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acg [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 04, 2011 20:47 Messages: 275 Offline
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Hey Gang,

1. After exporting captured scanned films, the export gave me a 25GB file for about 400' of film at HD and .MOV. Then made some minor changes added music track and PD rendered it to a .MOV file. Biggest .MOV quality in PD. It bought the file size down to 1.6GB - quite a reduction. I must be losing quality when the reduction is that much. Is there a better format to choose for the best result?

2. In the film, the speed is a bit too much. (Not quite Charilie Chaplin). What is the best way to reduce the film speed to bring it more to normal. Just slowing down the video through power tools (then adding the music) or deal with frame rate adjustments.

The super computer sure reduces the time it takes to render.

Thanks,

Alan
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Carl312 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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Quote: Hey Gang,

1. After exporting captured scanned films, the export gave me a 25GB file for about 400' of film at HD and .MOV. Then made some minor changes added music track and PD rendered it to a .MOV file. Biggest .MOV quality in PD. It bought the file size down to 1.6GB - quite a reduction. I must be losing quality when the reduction is that much. Is there a better format to choose for the best result?

2. In the film, the speed is a bit too much. (Not quite Charilie Chaplin). What is the best way to reduce the film speed to bring it more to normal. Just slowing down the video through power tools (then adding the music) or deal with frame rate adjustments.

The super computer sure reduces the time it takes to render.

Thanks,

Alan

Yep, fast computer=less time.

What profile did you chose for the Powerdirector Produce of the MOV file.

For the MOV file type you can chose a range of very poor resolution up to Full 1920x1080 HD.

I have read your posts on your film capture device and I have read the information of the film capture device website.

Long winded answer to Question 1.
One statement I remember is the maximum output resolution of 1280x720 for 8mm film. The method used is one still image is created for each frame of the film.
If your MOV is 1280x720 do not choose a profile of greater resolution, you do not improve resolution, you just make a bigger file.

It you put all of the images for 400 feet of film, that is about 32,000 images. (a Guess)

I base that on the Wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_mm_film
The frame size of regular 8 mm is 4.8 mm × 3.5 mm and 1 meter of film contains 264 pictures. Normally Double 8 is filmed at 16 frames per second.

1 meter=3.28 feet. So 400 feet = 121.92 meters of film. 121.92M *264=32,186 images.

The details are important.

Answer to Question 2.
8mm film is normally about 16-18 frames per second, and you are rendering the MOV as 30 frames per second.
You would need to slow down the produced video in Video speed to match the same frame rate of the original film.

It will be trial and error because there is no precise measurement of the frame rate when you apply video speed.
Once you have gotten one film at the correct playback speed, you can make a note of the adjustment you made. Then apply that same factor to the rest of your films.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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acg [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 04, 2011 20:47 Messages: 275 Offline
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Thanks,

O questioln # 2 (speed siiue) that fis what I figureded - and have tried that. And It can work. You just have to add any music track last so it does ot disitort because of the speed adjustment.

On question number 1, the film was captured at 1080P HD, JPEG at 1:1 and then using the Retro-8 software exported it to the .MOV format for editing. I did have a choice of choosing 17FPS instead of 1:1 - not sure what the difference would be.

Cybeertlink must pay you a lot of money. You are always there!!!

thanks,

Alan
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Carl312 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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Quote: Thanks,

O questioln # 2 (speed siiue) that fis what I figureded - and have tried that. And It can work. You just have to add any music track last so it does ot disitort because of the speed adjustment.

On question number 1, the film was captured at 1080P HD, JPEG at 1:1 and then using the Retro-8 software exported it to the .MOV format for editing. I did have a choice of choosing 17FPS instead of 1:1 - not sure what the difference would be.

Cybeertlink must pay you a lot of money. You are always there!!!

thanks,

Alan

I am retired so I check the forum everyday.
Cyberlink does not pay me anything. Nobody on the forum is paid. We are all volunteers.

I would try the two export options and see the results.

It is too bad that Powerdirector has the 2500 image limit, If it did not you could use the jpeg images and put together the movie exactly like the original film.

400 feet of film must be about 32,000 images.

Video speed will adjust the video, but if you add music, you do that last. Once the speed is adjusted, you can add the music on a separate track. Produce and be done.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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acg [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 04, 2011 20:47 Messages: 275 Offline
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I was kidding about being paid - I know you are volunteering. And I appreciate it.

You should have some pull with Cyberlink on the 2,500 frame restriction. That wopuld be a lot of frames to work with. Not sure even my computer could handle it.

I emailed the Retro-8 person and asked him about the difference between the 1:1 and the 17FPS.

Looks like I will have to adjust the film speed, then add the music tracks.

I have about 200 films here to do for cousins etc. . . Don't charge them.

Am going broke on all this tech stuff.

If this all works out, I may start a little business.

I am also retired and do this for hobby. (24X7) - have to relax.

Cut the grass for the first time today. bout 3 acres out of 9 to cut. Wife mulched our planting areas.

regards,

Alan
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Jimbo223 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Apr 25, 2012 02:59 Messages: 95 Offline
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Hi acg, so you finally got the scanner.
How do you like it?
Does it work well?

What Carl said about the frame rates is spot on except the frame rates for 8mm film ranged a bit more - anything between 12 and 24 frames per second which can be really frustrating.

You could even have to play a tweaking game of 1/2 frames as you get closer to the FPS speed you want, so judge it carefully.

On the MOV (Quicktime) file spec issue, your 25Gb MOV (Quicktime) file sounds like a 'raw' uncompressed video file at 100% quality.

