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What's the difference between AVCHD and H.264 and others? EXPLAINED
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CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
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Hi All

I just thought I'd share this in an attempt to understand the different formats used in the video world

Videomakers (excellent Youtube Channel) have uploaded a video about various file structures, capsules, codecs and a whole lot more.





Happy editing

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 03. 2013 17:35

Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
PD3.5, 5, 6 & 7. Computer: Dell Dimension 5150, Intel Pen. 2.80 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 256MB, Windows XP Pro!!
PD8 Ultra v3022. Computer: Dell Studio 1747, Intel, i7 Q740 1.73 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 560v 1GB, Windows 7 Ult. 64
PD10 Ultra v2023. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD12 Ultra v2930. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD13 Ultim v3516. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD16 Live v2101 Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI Mob.Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
Director Suite 6: PowerDirector 16 Live, PhotoDirector 9, ColorDirector 6, AudioDirector 8

Cameras: Sony(s) HXR-NX5P, HXR-NX70P, NEX-VG10E, a6300 4k, HDR TG5E, GoPro 4 Black, Canon 6D DSLR

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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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Great stuff Neil. PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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I just watched the clip again more carefully, especially on the answer to the original Q posed, what is the difference between "AVCHD and H.264". I think the clip does a good job (and spends most of the time) explaining the difference between CODECS and Containers/Files but for me does not quite nail it on how these are then bundled up into the structures used by formats such as AVCHD (or DVD, of BD as other examples). I'd suggest one more diagram (like the one explaining how multiple CODECS are encapsulated in a container) showing then how multiple containers/files are then placed in the formats/structure with other data like menus, playlists, chapter points, etc.

FYI - It is not helped when for example a competitive product labels it's M2T(s) file Creation Option as "AVCHD" instead of AVC/H.264. Leads to all sorts of confusion trying to discuss these things when the Mfr can not even get the terms right!

Thanks again for the video clip, great work!

Nathan

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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eg - here is a crude pic of what I'd suggest to paint how the bits all fit together.

EDIT - Made the pic a "little" less crude!
 Filename
AVCHDStructure.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
121 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
220 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 03. 2013 18:34

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
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I want to know why my Mac does not recognise the AVCHD folder from my Sony cameras.

I have to convert them MP4 first Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
PD3.5, 5, 6 & 7. Computer: Dell Dimension 5150, Intel Pen. 2.80 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 256MB, Windows XP Pro!!
PD8 Ultra v3022. Computer: Dell Studio 1747, Intel, i7 Q740 1.73 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 560v 1GB, Windows 7 Ult. 64
PD10 Ultra v2023. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD12 Ultra v2930. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD13 Ultim v3516. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD16 Live v2101 Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI Mob.Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
Director Suite 6: PowerDirector 16 Live, PhotoDirector 9, ColorDirector 6, AudioDirector 8

Cameras: Sony(s) HXR-NX5P, HXR-NX70P, NEX-VG10E, a6300 4k, HDR TG5E, GoPro 4 Black, Canon 6D DSLR

Visit PDtoots. PowerDirector Tutorials, tips, free resources & more. Subscribe!
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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I updated my crude pic as in the opening clip puts some times in the wrong category (as I understand it).

Video CODECS (or Streams as many refer to them) can be things like: MPEG2, H.264, DV etc
Audio CODECS (or Streams as many refer to them) can be things like: PCM, DD, AAC etc
Containers (or Files as many refer to them) can be things like: MPG, AVI, M2TS, MTS, MKV etc and contain relevant CODECS/Streams (along with Subtitle Streams etc)

For the purpose of this YouTube clip when they were referring to:
Formats (or structures) can be things like: AVCHD, BD, DVD etc and place these Containers with other content (like multiple Containers, menus to access them, chapter points, etc)

The other confusing thing is each Container/File and Format/Structure have their own specs of what you can include, eg MKV allows you to include most everthing in it including multiple Audio and Video CODECS/streams, playlists, subtitles, chapter makes, extra content. M2TS (as used in BD) / MTS (as used in AVCHD) typically only contain Audio, Video, and Subtitle Streams with Chapter Points, Playlists, Menus etc contained elsewhere as seperate files in the Structure.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Nov 04. 2013 01:44

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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Quote:

I want to know why my Mac does not recognise the AVCHD folder from my Sony cameras.

