MultiCam questions and comments

ToddFerrante

Newbie Joined: Sep 06, 2013 23:43 Messages: 6 Offline

Solved by

Sep 09, 2013 13:18

I'm a completely new user to PowerDirector. I downloaded the trial version just after it was released, specifically because of the new MultiCam feature. I've now made two videos using this feature:

I have some questions for anyone else who may be using this feature:

1) Is there any way to very precisely position the transition point from sources? Right at the end, the video tutorial implies that there is some way to do this, but doesn't explain how. The only way I've found is to record past the point, pause, go back and reposition the frame marker to the point where you want the transition, and restart recording. It seems like you should be able to just drag the transition point back and forth to get the edit on the frame you want it, but I haven't found a way to do that yet.

2) Is there a way to display the audio tracks on the four cameras? The tool allows manual sync of the cameras to the audio tracks, but without being able to see the audio tracks, it's practically impossible to get the tracks synched. This limits the usefulness of the tool to situations where the auto sync works perfectly on all tracks, which isn't always the case. In my particular case, the first video I posted above was composed of recordings of four different shows, shot from different seats in the theater. Because the sound track is mostly prerecorded music tracks, with performers singing, the audio cues are repeatable from show to show, and the autosync does a great job of aligning the four video sources with a master audio track. But, the second video has performers singing and playing. There can be variations in timing from performance to performance. Tracks that may be in sync at the beginning of a song may be off at the end, and require tweaking.

3) Is there a way to split the four camera preview window off onto another monitor? One of the factors that determines when camera cuts need to be made is that sometimes the autofocus on a particular camera gets confused and the picture goes out of focus. Subtle details like this are completely lost on the tiny preview screens incorporated into the stock window layout. Currently, I open each of the four camera shots in separate quicktime players on my second monitor and switch between them, choosing where cuts need to be made. Then I have to come back over to the MultiCam window and hit the "record" and then "pause" buttons to bound the desired camera shot.

4) Can the auto-sync tool in multicam be used in the regular editor? It would be great to be able to select a video track and an audio track, apply auto-sync, and have the video align itself to the audio track. That way, the regular video editing tools could be used to do camera switches, and transition effects could be applied which require overlapping video.

This tool seems to be optimized for video where the editor has the luxury of long stretches between camera swaps, and the exact edit points aren't that critical. For the performance videos I'm working on, edits need to be very quick, and the exact transition points need to be adjusted to fit the music or performance action. I'm hoping this is possible, and I'm just too inexperienced to know what tricks to use.

Anyone know the answers to these questions, or have tricks and tips to share?

Todd F.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at Sep 10. 2013 08:42

Michael8511

Contributor Location: U.S.A. Indiana Joined: Jan 14, 2012 16:12 Messages: 374 Offline

Sep 09, 2013 14:23

Todd I'm getting ready to play with the MultiCam feature myself. I'm going to have 3 cameras on me from different angles. I'm going to do the old trick of clapping my hand in case I need it to sync the audio. In your setup preference do you have it set to show sound waveform in timeline.

I will find out more about it here before long when I shoot the video and play. Waiting to make sure no body will be bugging me on the shoot.

Plus you need to take the s out of the http on you link to work right.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 09. 2013 14:25

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ToddFerrante

Newbie Joined: Sep 06, 2013 23:43 Messages: 6 Offline

Sep 09, 2013 14:52

Quote: In your setup preference do you have it set to show sound waveform in timeline.

The waveform shows in the normal editor. Is there a separate setting for the multicam tool?

Quote: Plus you need to take the s out of the http on you link to work right.

Done.

Todd F.

Michael8511

Contributor Location: U.S.A. Indiana Joined: Jan 14, 2012 16:12 Messages: 374 Offline

Sep 09, 2013 16:23

I was just playing with it and I did not see it in the MultiCam plugin. I ended up just using two cameras on my trial run of it. the audio looks like it sync up good. When I was done in the multicam plugin I remove the first we seconds of the clip in the normal editor. I will post it after I get my title done. It's just a small clip I did clap my hands together when starting don't know if that help or not.

