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Preview Window Dark or Dim
HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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I noticed this in previous versions but didn't think much of it until I started shooting night scenes. The preview window is rendering darker or dimmer than it should. If I trim a clip, the brightness is true in that window, but the actual preview window is much dimmer. I've attached a screenshot that illustrates the issue. This is a big deal for me because, in the preview window, it's too dim to see certain actions. It also influences how I'll apply color filters and changes. How can I get the preview to render at the proper brightness?
[Thumb - dimpreview.jpg]
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dimpreview.jpg
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 Description
Comparison between preview and trim window
 Filesize
323 Kbytes
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312 time(s)
James1
Senior Contributor Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
In the Fix Enhance" module there is an option for backlight, try adjusting that or try adjusting 'White balance" This helps with darker images.
Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

Visit GranPapa64's channel for your YouTube experience of the day!
CubbyHouseFilms
Senior Contributor Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline
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Hi

Further to what Jim has said, adjust the preview screen quality using the rectangle box under preview window. If you're using the full 64bit Ultra version you can select FULL HD.

Happy editing Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms

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HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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Appreciate the advice, guys.

Jim, I don't want to modify the original image. I only want the preview window to accurately reflect the true brightness of the video.

Neil, I've tried messing with the different settings in the preview window itself (docked, undocked; different preview quality) to no avail.

I actually noticed this flaw when reviewing some clips in VLC. Lo and behold, I could actually make out details of some night shots that I simply could not see in PD's preview window (initially, I thought those night shots had been ruined by being underlit).

Any other ideas? Is this a bug? Can anyone else corroborate my experience?
JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline
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I had what appears to be a similar problem in like PD8 or so. The timeline preview for me was much darker than the actual video. If I remember right when I played the raw video from the PD library the brightness was correct. I never use the trim feature so would not have any experience if brightness was correct there. I do recall playing the raw footage with any player (VLC, WMP...) was also correct. I never isolated what triggered the issue but I had to:

1) do a full uninstall of graphic drivers, Nvidia for me and Nvidia site provides directions
2) reboot
3) fresh install of the same driver I was using
4) use Nvidia control panel to reset card to default settings

Worked fine after that. Again my issue was ~PD8 time frame so things may or may not be directly related. You might try just item 4 and see if that corrects your current situation.

Jeff

HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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Thanks for the advice, Jeff. I gave that a try and came up with the same results. I have a sneaking suspicion that PD may be using a lower res or different protocol for rendering the preview window. I see about the same loss of light when I use the preview pane in Windows Explorer, for instance. If I use VLC or the trim window, the level of light is correct. This seems like a bug to me or at least a really poor programming implementation. There should be a 1:1 ratio for previewing video, across all features.

I've attached another example showing the difference between the preview window, the trim window, and the VLC window for a video clip that was shot at night (it's a monster).
[Thumb - deciduous_screencap.jpg]
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deciduous_screencap.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Preview window not enough light
 Filesize
309 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
312 time(s)
HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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Just updated PD11 and Nvidia drivers to latest. Dark/dim preview window still persists. I've been going back and forth with tech support on the issue, but it's been a chasing-the-tail situation. Anyone else NOT seeing this phenomenon?
JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline
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Post a few raw video files (5-10sec) from your camera of these dark shoot sessions. I had tried with my cameras and they looked fine, 3 different Canon cameras and 3 different desktops, nothing had the dark/dim effects seen in your attached pics.

Jeff
HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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Here are a couple raw clips of low light footage. Let me know if you see the phenomenon I'm reporting on your system.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_PU5bPJqMdQZEtMbzhFZ1ZrYTQ

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_PU5bPJqMdQXzNNTE1BdTh2ejA
James1
Senior Contributor Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
Well I downloaded both clips from the posted site and ran them through PD11 Ultimate and am sorry to say had not difference between previews. I tried to adjust using PD 11 Ultimate "color director" but the outcome wasn't great (altho I did manage to brighten them.
Just what I have perceived some camcorders are better at low light than others. I have JVC 670 camcorder and find it better at low light than my Canon...I would suggest buying a Light fixture for shooting in low light.
Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

Visit GranPapa64's channel for your YouTube experience of the day!
HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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Jim, Thanks for the feedback but, again, the issue I have is not with the original footage. It's how PD displays the preview window and the timeline preview at different black levels. Please see the original image comparisons and issue I posted.
James1
Senior Contributor Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
Well I got the same darkness levels on both windows, or so slight the I couldn't see a difference....they were both ridiculously dark...
Even when I tried adjusting through PD11 Ultimate 'color Director' the clip was so bad I couldn't adjust to an acceptable level....sorry..
Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

Visit GranPapa64's channel for your YouTube experience of the day!
JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline
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HeFed, I can see your issue, however, for me it almost appears to be my flat panel monitor when viewing such low light picture conditions and my view angle. If I undock the preview window and move it below the trim window the preview window actually appears brighter than the trim window. However if I move my eyeballs up or down for a slightly different viewing angle the low light trim or preview flip. Attached is a similar pic to what you provided, does it look okay to you?

Jeff
[Thumb - test_horiz.png]
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test_horiz.png
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 Description
 Filesize
444 Kbytes
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285 time(s)
HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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Thanks, Jeff. No, those screenshots look exactly the same on my side. Monitor issues notwithstanding, that cannot be the cause of my issues. I have dual monitors and no matter which monitor I display on (one's HP, one's Acer, both different connections), docked or undocked, the black level or dark/dim difference persists.

Raw video played in the trim window or VLC looks fine, as intended.

Raw video played in preview window or Windows Media Player looks darker than should be.

To me, that points toward a rendering or encoding issue, possibly using different codecs to render/display the previews.

Does that logic make sense?
Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Umm, very strange. I have replicated the dark/less dark appearance with Trim. I didn't get the improvements in a standalone player or during preview. Undocking did improved the situation but not as clearly as trim.

Over to CyberLink.

Dafydd
HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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I found this topic that might give us a clue?

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3080.0
Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Just an update. CyberLink report: The issue has been reproduced and data's been passed to (CL's) RD* team.

*RD = Research and Development

Dafydd
HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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Yep, I got the update on my trouble ticket. Hopefully they can figure out the issue and correct.
andrew10 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Oct 15, 2009 12:29 Messages: 7 Offline
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HeFed, I just downloaded your file and I have exactly the same problems with my mov files in cyb pd10/11? Its the levels, basically the mov files are I believe 16-235 and on adding to Cyber it appears to convert them to either 0-255 or rgb, probably the same thing! In any event the mov files from dslr's/cscs especially mov files are not compatiable in trial realease. Do you know if this has been resolved at any stage?

HeFed [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Apr 04, 2012 19:59 Messages: 48 Offline
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Andrew10, No word back from CyberLink tech support so no resolution yet. What you describe is essentially the same thing I posted via the Magic Lantern forum. I'm hoping for some kind of patch because editing low-light footage is a huge pain in the ass. But more importantly, what we're seeing in the preview window is not indicative of the final rendered product in many cases.
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