I have to convert them MP4 first


I can answer that one theoretically as I'm not a MAC user. To playback your AVCHD you need SW that can do all the following:
- Decoders (CODECS) that can decode the Audio and Video Streams (should be OK)
- Splitters that can open the Container/File (eg MTS / M2TS) so it can pass the streams to the Decoders (should be OK)
- Navigation Filter than can navigate the Structure. This will be the issue for you but I understand players like VLC for the MAC should be OK.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 03. 2013 18:51

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
[Post New]
Cheers Nathan Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
PD3.5, 5, 6 & 7. Computer: Dell Dimension 5150, Intel Pen. 2.80 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 256MB, Windows XP Pro!!
PD8 Ultra v3022. Computer: Dell Studio 1747, Intel, i7 Q740 1.73 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 560v 1GB, Windows 7 Ult. 64
PD10 Ultra v2023. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD12 Ultra v2930. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD13 Ultim v3516. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD16 Live v2101 Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI Mob.Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
Director Suite 6: PowerDirector 16 Live, PhotoDirector 9, ColorDirector 6, AudioDirector 8

Cameras: Sony(s) HXR-NX5P, HXR-NX70P, NEX-VG10E, a6300 4k, HDR TG5E, GoPro 4 Black, Canon 6D DSLR

Visit PDtoots. PowerDirector Tutorials, tips, free resources & more. Subscribe!
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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Your other option would be to just copy the MTS files across (from the "\Private\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM" directory) and see if they play. If they don't rename them M2TS and see if that works. If you still want to "convert" them to MP4 you can keep the AVC/264 Video stream without transcoding but typically, the Apply world prefers the audio in AAC where you will have it in AC3 or LPCM so it is better to transcode the audio for wider compatibility. PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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This topic is still itching at me. To answer the question "What's the difference between AVCHD and H.264 and others?" Here is a quick pic and answer:

H.264 : Formally known as "H.264/MPEG-4 Part 10 or AVC (Advanced Video Coding)" and it is a video compression format. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

AVCHD : AVCHD (Advanced Video Coding High Definition)[1] is a file-based format for the digital recording and playback of high-definition video - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

An AVCHD Structure will contain at least one M2TS/M2T/MTS File (Container) that within it will contain a AVC/h.264 Video Stream, Audio Stream and Potentially Subtitles. An AVCHD Structure can be made up of many of these Files as well as other components like Playlists (Chapters) and Menus.
 Filename
AVCvsAVCHD.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
77 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
216 time(s)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Nov 04. 2013 02:39

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
[Post New]
Wow, you should get a job at Videomakers - great work. Made even more sense

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 04. 2013 03:09

Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
PD3.5, 5, 6 & 7. Computer: Dell Dimension 5150, Intel Pen. 2.80 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 256MB, Windows XP Pro!!
PD8 Ultra v3022. Computer: Dell Studio 1747, Intel, i7 Q740 1.73 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 560v 1GB, Windows 7 Ult. 64
PD10 Ultra v2023. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD12 Ultra v2930. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD13 Ultim v3516. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD16 Live v2101 Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI Mob.Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
Director Suite 6: PowerDirector 16 Live, PhotoDirector 9, ColorDirector 6, AudioDirector 8

Cameras: Sony(s) HXR-NX5P, HXR-NX70P, NEX-VG10E, a6300 4k, HDR TG5E, GoPro 4 Black, Canon 6D DSLR

Visit PDtoots. PowerDirector Tutorials, tips, free resources & more. Subscribe!
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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No chance - I'm a geek not a creative type at all (as you can see from my pics my Idea of creating something is a screenshot from XL!) ... I envy you creative types!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 04. 2013 03:40

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
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