Hi Jenny -

Even though you say you're not "technical" you've given some good information in your post.

You've recorded using the 1920x1080 @ 17MBps setting. It probably looks crisp and clean in playback . If you burn that to DVD, you'd expect a massive drop in quality because it's being burned at DVD HQ resolution (720x576 - PAL). That's especially noticeable on pan shots.

I'm surprised you found similar artifacts when burning to AVCHD DVD. They're burnt at 1920x1080 without much change in bitrate (I believe the maximum is 17MBps). In other words, you wouldn't expect the quality of the video to be significantly worse than the original.

Quote: I chose again AVC 1920/1080/50i but this time picked 24mbps ?? why I don't know, as I'm not sure what that is.
and burned an AVCHD, 16:9 H264, 1920x1080/50i DVD.

I see - are you producing the video first, then using the produced file to burn the disc???

Selecting the 28MBps profile won't achieve very much, except maybe increase the file size. The 1920x1080/50i (16MBps) is your best option.

Jenny - are those artifacts present in the produced file when you play it on your PC, or only once you burn to AVCHD DVD?

Cheers - Tony

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Hi Jenny,
Does your TV have a USB port? Do you have a Memory key, a portable Card reader (SD cards) or a portable Hard Drive?

50i is not the best to choose. Stevek gave a link recently and I'd like to guide you to read it please: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/interlaced-vs-progressive-scanning-methods.html

The images of your recent video are a horrid representation of those screenshots you provided a while back. there is "something" going badly wrong with the render process. The interlacing seen is markedly poor. Looks to be a mixture of problems, render and interlace issue.

I asked if you had a USB connection, if you have and the means to move video, you could stick a USB device into the TV and play your Produced video. Doing that would a) show you a different way of displaying home video and b) eliminate the possible render issue. and C) the USB will play your full HD video.

At the moment I'm "at a loss" to know precisely what is causing the problem. Still thinking.

Dafydd
Dafydd

Tony and Dafydd,
Thankyou so much for both your replies.
I am looking into what you each suggested carefully.

Yes, am aware that the quality would be very low on regular dvd, but am choosing AVCHD dvd, and have in the past gotten beautiful results to play on my blu ray player with HD writer. So good, that I couldn't tell the difference between it and the 50p at all.(and my father is a cinematographer, so I am very fussy!)

Tomorrow I'll give a bit more attention to the playback. I did notice that it was fair, not excellent. It stutters occasionally, in the edit screen but I thought that was to be expected. I didn't notice it had artifacting, but I'll pay more attention to that tomorrow. Then I'll play the produced file on the computer and see how that looks.

Tony, I feel stupid and embarrassed to say that I can't remember if I used the produced file to make the dvd. (at least I can't remember for my 2nd and 3rd attempts, as they were the small test files..what an idiot! I'll do it again tomorrow, taking note. I was getting frustrated.)

My intention is always the same. I make the video, produce the file to a) store for safety on an external hard drive b) play from my external hard drive if I want, ..... and then make AVCHD dvd copies of it which I find easier for the family to use and watch on our blu ray players. (going to try blu ray discs shortly.) I wonder if I made the mistake of just creating the disc from the unproduced clips when I was testing...would that have caused the problem?

Thanks for confirming my choice of 1920x1080/50i 16mbps, I thought that sounded right, but wasn't sure.

Davydd, as always you're so quick to respond and kind in your advice. Yes, my TV has all sorts of smart ports, including the USB. I have a western digital media player that can play it, and also external hard drives which could play it. I just prefer to make a (2nd) "hard copy" of AVCHD dvd for my kids to use, so they don't mess up my nice drives. LOL. It's also just one more backup. I can't stand the thought of loosing any.

You're right, those shots look awful, compared to the lovely screenshot I sent you previously. It's definitely something I'm doing..some basic idiot thing that I've missed or mistaken.

I'll read that article shortly, my camera has the top level of 50p, then 4 lower levels...I've had trouble trying to find the resolution of the other levels, HA, HG, HX or whatever. I used HA, which I understand is 50i at 17kbps. The only reason I picked HA at 50i, is...being avchd I can make avchd dvds. Oh, and that I couldn't tell the difference on the tv, which is huge and lovely hd. I thought it looked great. I'll look at that article. Keep thinking for me, but I'll report back tomorrow.