Oh you videos look good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 09. 2013 16:24

Intel i7 5960X overclock to 4 Ghz 16 GB of ram.
GoPro 4
Canon VIXIA HF G10
Canon EOS Rebel T3
Canon EOS 70D
My Vimeo Channel http://vimeo.com/user3339631/videos

Michael8511

Contributor Location: U.S.A. Indiana Joined: Jan 14, 2012 16:12 Messages: 374 Offline

Sep 09, 2013 17:36

Here is my try at it. I needed to DSLR focus better. I'm going to shoot one more later and then do a screen capture if editing and using the plugin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 09. 2013 17:38

Intel i7 5960X overclock to 4 Ghz 16 GB of ram.
GoPro 4
Canon VIXIA HF G10
Canon EOS Rebel T3
Canon EOS 70D
My Vimeo Channel http://vimeo.com/user3339631/videos

Michael8511

Contributor Location: U.S.A. Indiana Joined: Jan 14, 2012 16:12 Messages: 374 Offline

Sep 09, 2013 20:22

Todd on your first question you ask about transition point from sources. You can use the previous frame and next frame button in the preview player. If the is not a split in the video at that point you will have to make a split to put a transition in. I hope that helps.

Plus here is a video PDtoots did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG400WMMCcE&feature=c4-overview&list=UU7hIdJ-WxMntopk-3uNTXuQ

Plus I don't know if you know but you can starch the timeline by putting your cursor where the number is on the timeline left click the mouse holding down and move the cursor to the right. Then if you want it taller go over to the left of the timeline. Below the audio track the line put the cursor over it. You should get the up and down arrows pull it down. Is way you can see the frames better.

I look at the seeing if you can move the 4 monitors and don't see any way to move them or make them larger. I think you hit the nail on the head with "record" and then "pause" buttons to bound the desired camera shot".

You have to remember this MultiCam plugin is a new to Power Director so we are all learning it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Sep 09. 2013 21:21

Intel i7 5960X overclock to 4 Ghz 16 GB of ram.
GoPro 4
Canon VIXIA HF G10
Canon EOS Rebel T3
Canon EOS 70D
My Vimeo Channel http://vimeo.com/user3339631/videos

Primus2112

Newbie Joined: Jul 03, 2013 07:15 Messages: 29 Offline

Sep 09, 2013 22:01

I am loving the multi cam feature !!! its saving me so much time and its so much FUN!!!
Here is my first quick test I say quick because I do these video stuff when ever the family is out for a while which is not all the time so I have to set up quick and shoot! lol

Robert

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Sep 09. 2013 22:05

the King

Senior Member Joined: Jun 30, 2010 04:10 Messages: 296 Offline

Sep 10, 2013 00:22

Quote:
1) Is there any way to very precisely position the transition point from sources? Right at the end, the video tutorial implies that there is some way to do this, but doesn't explain how. The only way I've found is to record past the point, pause, go back and reposition the frame marker to the point where you want the transition, and restart recording. It seems like you should be able to just drag the transition point back and forth to get the edit on the frame you want it, but I haven't found a way to do that yet.

you can use hot key(1~4) to do switch while recording or you can drag to modify the in/out point. (I believe you will know what I mean after you tried it

)

Quote:
2) Is there a way to display the audio tracks on the four cameras? The tool allows manual sync of the cameras to the audio tracks, but without being able to see the audio tracks, it's practically impossible to get the tracks synched. This limits the usefulness of the tool to situations where the auto sync works perfectly on all tracks, which isn't always the case. In my particular case, the first video I posted above was composed of recordings of four different shows, shot from different seats in the theater. Because the sound track is mostly prerecorded music tracks, with performers singing, the audio cues are repeatable from show to show, and the autosync does a great job of aligning the four video sources with a master audio track. But, the second video has performers singing and playing. There can be variations in timing from performance to performance. Tracks that may be in sync at the beginning of a song may be off at the end, and require tweaking.

I can't imagine how to recognize 4 different audio at the same time, maybe my ears are not good enough...

