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AVC 1080/50 or 60p Users - PD11 Review (Part 2)
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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Last Updated 14 Jan 2013

Summary of PD11 for AVC 1920 1080/50 or 60p users: This is an continuation and a summary of the same review from the orignal thread but it had become cluttered- http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/24689.page

This thread is for AVC (h.264) 1920x1080/50 or 60fps users. Such files are being produced by a range of Camcorders such as the Pana 700, 800 & 900 series, CX560 & CX700, JVC GC-PX10 etc...+ this format is now a formal part of the AVCHD spec http://www.avchd-info.org/format/ (which is a subset of the broader AVC spec http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC ). Here are some notes on how these format is handled and produce by PD11:

Rendering Choices: The following is a summary from using the "Intelligent SVRT" under Produce which picked a correct profile under H.264/AVC. There are three options you can use to produce the final project.

1) CPU (Fast video rendering technology unchecked): This option works as you would expect and while it does re-encode the Audio and Video streams the quality and sync issues have been fixed. Looks good and I would recomend it as the prefered option!

2) Hardware Video Encoder (GPU): While the original version of PD11 would use the GPU, I've not been able to test this as for the last couple of builds I get a "Production unsuccessful" error. This test were done using nVidia 310.64 drivers and I will update later as this behavior has changed pending on the version of the Driver and GPU used. It is hard to recomend for these reasons.

3) SVRT: How much quicker over CPU rendering will depend on the size of each of your clips and what % of the video needs rendering (more info documented later in the thread). The output of the rendered and SVRT segment looks good and there were NO transition or sync issues (even after remuxing).

Other: Couple of other related comments:
- Format: The output file is slightly "non std", I'm not sure if it is the header information in the M2TS container or the stream info (esp the Audio Stream) but some other apps or players don't like it much. I did create a "ReMux
PD" batch file that may work if you have any issues with your output but YMMV (see post below).

- Audio: My test clips are 5.1 DD and if I check the properties from the library PD11 displays this info correctly. If I do this from the clips on the timeline, PD11 says the Audio is "unknown". Also when you use "Produce --> Intelligent SVRT" it only recommends the Video format and will render your Audio to 2.0 DD as default, so if you want to keep your 5.1 audio don't forget to click the Check Box!

- Timeline: It is fantastic that PD11 now lets you select the number of "Ticks" on the Timeline to match you frame rate for 25,30,50 and 60fps (including NTSC 1000/1001 variations). Oddly 24fps (and 1000/1001 variation) is missing yet you can produce in this frame rate. Cyberlink are currently looking and intoducing a 24fps timeline option which will solve this issue.

Thanks
Nathan

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Jan 14. 2013 06:24

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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Update : 2013/07/20 - Updated some settings plus added the option to output to a File, BD Structure or AVCHD Structure.

ReMuxPD Notes: It is with some hesitation that I post this batch file. All it does is demux the streams created by PD and remux them again so that it is more "std". This "may" help if you find incompatibility issues when trying to play or use files from PD in other applications. You however may find it makes things worse with audio video sync issues or visible issues at transition points within your output. To try it out all you have to do is place the "produce.m2ts" file in the "ReMuxPD" directory and run the ReMuxPD.Bat file. It will create a new version of our content as "output.m2ts". If it works for you great!
 Filename
ReMuxPD.zip
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
7782 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
404 time(s)

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Jul 19. 2013 19:00

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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Custom Profiles: Playback of AVC 1080/50 or 60p can be very demanding on many HW and SW players so there are a couple of things you can try if you find stuttering or other playback issues (note: I recomend that you do not use either SVRT or GPU acceleration for either of these):

1) Lower the Bit Rate: In PD you can create Custom Profiles. Try lowering the bitrate of the video and see how it plays.

2) No "B" Frames: "B" (Bidirectional Predictive frames) are not supported by all HW and SW players and take a lot of processing power. You could create a Custom Profile to see if this helps but it is a bit more involved and will make the file produced by PD slightly larger (but easier to playback).
a) Go to the produce tab as normal and select the AVC 1920 x 1080/50 or 60P (28Mbps) the press the "+" button to create a new Profile.
b) Give it a name and description that you like (you will notice on the "Profile Name" tab the GOP Pattern is "IBBPBBPBBPBBP" but to change this we need to:
c) Close PD11
d) Open this file in Note Pad: "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\CyberLink\PowerDirector\11.0\Profile.ini
e) Locate the "<Pattern>" for your new profile and change it to "IPPPPP"
f) Save the file

Go back into PD11 and on the Produce Tab --> Profile Type (Select CUSTOM), and your new profile should be selectable in "Profile Name". If you click the details button you can check the correct GOP structure is there.