Thankyou so much,
Jenny Jenny

OK.
Tony and Dafydd, I'm horrified to admit that I may have hit the 'return to edit screen' link on the create disc page, after creating my test discs yesterday. Then I think I probably did NOT remove the unproduced clips from the timeline,...instead using the unproduced clips to create the avchd dvd. I do not remember deleting clips from the timeline. My HD Writer does not return to the edit page like that, and the clips are not in the timeline, so I think I've mistakenly created unproduced footage.

Would that explain the bad interlacing situation?

Today I produced two small movies. 30sec - 1 min each.
Both are AVCHD 1920x1080/50i 17mbps at 25fps which I chose the AVC 1920x1080/50i 16mbps AVCHD DVD profile for.
Prior to production, the clips look very artifacty (?a word?) and pixelated in the preview window.
Then I produce with SVRT, but no hardware video encoder for one, and the video encoder checked for the second.
when I played the produced tests they looked much better. Then I found the HD preview setting, and viewed it through that, which looked even better.
Next I made a disc, went to the 2D tab, chose AVCHD H264 with the 50i profile.
I found the preview to be quite shuddery, and a bit stop start, but cleaner than before.
When I play file on it's own through media player it looks quite nice.

I created the disc and played it on the blu ray player.
It certainly is better than yesterday's efforts, but I was surprised that the artifacting is still there to a small extent. More on the first test - with no hardware video encoder, than the second. the other thing I notice is just a slight shudder when panning, it was particularly noticeable when I was filming my son doing karate, white against dark.

The results put simply, I obviously made the embarrassing mistake of creating a disc from unproduced clips, must have. I can't think why else it would be so different.
However, the results when an avchd dvd is created are not anywhere near the clarity of my basic old HD writer that came with the Panasonic video camera. I didn't get noticeable artifacting, and I didn't get any shudder.

I wonder what other settings may affect this quality situation. I have attached part of the video from test 1 about 25sec Shocking film work, and sorry about the family stuff, but ok for the variety of lighting I wanted for the test.
Can you see the disturbance I'm talking about?
Can you suggest whether I should have 'blocky artifacts reduced' checked or not?
Whether I should 'enable HD video processing, shadow files ( I read it was unnecessary, I have an i7 processor now.)
and explain what will happen if I put a 50fps clip in the same timeline as all my 25fps clips. (took some on my small still camera which, unbeknown to me is a different frame rate). I'd like to include it if I can, but get reminded that it doesn't match my settings.

And finally, from now on, I may choose 1080/50p for my footage. - you said it would be better Dafydd. My TV can do it, and now I have a blu ray burner, so I can burn discs...but not dvd discs right? Do you think 50p and blu rays will be around for a while? I don't want to be obsolete!

I apologise for making such a stupid mistake and putting it on the forum. Duh! Hope you can continue to coach me through my newbie-ness.

Jenny. Jenny

Having trouble attaching the produced 25sec file. Is it too big? Jenny

Hi jaymay22 ,
A project in the tracks does not need to be Produced to a file format to be rendered/written to a disc.

50p selection. You can still produce DVD's if you wish using any video. The video in the tracks is what you edit, the choice of output is what you select at the end and what your track content is rendered to. It is the quality you need to maintain and HD is best rendered to HD.

Mix matching warning*... import the video and edit it. There can be slight anomalies in the audio rate but for home video this is a marginal issue.
*I ignore the warning as I mix match frame rates all the time. See my Preference settings: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/24619.page#133778

25 seconds too big, maybe. Go smaller

No need to apologize, the forum is here for questions to be asked.

I may not have given you all of the answers you seek - I'm sure you'll remind me ha ha.

Dafydd

Well that's weird Dafydd because I've produced the video now and created a disc from the produced file and it looks SO much better than the other.
I am having the odd freeze, at the end of a create disc, etc. Odd.