The only thing I do about syncing is select audio analysis and BANG! All clips are aligned even I put them on the same track.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Sep 10. 2013 00:30

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ToddFerrante

Newbie Joined: Sep 06, 2013 23:43 Messages: 6 Offline

Sep 10, 2013 09:01

I spent some time last night and answered my question #1. The camera transition points can be dragged in both the MultiCam tool and also in the normal editor. The behavior of the dragging handles are different in the two user interfaces, but you can accomplish the same thing in both places.

One thing to note: After you take an edited clip from the multicam tool to the normal editor, if you find you don't like the edits, you can either modify the transition points in the normal editor or take the track back to multicam to make modifications. You want to do any mods in multicam NOT in the normal editor. If you make a bunch of transition tweaks in the normal editor, then decide to go back to multicam to add a different camera shot, all the work done in the normal editor is lost. When taking the track back into multicam, it reverts to the state it was in when it came out of multicam.

vn800rider

Senior Contributor Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1949 Offline

Sep 10, 2013 11:40

The comments below are based on build 1931, which is an early build. The latest release may differ but for some compatibility testing I have not upgraded thus far, so please confirm my comments before acting on them.

1.
Yes, the best way to look at the multi-cam designer is as a series of mark in and mark out edits. Each of the selected clips can be extended (or shortened) by the normal dragging of the clip ends. That means the final exact editing can be done in the normal timeline as accurately as usual.

2.
As far as I know there is no way to display audio in the MC design module. You will also note the constraint on the preview quality, which I was informed by CL was done to prevent over loading the "average" graphics system by inviting users to play 5 preview screens at full HD.

Where individual tracks have A/V synch issues, I think that they would need to be synched prior to importing into the MC module.

3.
The module interface as a whole can be relocated to a second monitor, and can be re-sized to full screen. The clip previews do get proportionally larger but they cannot be individually resized. The active clip preview becomes as large as the normal preview. In these circumstances, apart from the playback quality constraint, the module has the same visual "quality" as the normal PD edit screen.

4.
I think that is really the same as you have already found in relation to 1. ??

My view of this module is that it is a good start to this type of functionality. There are some basic editing functions, as you point out, the "contents" and status of edits done in the MC module are retained and can be revisited, as long as you don't edit on the main timeline in between - in which case such main timeline edits are lost.

There are circumstances, such as A/V synch as you have outlined, where some form of pre-processing may be required to get the best from the module, and as usual with such things it might be better to alter the shooting style/process to minimise such issues - perhaps recording from a dedicated audio source rather than relying on 4 cameras with differing characteristics but that may not be possible for most of us.

I viewed this module when working with it, not as a multi-cam editor, but more as a neat mixing desk with some editing/synching features that make the traditional job a little slicker and easier.

It is also worth noting that the MC edits can be dropped into any empty track, I think in order of precedence, but I tend to lock other tracks to make sure.

Cheers
Adrian

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

ToddFerrante

Newbie Joined: Sep 06, 2013 23:43 Messages: 6 Offline

Sep 11, 2013 10:22

Quote:
Where individual tracks have A/V synch issues, I think that they would need to be synched prior to importing into the MC module.
...

There are circumstances, such as A/V synch as you have outlined, where some form of pre-processing may be required to get the best from the module ...

Is there a way to sync or pre-process the tracks before importing into the MC module? When I enter the MC module, all the tracks start out lined up with the start of track at time zero. This negates attempts to pre- sync the tracks in the normal editor. It might be possible to pre-sync them on the timeline, and trim the lead-in so they have a common start point, then import to to MC. But, MC only imports from the library or a disk directory, not from the timeline.

I worked on another song last night where the auto sync would sync two of the video tracks to the audio track, but not the other two. Syncing them all to the audio track was an exercise in frustration. I tried using markers to sync the tracks. I could mark the frames on the video tracks which I wanted to sync up, but you can't place a mark on the audio track! You have to drag the audio track back and forth trying to line up the wave form with the video marks. Because the waveform on the audio track is so tiny, and it can't be resized, getting the audio synched was impossible. I finally gave up and settled for 'close enough' in the MC module. Once I was back in the regular editor, I could resize the audio track waveform large enough to be able to sync it to the video track. Then, since the audio had shifted, I had to time shift all the camera switch edits.

