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Video as ballet performance background
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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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I use normally PD for my own recorded video editing composition etc

But if I need to create a video that will act as background of a ballet performance, can PD help me in any way in the work?

The video might be made from abstract colors or figures, recorded real landscapes or 3D animations, I don't know.

I'm trying to figure out what tools I will need for such a work, any comment or suggestion is welcomed.
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stevek
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4635 Offline
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Quote: I use normally PD for my own recorded video editing composition etc

But if I need to create a video that will act as background of a ballet performance, can PD help me in any way in the work?

The video might be made from abstract colors or figures, recorded real landscapes or 3D animations, I don't know.

I'm trying to figure out what tools I will need for such a work, any comment or suggestion is welcomed.


Hi David445

As you know, the more information your provide will allow for better answers. Right now, things are sort of nebulus. What do you means when you say "tools"? Are you talking about the content of the video or something else?

Do you mean for a pre-recorded performance or one that will be recorded with the background?

You have two opposing issues. The first is that you must have a lot of light to make a good recording and the second is that too much light will wash out the rear projection. Take it from someone who recorded more than 20 dance performances (mostly modern and some jazz).

When you come back with some answers to the questions about recording or prerecording, we can provide more information. .
.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.
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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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Hi stevek thanks for your answer.

Tools meaning any sw that can help me. My knowledge of the video creation process it's really limited so I simply didn't know if programs such as PD are a partial response and maybe I need only to better master his usage, or I need something completely different such as example Adobe AferEffects (I never worked with, but I read about his usage).

I mean I need to create a video background for the live performance, that will be displayed behind the dancers during their acting.

Something pre registered maybe, composed from colors, light and shapes, such as the first part of the original Disney Fantasia movie to have some example.

On PD I always edited videos of real places and landscapes. If the idea will remain the same I need something that on the contrary help me generating moving shapes colors and lights, starting from scratch or from some basic template.

So live recording its not the goal, need to live play a pre-defined video, that I need to create.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Dec 22. 2013 09:27

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stevek
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4635 Offline
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How about some simple suggestions in a quick answer? Other will have other things for you to consider.

How professional is the performance -- age groups? How big a screen, how powerful is the projector?

Power Director will make the video for you. Look at the particles option both in the program and in the Director's zone You can add particles to a color panel. You can transition from one color panel to the next.

.
.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.
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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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Not professional they are amateurs. Age from 4 to about 12.
The theatre does have about 400 places for spectators so I think the screen will be about the same as a cinema. Don't know about the projector.
Will look at particle editor. About that I'm still using PD10, worth the effort to upgrade to PD12?
Apologize for my English probably I'm not clear as needed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 22. 2013 09:58

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stevek
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4635 Offline
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Quote: Not professional they are amateurs. Age from 4 to about 12.
The theatre does have about 400 places for spectators so I think the screen will be about the same as a cinema. Don't know about the projector.
Will look at particle editor. About that I'm still using PD10, worth the effort to upgrade to PD12?
Apologize for my English probably I'm not clear as needed.


You English is perfect ! I just needed to get on the same mind set as you.

For what I suggest PD 10 is enough. You will probably need to download additional particles from the director's zone. Make sure you know what each piece of music is so that you can choose a particle to match. Stay away from color boards/Background colors that are too close to the costumes that the children will wear.

Let us know if you want something more involved. .
.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.
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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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Ok I will start experimenting, reaching a first goal using particle editor bill be a good start, next we will see.

Many thanks
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9747 Offline
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Hi David -

After some detective work, Steve has pointed you in a good direction with the use of particles.

You need to consider what the stage lighting will be, so that the backdrop/dancers/costumes/lighting work together. The purpose is to highlight the dancers, rather than "enhance" them so much they get lost!

Of course, it depends on the style of dance/music but I think (in general terms) it would be best to shoot for something "sparse" (i.e. not much detail on a darkish background). In some more narrative pieces, you could use/get away with a simple landscape shot - either still or panned.

Playing with particles will be a good start.

Cheers - Tony




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James1
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
Here is a short clip for a start point. I am not entirely sure what effect you wish to achieve.

Jim
 Filename
Ballerina Movie.wmv
[Disk]
 Description
A start maybe
 Filesize
1677 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
202 time(s)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Dec 22. 2013 16:26

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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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One of my goals - apart from supply a nice to see background - it's to fill some empty space.

The group of dancers it's small, so I was thinking to use also chroma key to register some of them and next retransmit during the performance as a background.

