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PD12 brings my i7 4770k to its knees
GGRussell [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline
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PD12 seemed to run on my old Phenom better than my new i7 4770k. Just got my new computer built. Fresh Win8.1 Pro with Media Center installed. hardly any other apps. I imported a .WTV file and PD12 converted it to .m2ts. I then proceeded to remove commercials. Just simple cuts. Scrubbing the timeline is a nightmare. The preview jumps back and forth between several frames. I have to wait a few minutes when i move the scrub line to another point to let the preview catch up and the audio isn't even close to being correct.

i7 4770k at stock speed, 16GB RAM, TWO 240GB SSD, 1.5TB SATA3 hard drive. With any other app, this thing smokes. i was hoping to get multi-GPGPU working, but it's not looking good so far. Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA
garioch7
Senior Contributor Location: Port Hood, Nova Scotia, Canada Joined: Feb 07, 2011 06:45 Messages: 852 Offline
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Gary:

I had issues with my Maingear awhile back that were related to a corrupt Nvidia driver. A clean install resolved that issue.

You might want to post a dxdiag file so that the folks here can see if there is anything obvious in your computer configuration that might be causing the issues you are experiencing. Make sure that your QuickTime is up-to-date, and that you are using the latest non-beta video driver for your card. Download from the manufacturer's website. Don't trust Windows Update. Your computer manufacturer might have installed an older driver as a part of the image. Also, make sure you have the latest build of PD12: 2420.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you make out. Have a great day.

Regards,
-Phil Windows 10 Pro x64
Dell XPS 8930
Intel CoreT i7 (4.6 GHz)
32 GB DDR4-2666 RAM
1 TB PCIe -x4 SSD
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060
PD14 Ultimate x64, 4207
CD4 Ultra and AD6 Ultra
Bleeping Computer Malware Response Instructor
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
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I just happened to have a HD WTV available for testing (see image) and I imported it the same as you did, applied multiple effects such as sharpness, hue, saturation, lighting adjustment, video enhance, etc., and then proceeded to make numerous cuts without difficulty. The scrubber in PD 12 has never moved as smoothly as I would like, but still no problems. As you can see my machine isn't nearly as powerful as yours, so something is impeding yours, perhaps the NVidia driver mentioned previously or something else. Another difference between us is Windows 8 vs. Win 7 on mine. I've heard enough about Win 8 to convince me to skip that version, and in fact have just ordered a laptop with Win 7 on it while I can still get it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 15. 2014 12:42

Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
GGRussell [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline
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At the moment, I'm using the Intel HD4600 GPU in the i7. Will later install my AMD HD7870. Want to make sure my system is stable first.

I think it was another Fox Network file. They broadcast here in 720p60 and PD has always had trouble with those. Audio is always out of sync, too. I've tried another WTV file that was 1080i and everything did go smoother.

Find it odd that a system this fast, I still have to have shadow files on though. Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA
Russell1967
Senior Member Location: Kissimmee, Fl USA Joined: Aug 10, 2013 23:35 Messages: 165 Offline
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Your video chipset may be to blame, as Intel is not known for having fast video chips (They make great CPUs, but not video chips). Your chipset is rated here: http://videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?gpu=Intel+HD+4600&id=2451

Also, if you're using the integrated video on the i7, I don't know how much dedicated video memory is available for that purpose or what its speed is. (You'd think that on-chip video would be the fastest possible solution since there's no bus traffic to worry about, but so far both Intel and AMD's CPU+Video chipsets can not compare with their better dedicated video cards.)

You can find a decent PCIe x16 video card for around $100 if you look hard enough, and $200 will get you one with 2 gigs or more of memory and plenty of speed, sli (nvidia) or crossfire-x (AMD) capability, too.

Let us know how you make out.

Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive
GGRussell [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline
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It uses my system RAM which is 2400. As I pointed out I already have a PICe 16x card - AMD HD7870 that I will install later. When rendering, the Intel HD4600 is very fast (QuickSync).

I don't think it was the video card, but the file. Editing FOX TV shows on PD11 was a nightmare. I just thought things would be different on this new computer compared to my 5 yr old Phenom 965. I upgraded to PD12 specifically for AVX2 and Quicksync support. These must be used only when rendering and not edit preview, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 15. 2014 23:55

Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
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Quote: I don't think it was the video card, but the file. Editing FOX TV shows on PD11 was a nightmare.
I can confirm that's the same situation in PD 12. I hadn't tried Fox files before, but last night I recorded a 36 minute clip from that network, which was 720p60, inserting random effects and splits, then producing it as an MP4 1280 x 720 at 59.94 fps and sure enough it was out of sync. No problem editing it, though. If I planned to work with those files in the future I'd try to develop some sort of work-around, but everything I use this program for is at 30 fps (at least up to now) so I have no need to. Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
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I can confirm that any dvr-ms files in 72060p from ABC and Fox have the audio sync problem with powerdirector. See this thread:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windowslive/forum/moviemaker-av/audio-video-out-of-sync-in-movie-maker/488c2321-c48b-48ef-aa7a-723ba7019ffd?msgId=b0b9bf0c-0775-4cd6-bbdc-018acbf2e464
According to Microsoft forum moderator Helene_C: Microsoft Recorded TV Show files (dvr-ms and .wtv) is not availabe or not supported in Windows 8.
Have the same problem as Billy R with win7. The originals have 6 channel audio. Convert to wav and you've only got stereo.
And yes GGRussell, editing those 720p60 converted dvr-ms files brings my i7-2600k systems to it's knee too but editing 1080i files from nbc are smooth as silk and fast too.
I do cut out the commercials and create BD with 6 channel audio from those 720p60 dvr-ms files that are in good audio sync. It requires lots of time and work so I only do a few of them.
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
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Quote: According to Microsoft forum moderator Helene_C: Microsoft Recorded TV Show files (dvr-ms and .wtv) is not availabe or not supported in Windows 8.
Hmmm... another moderator in that same forum seems to have the opposite opinion. In any case, using Windows Media Center as a DVR and converting files obtained therefrom is a pretty big part of my computer life, so I've decided to bypass Windows 8 for as long as possible. If Win 8 was indeed designed not to utilize these files I feel sure that there will be a work-around available at some point if not already. Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
Russell1967
Senior Member Location: Kissimmee, Fl USA Joined: Aug 10, 2013 23:35 Messages: 165 Offline
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Yeah, it looks like Windows 8 is the new "Vista". I hear MS is going to skip the next upgrade to Windows 8.x and go directly to Windows 9 to distance themselves from 8. (Rumor has it that they're bringing back the start menu)

On the topic of audio sync problems, I can't believe how common this phenomenon is in this day and age. Can't we figure this one out, tech guys? I can't tell you how many times I've watched videos on the internet, mainly Youtube, where the sound is not just out of sync, but WAAAAY out of sync - like several seconds out of sync. Audio streams within the video IMHO should have periodic keyframes (not the same as motion-type keyframes in PD, but higher quality frames spaced out within the compressed video stream) that have the time stamp of their position in the video so that out-of-sync issues don't happen, or if they do, they would quickly get re-synced automatically by the player software. I use to get maddening sync issues when capturing within Pinnacle Studio. Turns out my computer wasn't up to the task of capturing directly in the higher compression modes, so I changed to the lesser compressed formats - but much much larger files - and then converted to the higher compressed formats later.

Anyway, DVR-MS and .wtv are unknown formats to me. Are these European formats?

Russell1967

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 16. 2014 13:04

System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
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Quote: Anyway, DVR-MS and .wtv are unknown formats to me. Are these European formats?
They're explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTV_(Windows_Recorded_TV_Show)

Basically, .wtv is the format TV shows are recorded in in Windows Media Center when recording to your PC via a tuner installed in a PCI-E slot. Works much like a DVR. They're also available with USB connections. DVR-MS was the format WMC used in Win XP. Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
GGRussell [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline
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Quote:
Quote: If Win 8 was indeed designed not to utilize these files I feel sure that there will be a work-around available at some point if not already.
Media Center is available for Win8, but you have to pay $9.99US for it as an add-on feature. i think what the MS rep meant was that the built-in converter from WTV to DVR-MS format is no longer supported in Win 8. Since some software like PD11/12 now support WTV, that windows feature isn't really needed.

Russell1967- those are Windows Media Center formats (proprietary file formats by MS). From what I have read, the WTV is AVCHD with meta data header that contains date and channel info. PD12 converters this format to .m2ts. If I play this file with a media player, even that is out of sync so something happens in the conversion.

If anyone doesn't want to pay for media center, there used to be several open source apps that are similar that record to standard formats. Last time I checked them out, they were very difficult to configure.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 16. 2014 14:52

Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
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Quote: If I play this file with a media player, even that is out of sync so something happens in the conversion.
I've never tried playing the m2ts files converted with PD 12 with a player, but I can edit and convert files in PD 12 from various sources without sync problems; that is, except for 720p 60fps files, as I've recently learned. But I've never had these kinds of problems with 1080p clips from my Canon Vixia HF G10 camcorder, 1080p files from various HDTV broadcasts or 720 x 480 30fps files from METV or various other broadcasters. There's apparently something about the 720p 60fps broadcasts that causes this (probably a feature not a bug). Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
Russell1967
Senior Member Location: Kissimmee, Fl USA Joined: Aug 10, 2013 23:35 Messages: 165 Offline
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Thanks for the answer(s) concerning WTV and DVR-MS everyone. I don't really use my PC for home entertainment so-to-speak, so I guess that's why I've never heard of these formats.

Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive
GGRussell [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline
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Just tried Handbrake again. They have made lots of changes since last time I checked it out. It now only outputs to Mp4/MKV and will read WTV files. Converted the WTV to MP4 with Handbrake. Then imported that file into PD12 to remove ads. Video/audio is in sync with the 720p60 files. Editing is still slow, but stays in sync now.

A lot of work just to watch it in another room. LOL Guess I should check into a Windows Media Extender. Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
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Quote: Just tried Handbrake again. They have made lots of changes since last time I checked it out. It now only outputs to Mp4/MKV and will read WTV files. Converted the WTV to MP4 with Handbrake. Then imported that file into PD12 to remove ads. Video/audio is in sync with the 720p60 files. Editing is still slow, but stays in sync now.

A lot of work just to watch it in another room. LOL Guess I should check into a Windows Media Extender.
Tried a 1280x720 59.94 fps file from Fox in Handbrake and it didn't work for me... audio still out of sync. Then imported the file into my previous video editor (We'll call it "Brand N") and converted it to .mpg at 1280x720 but changed the framerate to 29.97 fps and it came out perfectly in sync. Then imported the .mpg into PD 12 and rendered the last 5 minutes of it as an MP4 at 720x480 29.97 and it was still in sync. I was hoping to be able to remove the old program from my hard drive but guess I'll have to keep it for awhile in case I come up against this in future.

BTW, what is your Windows Experience Index? (Control Panel, System, see the number in the middle of the page, if it works like Win 7) Click the link next to the number to see the ratings of your key components. One of those components might be slowing you down.
EDIT: Looked at my Handbrake settings and saw that "Variable Framerate" was ticked. Changed it to "Constant Framerate" and rendered again, and this time the video/audio was in sync when played in a player. Checked it with MediaInfo and for some reason it had rendered at an oddball framerate of 52.417. Imported the resulting file into PD12 and set the PD12 framerate to 60 (Got the Timeline Framerate Conflict warning but ignored it), cut out large portions of the file and rendered it at 1280 x 720 at 59.94 and surprisingly the resulting file was in sync when played in a player. If it had not been I would have rendered it at 50 fps. So it looks like Handbrake is indeed a good alternative to pre-render this type of file when needed unless and until Cyberlink addresses this problem.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 16. 2014 20:51

Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
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That is very interesting GGRussell. I will have to try handbrake on those 720p60 dvr-ms files from ABC and Fox. Most major TV network use 6 channel sound for their feature programming over the air. I use a 5.1 surround sound audio system for TV, BD, and MC. You lose the 6 channel audio and only get stereo after the handbrake conversion from what I remember. I have to use different methods to retain audio sync. I might opt to just go with stereo and save myself a lot of time using Handbrake.

Note: NBC and CBS use 1080i and I can edit and then create a BD with two 2 hour shows with commercials edited out to be 3 hrs. Editing is fast and responsive with menus. It takes less than 1 hour to create and finish burning a BD using srvt. Audio is in perfect sync.

Will have to try handbrake again on those 720p60 ones. I hear only a small difference in DD5.1 and stereo most of the time anyway. This will save me a lot of time and work for forgoing the 6 channel audio. Editing is extremely slow and not very responsive the way I do it to keep audio sync.

This is a good forum to learn from others and see other viewpoints.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 16. 2014 21:39

GGRussell [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline
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Quote: BTW, what is your Windows Experience Index?
Don't remember if that was in Win 8, but in Win 8.1, the Windows Experience has been removed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 17. 2014 00:23

Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
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Quote: Don't remember if that was in Win 8, but in Win 8.1, the Windows Experience has been removed.
Too bad. I used it in Win 7 to replace a couple of components, improving my performance considerably. As pointed out by a previous poster, your Intel 4600 is Benchmarked at 620 here:
http://videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?gpu=Intel+HD+4600&id=2451
The AMD Radeon HD 7870 you said you planned to install is Benchmarked at 4250, which is a very big difference and can't help but provide a significant improvement in your PD 12 performance as well as in other areas:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+7870&id=324
It actually scores a little higher than my GE Force GTX 660, which scores 7.9 on the Index, which is the highest score possible.
If I were you I'd install it. Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
GGRussell [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline
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I wonder if those benchmarks were optimized for the HD4600 or not. AVX, AVX2 and Quicksync are very important with PD12 when video rendering. Hope to get multi-GPGPU working if possible.

I had the HD7870 installed in my older Phenom machine for about a month. PD11/12 did use it, but never more than 25% according to AMD system monitor. Unfortunately, I don't have an app like that for the Intel mobo, but Suppose I can use GPU-Z which show GPU load.

I will eventually install the HD7870, but still have more testing on the USB3. Apparently, there is a known issue with Intel USB3 ports disconnecting randomly. Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA
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