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Cannot remove empty track
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EXR [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 26, 2012 20:32 Messages: 27 Offline
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Hi there, i added new track to my timeline to do some work. Let's call this track 2. After the job is done, now track 2 is empty. When i right click on track 2 and select "remove empty track," i cannot delete it. It is still there. I didn't lock the track.
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Anonymous [Avatar]
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Video- (and audio)- tracks 1 and 2 are not affected by "remove empty tracks".
So, assuming that you've got your project in track 1 alone, an empty track 2 remains in any case - as a reserve.
If you start using track 2, PD automatically generates a track 3 - a new reserve - and so on.

Michael.
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babindia
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: India Joined: Aug 16, 2007 06:11 Messages: 884 Offline
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EXR
You cannot remove track 2 though it is empty.It will no way affect your rendering the video. It is a default of PD. PC specs :
OS Windows 10.0 Pro
MB - AS rock Z77 extreme 11
Intel 3770K @ 4.0 Ghz OC
Gskill 32 GB RAM 1800 Mhz
6 TB HDD, SSD bootable
nVidia ASUS GTX 660 Ti
BenQ 22" LCD monitor 1920x1080

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EXR [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 26, 2012 20:32 Messages: 27 Offline
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Oh, I'm very sorry. I think it was my mistake for not making myself clear enough. Perhaps let me illustrate again. 

In my timeline, I have a total of 4 tracks. I learned that shortening a text duration on a particular track will shift everything on the right hand side towards the left. I want to avoid this. So I created a new track, bring down the text, shorten it and drag it back to its original position. This new track I created is only meant for this purpose. And when I'm done, I wanted to remove this new track. When I right click and select "remove empty track" this track is still there and cannot be remove. 
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Quote: When I right click and select "remove empty track" this track is still there and cannot be remove.

EXR,

Are you sure the track is indeed empty?

Using the little button/sider tool (at the very bottom left of your PD main screen), slide the button all the way to the right, thus fully expanding your timelines
Now check this track you want to remove, to see if there is maybe a little sliver of media left behind after an edit (that you can’t see when your timelines are compressed).


Click here PDtoots for a collection of PowerDirector Tutorials and Tips
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EXR [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 26, 2012 20:32 Messages: 27 Offline
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Yes, i am very sure the track is empty. You mean if there is something on this particular track, it can never be removed?

Quote:
Quote: When I right click and select "remove empty track" this track is still there and cannot be remove.

EXR,

Are you sure the track is indeed empty?

Using the little button/sider tool (at the very bottom left of your PD main screen), slide the button all the way to the right, thus fully expanding your timelines
Now check this track you want to remove, to see if there is maybe a little sliver of media left behind after an edit (that you can’t see when your timelines are compressed).


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Quote: You mean if there is something on this particular track, it can never be removed?

Before we get the terminology of remove and delete mixed up...
Remember, you have been asking about the “Remove Empty Tracks” right click option, which removes “empty” tracks.
(As was written above, by default, you will always have 2 tracks showing.)
Any extra track that has been added, can be removed. Assuming the track is empty.
So it’s very weird that you are having this issue of not being able to remove a track (that you added, used, but now is empty).

If for instance, you have 9 tracks full, and you delete everything that is in track 6 (including audio that has been unlinked from the video), then when right clicking and choosing “Remove Empty Tracks”, you can remove track 6. Actually, the #6 timeline is removed, and then PD just re-numbers the all remaining tracks.
So now your project will show that it only has a total 8 tracks, instead of 9 tracks. But you will still have/see a track #6. Which will now be filled with the media that was previously labeled as being in track #7. In short, everything just shifts up or down.

Back to your posted issue.
If you are saying that you added let’s say 2 extra tracks with total of 4 showing, and now you no longer need these extra tracks 3 & 4, and have deleted (or moved) all media from them. Then the right click “Remove Empty Tracks” option should indeed remove those tracks #3 an #4, with your mouse click.
If the extra/empty tracks are not responding to your attempt to use the Remove Empty Tracks option in PD10, then I’m stumped. Because it has never failed to work for me, in a 32bit or 64bit environment.