Just an idea, otherwise some compelling visuals can maybe add value in the performance. I need only to integrate, not to substitute the dancing performance. It's ballet, not modern dance.
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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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Quote: Hi,
Here is a short clip for a start point. I am not entirely sure what effect you wish to achieve.
Jim


Interesting start, I need to create smoother movements but got the idea with PD I can probably achieve what I want, and that it's another useful information, thanks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 23. 2013 08:30

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James1
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
The short video I posted was just to give you an idea of what can be accomplished in PD12, if you are graphic savy and have some bitmap and vector drawing programs at your disposal the effect you wish to attain are possible. It took me 20 minutes too throw that clip together and produce.
Jim
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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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Quote: Hi,
The short video I posted was just to give you an idea of what can be accomplished in PD12, if you are graphic savy and have some bitmap and vector drawing programs at your disposal the effect you wish to attain are possible. It took me 20 minutes too throw that clip together and produce.
Jim


Drawing programs are needed only to draw the figures that will move around the screen, right?
You used PD to animate them.
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James1
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
I drew the background in a Vector drawing program Xara Designer Pro, the ballerina images were downloaded from free image program and background removed in Photo Paint X3. then then they were imported to PD 12 and animated the smoothness can be adjusted, but I just did a quicky to demonstrate.
Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

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stevek
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4635 Offline
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Animate is a very technical term used in industries like cartooning. I thnk it would be too advanced for your project (and too expensive).

If you have an image (like that of a dancer ) you can set the program to move that image across the screen. .
.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
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vn800rider
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1933 Offline
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This rough example clip was done in about 25mins from booting up.

It uses the visulizations from WMP playing an Air by Handel, captured with MS Expression, placed in track 3, track 2 has some stock footage from a stream I shot several years ago and track 1 has a cream colour board. Tracks 2 and 3 have keyframed transparencies to give a more faded look.

I'm not a great fan of visulizations but they can be OK if they suit.

Obviously, the atmosphere and effect required will be determined by the performance but PD should be able to produce what you require, the main issue will be the artistic interpretation and the resources needed. It will be possible to produce a very effective background to the performance.

Other than the stock clip (and PD), the rest is for free.

http://youtu.be/_v3A9ISsEIQ

Cheers
Adrian

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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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Quote: Animate is a very technical term used in industries like cartooning. I thnk it would be too advanced for your project (and too expensive).

If you have an image (like that of a dancer ) you can set the program to move that image across the screen.


Yes I will probably only moving images around, not animate them.

My secret desire is to create an interactive 3D environment such as this one

http://vimeo.com/68406063 (look at 5:27 it's beautiful)

Working also with game engines will be possible to do beautiful things such as this one

http://vimeo.com/47786134

Connecting this real time 3D engine with the movement sensors you can create beautiful background that will play with the dancers.

Unfortunately I don't have the time skills and equipment to do such things. Sometimes want to have discovered earlier my passion for video making!

Anyway need to be realistic and achieve first some basic results before try to do impossible things

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 23. 2013 17:53

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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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Quote: This rough example clip was done in about 25mins from booting up.

It uses the visulizations from WMP playing an Air by Handel, captured with MS Expression, placed in track 3, track 2 has some stock footage from a stream I shot several years ago and track 1 has a cream colour board. Tracks 2 and 3 have keyframed transparencies to give a more faded look.

I'm not a great fan of visulizations but they can be OK if they suit.

Obviously, the atmosphere and effect required will be determined by the performance but PD should be able to produce what you require, the main issue will be the artistic interpretation and the resources needed. It will be possible to produce a very effective background to the performance.

Other than the stock clip (and PD), the rest is for free.

http://youtu.be/_v3A9ISsEIQ

Cheers
Adrian



Nice example. Sure I need to first think about the artistic side and only next to the technical side.
I think to have good ideas, my knowledge ability and time will be the main limitations for this project, I'm sure it's possible to do wonderful things with only PD.
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9747 Offline
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Hi David -

Sort of akin to Adrian's idea of overlaying videos, here are a few examples (variations on the same thing)... http://youtu.be/ledZWcqaDFU

Cheers - Tony
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david445 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Oct 30, 2012 05:28 Messages: 129 Offline
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Quote: Hi David -

Sort of akin to Adrian's idea of overlaying videos, here are a few examples (variations on the same thing)... http://youtu.be/ledZWcqaDFU

Cheers - Tony


Really nice thanks Tony definitely can be a starting point, I like these idea of overlaying videos.
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