I can only think the unproduced clips did not render nearly as well as the produced file did.
However, I can say that having checked the HD preview, I am now getting the odd green screen mixed into my production. 2 of them I noticed.
I can reduce the preview screen to the 2nd level of quality, but I wonder why. With an i7 processor, an AMD radeon HD 7800 series, with a driver date of 28.03.13 version 12.104.0.0 I think it's the most up to date driver. I don't know why I would be getting a green screen in the produced file, when I wasn't in the clips. ?

Yeah, the other questions, to shadow file or not to shadow file, that is the question.
and check enable Hardware encoder or not?
reduce blocky artifacts or not. Jenny

Hi Jenny -

Just noticed your avatar. Looks like it was shot from the Inter Con in Sydney. Mine was shot just down the road from there.

Producing before burning isn't necessary, but it does share the load for your hardware over two separate tasks.

When I said the AVC 1920x1080/50i was the best option, I only meant it was closest to your original clips. That retains maximum quality. Of course. if it's eventually going to be progressive, then...

Your questions:
Shadow files? Turn them off.
Check enable Hardware encoder or not? Run a couple of short production tests to see whether it has any positive or negative impact.
Reduce blocky artifacts or not. Run a couple of short production tests to see whether it has any positive or negative impact.

It would be useful if you could upload a 5 second sample straight off your camera for members to test (as has been suggested).

Cheers - Tony
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You're right Tony, I was at the Intercontinental for my 50th birthday last Feb. I saw your pic too, and noticed you were a Sydneysider!

I feel really mixed up.
I've re-produced a file, and it looks good, but now has green screen twice on two clips within the 30 mins.
I did it again, and got the same but in different place.
Odd since my computer specs are fairly good and my AMD radeon HD 7000 series is updated with the most recent update of march this year.
I also had already downloaded 3026 patch.

I will download a 5 sec sample tomorrow. Given it up for the night now.
I'm also trying to upload attachments, having a bit of trouble with that. Jenny

Hi Jenny -

I'm not quite a Sydneysider, but not too far away.

All you need to do is shoot something for about 5 seconds, then transfer the file to your PC. When you post your reply just add the video clip as an attachment like you did with your DxDiag.

There's nothing I can see in your specs that would cause the "green screen" artifacts.

Look forward to testing your sample.

Cheers - Tony


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5-6 second clip. Jenny

Hi Jaymay,
I downloaded your attached clip and produced h.264 AVCHD file (on NTSC format) with no shadow file and no GPU acceleration, 1920X1080 60p format here is the result.
Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

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Thanks! That's very nice, James, it looks great.
Since I'm in Australia, I have to use PAL, and 50p not 60p.
I'm not sure what you're saying though. Are you referring to my artifacting problem, or my greenscreen problem?
Also, are you suggesting I should try with no shadow file and no hardware acceleration, .... but what about the fact that my original is in 50i? Shouldn't I chose 50i not 50p?



Thanks though,
Jenny. Jenny

Success.

I believe my two problems have been solved. Though you may not agree with my theory, the results speak for themselves.

I think my artifacting problem was caused, somehow, by using the unproduced clips to create the AVCHD dvd, rather than using the produced file. I hit the 'return to edit screen' link, and just created from there. This time, I made sure I used the produced file and have not had any interference since.
I also think that some settings may have messed around with my production.
From now on I will:
Deselect the Hardware encoder in Settings/hardware acceleration.
Deselect Shadow files/hD video processing in settings/General.
Check reduce blocky artifacts in settings Production.
and use srvt, 1920x1080/50i (for the moment) 25fps, using AVC and SRVT.
In Produce I have enable hardware encoder checked in the window (although seems that contrasts to the uncheck in settings???)

Then my most recent problem of a greenscreen occurring randomly seems to have been resolved by setting the preview window back to H - High, rather than the two HD settings that I was hoping for. (that's rather ridiculous when you want to look at your preview the way it was shot.)

I've rendered a 30 minute AVCHD 50i video with allt he bells and whistles of fades and titles and it took about 45 minutes to render.
Does that seem normal?

Now....just to get it on the darn AVCHD DVD.

Q - Do I need to wait (in edit) for allt he timeline thumbnails to resolve before I produce?
Is 50p THAT much better than 50i?


Jenny