Title Designer shadows issue:
The problem occurs here on both my Win7 machines but not on the 8.1 laptop. I don't, however think it's system related.

I'll get back with more detail, but I don't think the issue should occur under ANY circumstances. It shows some instability.

I just completed a short project with lots of titles and calculate that the shadow issue alone caused > 800 extra clicks and keystrokes.

Cheers - Tony


You addressed me as "Moderator" in your initial post and here as" Forum Moderator", the response was to do with the role of Forum Moderator, so it is signed off as such. You appear to want to pick at anything I carry out. Kindly not do so.

I'm glad you have found you had reported your Title issue to CyberLink. No one at the time replicated your issue and now they are, slightly reassuring.

Forum Moderator

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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9795 Offline
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You addressed me as "Moderator" in your initial post


Incorrect. My initial post was addressed to optodata. Misquoting isn't productive.

and here as "Forum Moderator"


Correct. Your post deserved nothing less.

I know you're the moderator, Dafydd. Signing off as "Forum Moderator" when you're addressing me is just an attempt to be intimidating.

I am not picking at anything you do at all... but if you choose to be rude I'll choose to object.

We're supposed to be here editing & discussing it (along with a bit of belated beta testing). If we keep this up, the thread will be locked and optodata will have to start again.

Neil - I'll do some testing on PD11. I can't recall it being a problem previously.

Cheers - Tony
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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Quote:
You addressed me as "Moderator" in your initial post


Incorrect. My initial post was addressed to optodata. Misquoting isn't productive.

and here as "Forum Moderator"


Correct. Your post deserved nothing less.

I know you're the moderator, Dafydd. Signing off as "Forum Moderator" when you're addressing me is just an attempt to be intimidating.

I am not picking at anything you do at all... but if you choose to be rude I'll choose to object.

We're supposed to be here editing & discussing it (along with a bit of belated beta testing). If we keep this up, the thread will be locked and optodata will have to start again.

Neil - I'll do some testing on PD11. I can't recall it being a problem previously.

Cheers - Tony

ynotfish,
Moderator - you did address me as moderator but in a different thread. My error here.
Intimidating - nothing was meant as intimidating, the term Forum Moderator was used to show it was related to forum procedure.
Rude - no rudeness was meant, sorry if that's how it came across.
Locking the thread - that will be my call and hopefully wont be necessary. I could just opt to remove all unrelated content.
Monitoring the thread - I do so to read the input of other members who have the same issue as optodata and yourself.
PDR11 testing - would be worth comparing like to like and would be interesting to see if Title issue is replicated.
Forum Moderator
Dafydd
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9795 Offline
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Neil -

I'm unable to check PD8, 9 & 10. Long gone.

I can confirm that that same shadow distance increase does NOT occur in PD11 either with the scenario optodata presented (re-modifying a template) or with the one I originally posted (copying & pasting).

So - it's PD12 - but who knows what the pattern is. Nothing evident thus far.

Re: Forum Etiquette - ANY moderator ought to be a model of correct behaviour, just as a parent or teacher should be. Clearly, not everyone adheres to that view.

Cheers - Tony
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9795 Offline
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The expanding shadow distance issue experienced by some users has been resolved with the beta patch 2915 (22/5/14), but it's been replaced with an inactive Fill Shadow feature.

Here - you can click it all you like & nothing happens. Re-oping or copying/pasting a title removes the (inactive) Fill Shadow check mark.

Cheers - Tony
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