Depending if PD will allow you to do this (not sure so check) you can edit at this quality setting until you decide to finally render (compress) your movie for DVD, at which point I would choose MPEG2 if it really is for DVD and maintain image compression to a minimum, ie: no compression (or highest quality setting) and staying within the boundaries of the capacity of your DVD disks (4.7Gb or 8Gb for Dual Layer).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 10. 2014 14:27

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acg [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 04, 2011 20:47 Messages: 275 Offline
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PD doees not handle full image sequence files very well. It can only handle 2,500 images at a time.

What I am doing is capturing in the HD 720 mode - which is its standard mode.

After scannining film I export the film to the HD 1080, MOV file. This gives me anywhere fro 8-15GB files.

Then I bring these into PD and recuce the file speed by 43% to get back to the actual film capture of 16-18FPS.

Then edit, add music etc . . before buring to blu-ray dvd.

There are a few glitches in the software but am working through them.

Great resolution and color.

Highly recommend the retro-8 unit.

Alan
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Carl312 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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Quote: What I am doing is capturing in the HD 720 mode - which is its standard mode.

After scannining film I export the film to the HD 1080, MOV file. This gives me anywhere fro 8-15GB files.

Great resolution and color.

Highly recommend the retro-8 unit.

Alan

Can that software export a 720P MOV?

The reason is there is no advantage to export a 720P Video as a 1080P video.

You are just creating a much larger file with no improvement that makes it harder to edit in Powerdirector.

There is even less reason to create a 720P MOV from 8 mm film. It is nice that the retro-8 unit can do it, I am very surprised you can get 720P out of a 8 mm film.

The 8mm frame size (from Wikipedia) is 0.192"x0.145" to get a 1280 pixel Horizontal resolution you are scanning that frame is 6,667 DPI. That is a fantastic resolution for a scanner of any kind.

If you can, it would be nice if you could post a 5-10 second sample of the end result.
I am sure other editors in the forum would like to see the result.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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acg [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 04, 2011 20:47 Messages: 275 Offline
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Yes. The sotware for the retro-8 can produce a 720P and 1080P as export files (not capturing files)

The original capture is in a special propritary format (720P they call .film which goes into an album folder. From there you can export it to several other formats ie: .mov or image sequence, etc . . .. You can capture either compressed or uncompressed also.

720P is what it actually captures in. You cannot change that fact. From there you can export to what ever format you want that it supports.

I am still learnining here still a novice.

Not sure on the statement - if it is in 720P why export it at 1080P - what does it buy you? Good question. A question I can ask the Retro-8 people.
When you trim, edit, add music and render them as, the .MOV, blu-ray, 108, HD the file is significantly reduced in size. Down to sizes of 600MB - to terabyte quality is outstanding and would be even better if we did it in the uncompressed, image sequence file. But you would e working with horrendous files. But, as discussed, PD does not handle them well with needing to break the file down to 2,500 frames each segment.

Don't have any clips yet, but will have in a few days. Would you like me to send you a blu-ray with a couple of videos on it? Mail of course. Would not be a problem.

I found you have to reduce the video speed by 43% to get it back to the 17FPS originally captured in else ip plays to fast.

What a learning experience.

I would be happy to provide you with any information that would give the forum some ideas.

It captures at 2FPS, and he now is coming out with a scanner that will capture 15FPS upgrade price $900 - $1,200.

Alan
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Carl312 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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Quote: Don't have any clips yet, but will have in a few days. Would you like me to send you a blu-ray with a couple of videos on it? Mail of course. Would not be a problem.

No, I just would like a sample (5 to 10 seconds). I do not want a whole movie. It is your movie. I don't want what belongs to you.
I am curious what the film looks like after you have scanned and converted. It does not matter what the subject is.

I don't have any film anymore, so it is just a curiosity what the scanning result is.

It would be fine is you produced in PowerDirector 5 to 10 second MP4 video from your MOV file from the scanner.

That should be easy to do, just put a MOV on the timeline, do a Split at the beginning and the end of a 5-10 second segment.
Remove the parts of the MOV outside of the 5-10 second split, that leaves that split section on the timeline.

Produce a MP4 in the same resolution as your MOV file. If the MOV is 720P then produce 1280x720/30p @ 16 Mbps
If it is 1080P, produce MP4 1920x1080/30P @ 16 Mbps.

The 5 to 10 seconds is to keep the file size to a reasonable size for posting on the forum.
Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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acg [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 04, 2011 20:47 Messages: 275 Offline
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Not a problem. Sometime next week.

I did ak about the 720P and 1080P. If you keep he file in the original .FILe format it stores it and it stays at 720P. If you export to 1080P it expands the 720P to 1080P.

Am scanning a large film now - have 2 more large films to scan - then 2 small films to scan. For this project. Then I will get into the editing and rendering. Then I will send you some clips.

Then I have 2 more boxes of films to start.

Alan
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Carl312 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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Quote: Not a problem. Sometime next week.

I did ak about the 720P and 1080P. If you keep he file in the original .FILe format it stores it and it stays at 720P. If you export to 1080P it expands the 720P to 1080P.

Am scanning a large film now - have 2 more large films to scan - then 2 small films to scan. For this project. Then I will get into the editing and rendering. Then I will send you some clips.

Then I have 2 more boxes of films to start.

Alan

Sounds like you have a lot of work to do.

I do not see any advantage of exporting to 1080P when the original is 720P.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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acg [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 04, 2011 20:47 Messages: 275 Offline
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Wonder if it just fits the 108P tv format better.

Might have to do more research on all this stuff - or take a vacation from retirement.

Alan
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Carl312 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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Quote: Wonder if it just fits the 108P tv format better.

Might have to do more research on all this stuff - or take a vacation from retirement.

Alan

The aspect ratio is the same.
720p and 1080p are both 16:9 aspect ratio.

Actual size:
1280x720 16:9
1920x1080 16:9

You can make a BluRay Video Disk from either size.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Video

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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