Try making a file with that one and see if your HW or SW player likes this profile better. You can also run this through "ReMuxPD" if needed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 14. 2013 06:21

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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Update : 2013/07/28

Burning and Playback for Discs: The Blu-ray Disk Specification currently does not include support for burning 1080/50 or 60p to disk. Currently you have the choice between reducing the resolution to 720p (but keeping the frame rate at 50 or 60p) or keeping the resolution at 1080 but reducing the framerate to 50 or 60i. Neither is a great option.

Obviously, the AVCHD Version 2 specification does provide such a profile as this is what our Camcorders use to record to either their HDD or SD Card. A very poorly advertised feature of PD11 (as I've just found it), is that PD11 does offer the option to create a AVCHD V2 compliant structure for your 1080/50 or 60p content including Menus in full 50 or 60p!. Have a look at the attachment. You get the 50 / 60p option if you select either "Removable Disk, SD/SDHC/SDX.., Memory Stick". To make it work, you will need to put in a USB Drive or Stick (odd limitation) and then you will able to burn the structure to this disk.

There is nothing of course to then copy this structure to a HDD or burn to a Disk (DVD / BD) pending on what support you device has for such formats on removable media. Unfortunately for us HTPC users, the libbluyray used by splitters such as LAV Filters requires the BD naming convention not the shortened AVCHD one.

It even creates a nice AVCHD 2.0 Format warning for players that only support AVCHD V1.0 (see pic) in 23.976p - This was trigged by my versions of the latest TMT player.

Note: it is creating a 8.3 compliant file format (eg file extensions are things like M2T instead of M2TS etc). This may or may not cause issues with your SW as some my only support the longer extensions used by BD.

 Filename
AVCHDV2.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
73 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
235 time(s)
 Filename
AVCHDV2warn.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
78 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
210 time(s)

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Jul 27. 2013 22:04

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
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Bordo [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Location: US Joined: Jul 11, 2012 00:39 Messages: 17 Offline
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Can you please clarify if the x.v.Color option in Produce tab needs to be ckecked for the case when original file comming from camcorder and in it's setttings this option was enabled.
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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I've upaded some info on creating AVCHD structures and also updated the ReMuxPD to include this as an option. PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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Quote: Can you please clarify if the x.v.Color option in Produce tab needs to be ckecked for the case when original file comming from camcorder and in it's setttings this option was enabled.


I've not really had a play to see if all my equipment supports this wider colour space (or if I can even see the difference!) - More here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC . Note: AVCHD supports this colour space format but BD does not. I'd not sure that if you leave it checked there will be any compatibility issues or not. PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Quote: Can you please clarify if the x.v.Color option in Produce tab needs to be ckecked for the case when original file comming from camcorder and in it's setttings this option was enabled.


I see the above question as a hijack post. Please start a New Topic. Nathan's last thread (same subject matter) was hijacked and I do not wish that to happen again.
Guide information: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/24769.page
Forum Moderator
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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I've updated ReMuxPD with some changes and added a remux to BD option (as well as file and AVCHD). PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
Eugen157
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 629 Offline
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Thanks for doing that jmone. I downloaded it but it may be some time before I have a chance to use it.

You mention audio delays and other potential problems, curiously that has never been an issue here.

Best regards to all

Eugene

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 19. 2013 21:45

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-AX100
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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It's more of a warning that as I saw some of these issues with content created with particular earlier versions/patches of PD when using SVRT in particular (there are so many combinations). So the result could be that some of your older created output looks/sounds fine, but then if you then remux it some of these issue may then become apparent.

FYI I rolledback some of the settings in this to be the same as the FixPD9 version you like Any testing would be good in case I broke something! PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
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Great thread Nathan - Book Marked! Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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I've updated the post on how to Create a AVCHD V2 output - I can not believe that non of us knew the option existed!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 27. 2013 21:14

PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
Eugen157
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 629 Offline
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Hello Jmone

Just finished a 68 min 60P video using your new REMUXPD , option 3, burned to BR and found no problems, no audio delay.

Glad your fixer upper has been around for over 2 years!!!

I am sorry to say for me, PD11 would be useless w/o it due to the non standard audio when producing a 60P file.

Eugene

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Jul 30. 2013 18:05

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-AX100
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JMONE,

I apologize, as I now this thread is old now. However, it is just as relevant now as it was 3 years ago.

I was extremely excited when I came across your registry hacks for enabling 60P bluray authoring in PowerDirector. I eagerly downloaded it, applied it, rebooted, and put it to the test, hoping that PowerDirector 14 would work with it.

Sadly, following the instructions you provided (to the letter - 720P, 5.1, etc), the bluray disc that PD cranked out turned out to be a "slideshow" at 24P!

That's right - the disc was created as 1080/24P.