My conclusion is that the MC module comes up just short of being fantastic. It is a huge leap over nothing, but with only a few minor tweaks to the user interface, it would be ever so much better. Here are some suggestions for how the interface could be improved:
- Allow display of the audio tracks of all channels, and allow resizing of the tracks, so tracks can be manually aligned based on the waveforms.
- Allow markers to be placed on audio tracks as well as video tracks, so the 'align to markers' function works on all types of tracks.
- Allow the user to select which tracks will be aligned when an alignment is performed. Now, all the tracks are realigned (or misaligned) when performing an alignment operation. Sometimes it's useful to align video tracks A and B to the audio track using 'auto align', then to align video tracks B and C to video track A using markers. This would result in five aligned tracks.
- Add a checkbox to allow the user to choose whether the four camera video track preview window is updated when playing in the main preview window. Disabling playback in the four camera window would allow for more smooth playback of the main preview window when reviewing edits. Now, I can't tell if my edits are really right until I return to the normal editing window.
- *edit* Please, to spare my poor ears, add a volume control to this screen.

Last night's result:

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Sep 11. 2013 20:02

vn800rider

Senior Contributor Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1949 Offline

Sep 11, 2013 15:31

I think I understand the issue you are referring to but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Perhaps it would be best to return to the basic issue - how to make the synching of multiple camera shots/tracks easier and more accurate.

I believe the MC module starts with the assumption that each video track is actually in A/V synch (allowing for a little variation - hence the nudge arrows) and therefore, if using audio analysis, it uses some algorithm to synch all tracks with reference to the chosen master track.

However, both in theory and practice, A/V sync is a function of physics, such as distance from the source (light travels faster than sound!), as well as hardware capability/compatibility (the reason I have several of the same model of camera) and so, if one out of four cameras is out of A/V synch anyway - perhaps because it is a mile away from the audio source, the MC module is really on a hiding to nothing trying to synch the unsynchable - sorry about the pun

.

Hence my comment on some form of pre-processing to adjust the A/V synch of the errant track, prior to import to the MC module. This would normally take the form of unlinking the audio and video, manually adjusting synch and then relinking and editing and then producing to a format of choice. Yes, it would be nice for import from the timeline but PD has never had that basis for operation so..........

Again, I think I would "re-define" the MC module as more of a mixing desk than an editing desk but I do believe it is a good and effective start to an increasingly interesting functionality.

As a generality, I believe there is a modern tendency, driven by marketing blurb, to assume that all things are possible in "one hit", so to speak. In reality, there are many instances where multiple stages are necessary (or even advisable) before any next step or final production. This issue is probably one of them?

Cheers
Adrian
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

Michael8511

Contributor Location: U.S.A. Indiana Joined: Jan 14, 2012 16:12 Messages: 374 Offline

Sep 12, 2013 19:16

The last 6 months I have been watching a lot of videos on editing and cinema shooting video. I started learning about editing in 2006. I was just making videos of roads here that motorcycle riders like. I just cut out long straight parts of the road. Now days I want to shoot video of other stuff and make it look a lot better.

From what I have seen, read and the test I did with the multicam plug in. If we setup right for the multicam shoot that the plugin in PD 12 would work right on audio sync. Get the camera going and using something like a zoom H1 or H4 on the stage. Clap you hand together to make that spike in the audio or use a Clapper Board. You want the cameras recording audio to. I think the audio analysis will work great. Now this has to be a shoot that people want you to do or know what your doing. From what I have seen the other software editors multicam editors are about the same has PD 12.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 12. 2013 19:19

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mr micheal w

Newbie Joined: Jul 30, 2013 17:11 Messages: 18 Offline

Sep 13, 2013 19:23

It'd be nicer if the zoom audio worked.. 96khz/24 bit wav from my h6 didnt work.. it was able to sync on the other audio fine..
Doing it manually by eye/ear is tedious, but at least it works.
I had my first go at it today with some concert material from august.. It read the pd11 files fine, the cameras would sync up, not the audio. the plug-in doesnt give you synced clips back on separate tracks back in the main editor, which is what I want. More than a little disappointed.