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File type preferences for std def video capture
jaymay22
Member Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia. Joined: Aug 27, 2009 07:18 Messages: 143 Offline
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I started this as a new thread (from my how to capture video) as I feel it's a completely different topic.
Capturing standard definition video from camcorder through converter to PD11.

Completely confused as to the file types and preferences I should choose for my needs and best quality.
There are three stages at which I have to choose file type / preferences.

1. The initial capture. - avi or mpeg2
2. In the produce screen of PD11 produce to Avi, Mpeg2 (DVD HQ), or even....aaaggh...the AVC option. (which sounded good when I looked at it properly??)
3. Then on the create disc page, dvd or avchd....

I guess it's important what I want to do with it.
1. I want to edit out video of my feet (lol), and blank bits, bloopers,..so mainly splice. maybe add a title or two, nothing much else.
2. then I want to save the digital copy on my external hard drive for safety, so I can use it any time I want.
3. Importantly I want to make discs of it, I can make dvds or blu rays (have a blu ray burner). Only standard def, so blu ray not going to be high qual except can fit tons on the disc.

I did a test, as Carl suggested.
a) captured to avi, and captured to mpeg2, put them together produced as an mpeg 2 file and put on dvd.
b) captured to avi, and captured to mpeg 2, put them together but produced as an avi file and put on a dvd (I guess this is recoded back to mpeg 2)

It's funny, the captured avi>producd to avi> on dvd looked awful.
the captured mpeg2> produced to avi>on dvd looked good.
the captured avi>produced to mpeg 2>to dvd looked good

and the captured mpeg2>to mpeg2> to dvd looked very average.

I don't get that. I don't really need to know HOW or why, but I would like to know which to choose. Seems odd that recoding from one file type to another got the best results with the least artifacting.

I haven't tried writing a std def (as above)to avchd disc yet. Am I heading in the right direction? or is there an obvious answer. It's doing my head in. Jenny
James Dotson
Senior Contributor Location: Tennessee Joined: Aug 24, 2009 20:40 Messages: 3066 Offline
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I personally would use MPEG 2 throughout the whole process, especially if SVRT is available. If you use AVI for the initial capture you will have less compression and should get better results, but remember that the file will be absolutely huge. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM
jaymay22
Member Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia. Joined: Aug 27, 2009 07:18 Messages: 143 Offline
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Jaime, I dont' mind if the files are huge, I have plenty of space, but it's more about the quality for me. Quality of the stored file for future use or saving, and quality of the resulting dvd.

Are you saying capture in avi, and produce to mpeg2? (that was one of my 'results' that looked good compared to others) The capture to mpeg2 and produce to mpeg2 was obviously fast, but didn't look much, was a bit fuzzy.
Jenny
James Dotson
Senior Contributor Location: Tennessee Joined: Aug 24, 2009 20:40 Messages: 3066 Offline
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Yes, you can capture to AVI and produce to MPEG 2 if that gives best results. In PD, DV-AVI has little, if any, compression, so you are really not encoding twice. That may be why you got better results. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM
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This is a good thread. Thanks for your input, Jaime. As a newbie myself I find all these formats confusing.

How noticeable is the difference between MPEG-2 and MPEG-4? I realize that each conversion does degrade the quality and that all this is inevitably a compromise, but will I see the difference upon replay through a DVD player into my telly?

I am converting VCR cassettes to digital using an EasyCap cable. It was cheap but seems to work. Is there any point in using a higher quality format?

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James Dotson
Senior Contributor Location: Tennessee Joined: Aug 24, 2009 20:40 Messages: 3066 Offline
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Most DVD players will not play MP4, so I would avoid even using it for that purpose. As for the difference, I get much better results from MP4, but that is almost certainly because my MP4 equipment is newer and better quality. If you have a high end MPEG 2 camera and convert to MP4 using a high bitrate format you will notice very little difference. The problem comes when people try to squeeze the video to smaller and smaller sizes. That said, with VCR as the original format, you will probably not gain much from a high bitrate format anyways. I hope that didn't just confuse matters more. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM
jaymay22
Member Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia. Joined: Aug 27, 2009 07:18 Messages: 143 Offline
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I just tried a very time consuming experiment. I wanted to see what I could SEE on the large TV, how the quality would differ from one to another, so I could choose the best that looked to MY eye. I don't understand files, size, compression, etc, but I cand see a pin in a haystack, so that's my best way of choosing. So...

I captured 3 clips off my old hi 8 camcorder into PD11

the first 3 I captured in Mpeg2 Fine
the second time the same three but in AVI
the third time, same three, in Mpeg2 Fast. (something to do with the speed, not sure what.)

Then Produced all 9 clips (above) into MPeg2 files
Then Produced the smae 9 clips again, but into AVI files,
And again, into AVC files. Now I have 27 clips produced 9 different ways.

I then wrote those to an MPeg2 dvd disc.
Then I wrote the same files, but this time to an avchd dvd.
Of course then I had to watch them all. Lucky I love my kids, and I didn't capture any 'whining' noises!! lol.
Here's the results:

Looked Good: I feel MPeg2 , producing to mpeg2 and writing to mpeg2 disc was a 4/5.
Avi Capture, avi produce to mpeg2 disc looked good 4/5
Mpeg 2 capture to AVc to and avchd disc looked maybe the best.
and mpeg2 capture to mpeg2 produce to avchd looked good too.

It's hard to watch all the clips and still be able to judge, but some were extremely jittery, and some artefact-y. The Captured Avi, produced to Mpeg2 was awful and pixelated. the other way around it was artifacty.

there's probably obvious reasons why these looked good to me, (on a fairly large dig hd tv screen) while others didn't. I'm looking at them on a disc through a blu ray player.

Is there any reason why writing them to a blu ray disc instead of dvd ultimately will change the quality? I haven't tested the whole lot on a blu ray disc yet (waste of a good disc). But can you put mpeg2 on a blu ray?

My result was that I liked the look of the capture of Mpeg2 produced to AVC and put on an avchd dvd best. I'm wondering if that's going to be the same putting in on blu ray (purpose only to put a lot on one disc).
I'm still confused about which I should ultimately choose, as there may be a reason why Jenny
James Dotson
Senior Contributor Location: Tennessee Joined: Aug 24, 2009 20:40 Messages: 3066 Offline
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I am not sure why it would look worse on a Blu-Ray disc unless it was the AVCHD compression. You can use MPEG 2 on Blu-Ray disc, even for SD video. Thanks for sharing your results. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM
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