How on earth did that happen? Does your brilliant registry hack not work in PowerDirector v14? Did I do something wrong?

Desparate to get 60P blu-ray authoring working, and your hack is the closest thing I've seen to seeing this capability actually usable "in-app" without having to resort to a bunch of tedious and utterly ridiculous (but much appreciated) "Rube Goldberg".

So I guess I'm looking for confirmation that your "TurnOn1080P" hack actually works in PowerDirector 14.


Thanks so much for all that you pour into this topic and helping people.


RLH

PS: I shoot everything in 1080/60p with 5.1 sound, and have PD14 defaulted as such.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 21. 2016 11:17

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Eugen157
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 629 Offline
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There still is some problem. While 60P HD burned with PD14 play on a Sony player they will not work on the Samsung UHD player. Yet 60P discs produced some time ago using Pinnacle Studio do work on both.

However I use stereo only.



Good luck

Eugene.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 21. 2016 13:28

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-AX100
Reply
[Post New]
Quote There still is some problem. While 60P HD burned with PD14 play on a Sony player they will not work on the Samsung UHD player. Yet 60P discs produced some time ago using Pinnacle Studio do work on both.

However I use stereo only.

Good luck

Eugene.




I really appreciate your reply, as this issue has been driving me crazy (as I will demonstrate). So my big questions are:

1. How do I actually produce a 60P/5.1 BluRay in PD14 (or now 15)?

2. Can it really even be done without a bunch of "hocus pocus post"?

3. Why didn't that "TurnOn1080P" reg hack work? (I really had my hopes up on this one, whatta huge letdown)

Just out of curiosity, which version of Pinnacle Studio produced the 60P discs that seem to work? That really spiked my curiosity. Can the most recent version (v20) do that? If so, I'll drop the $99 right this instant. I see that as a really huge tip you just gave me, and I'm very grateful, as that product gets very pretty good reviews.

If not, then I'm probably just going to have to cry "uncle" and go the AVCHD 2.0 route and abandon my quest of true 60P blurays and settle for having to re-burn the AVCHD v2 "memory stick" content to BD manually. At least they will be compliant I guess (he says with disappointed acknowledgement that he STILL has to jump through additional hoops).

Rant: I cannot adequately express my frustration and amazement with what I regard as an utterly ridiculous problem: The inability to produce a 60P bluray when everything is 60P and BluRay, including most modern bluray players. I mean, who on eart at CyberLink (and Corel for that matter) are still refusing to add 60P to BluRay burning capabilities? Why do they feel they are beholden to that lame limitation? I mean seriously, I lay an epic "WTF" at the feet of whoever continues to make this "we're not adding it even though Sony, Samsung, and pretty much everybody else did a long time ago" decision at CyberLink. (pant pant pant - ok, rant over).

Thanks so much for being willing to respond. And I am quite grateful that there are ways to accomplish 60P blueray authoring if I want to make the sacrifices of jumping through all those PITA hoops. I am still, however, balking at the mere concept of having to.



RLH

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Nov 21. 2016 15:16

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Eugen157
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 629 Offline
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Have not made any HD 60P discs lately so I made a short one, 5 min long on a BR RE 25 disc.

Input 4K 30P, output settings BR 25GB. H264, HD 60P, Dolby 5.1, using Hardware encoder.

The resulting BR played fine on a SEIKI and Sony player. No menu or chapters used. Took less than 10 min.

Checked out ok in MEDIAINFO, a program you may want to download.

Last Pinnacle version must have been 16 or later, sold that version on eBay, still have 15. I went to PD because it was, in my opinion, a far better editing program.



Eugene

PS You may want to get some 25GB BD RE discs untill you have this pat

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Nov 21. 2016 21:30

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-AX100
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jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 689 Offline
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Hi,

There should be no need to for the old hack as PD has supported 50/60p for a few versions now. Just checked in PD15 and it works fine. You have to select H.264 to see the 50/60p mode (make sure you scrowl down to see the option).

Thanks

Nathan
 Filename
PD151080p.png
[Disk]
 Description
PD 15 with BD in 50/60p Mode
 Filesize
40 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
67 time(s)
PD16 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-50TB HDD
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Reply
[Post New]
Quote Hi,

There should be no need to for the old hack as PD has supported 50/60p for a few versions now. Just checked in PD15 and it works fine. You have to select H.264 to see the 50/60p mode (make sure you scrowl down to see the option).

Thanks

Nathan


You know, I never even bothered to check PD14 to see if any new 60P additions were added to the menu choices before jumping the gun and assuming that it still didn't. I have to admit, I'm pleasantly surprised that CyberLink recognized the issue and actually did something about it. Wow.

Please pass the salt and pepper, this crow is a little dry. ;


RLH
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