Maybe someone else will chime in with more suggestions.
Or perhaps a PD10 re-install is in order?
Or... there’s always the “hit & miss” gamble of contacting CL Tech Support.

But I do hope you get it worked out. And when you do, please share the results and fix here, with your fellow forum members.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 19. 2012 00:35

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EXR [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 26, 2012 20:32 Messages: 27 Offline
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Hi Cranston, I'm aware that any extra track that has been added, can be removed. And it can be removed by simply just right click and select "remove empty track." I done that and it can be removed. Not sure what happen, this time i can't. I have a total of track #1,#2,#3 and #4. During the production, i wanted to add one more track in between #1 and #2. And as you said, now #2 has become #3. And i have a new #2 track. So now #2 track i don't need anymore and there are nothing on #2 track. And i can't remove it by using right click and select "remove empty track."

I found a solution. The solution is this. When you add a new track in between #1 and #2, that means you select add tracks and under the position you select "above track 2." A new track 2 will be added and the original #2 will shift down to #3. We all know this. When you need to remove this new #2 track, you cannot do it by simply right click and select "remove empty track." What i did was, i right click and select "move to" and then moved it to the most bottom track. From there, i'm able to "remove empty track."

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babindia
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: India Joined: Aug 16, 2007 06:11 Messages: 884 Offline
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EXR
I do not quite agree with you. I tried what you said and the new track which was inserted above track #2 got removed by right click "Remove empty track"
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PC specs :
OS Windows 10.0 Pro
MB - AS rock Z77 extreme 11
Intel 3770K @ 4.0 Ghz OC
Gskill 32 GB RAM 1800 Mhz
6 TB HDD, SSD bootable
nVidia ASUS GTX 660 Ti
BenQ 22" LCD monitor 1920x1080

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babindia
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: India Joined: Aug 16, 2007 06:11 Messages: 884 Offline
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Added one more screen shot as PD takes only three attachments per post.
This makes me curious. I attached png files in order 1 to 3 but the last png tops the list why ?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 19. 2012 10:10

PC specs :
OS Windows 10.0 Pro
MB - AS rock Z77 extreme 11
Intel 3770K @ 4.0 Ghz OC
Gskill 32 GB RAM 1800 Mhz
6 TB HDD, SSD bootable
nVidia ASUS GTX 660 Ti
BenQ 22" LCD monitor 1920x1080

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Anonymous [Avatar]
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Good luck for you, that you found out how to work-around, but:
There is nothing logical behind that. (Don't take personally, I blame PD for it!)
Because....
When I work at a project, in the timeline there are - as a default - the following "lines":
1 (video) - 1 (audio) - blossom (effects) - 2 (video) - 2 (audio) - T (text) - mike (voiceover) - keys (music).
'Normally', when I add a new track it's primarily via 2 ways:
A: simply insert a clip into (normally empty) track 2. Then PD automatically opens an empty track 3 - below track 2.
There should be no problem, removing this track 3 via context-menu "remove empty tracks".
B: manually choose "add new track" from the timeline symbol, piece of film with a green "+" (above the "lock track" lockers).
By default, PD offers you the position "below Track n" (whereas "n" is the highest number of already existing tracks.

Now, if I choose "add new track" and "above track 2", the former track 2 becomes 3. Adding a clip into (now) track 3 opens a track 4, adding a clip into track 4 opens track 5 and so on. Adding a clip into the inserted track 2 does not generate new tracks.
And now - oha! - I deleted the clips in the inserted track 2 and track former-2-now-3, leaving a clip in track 4, PD would, if I choose "delete empty tracks", delete one of the two empty tracks, leaving an empty (!) track 2 (plus the track 3 containing a clip!) - with no chance to remove track 2 !!

Deleting the remaining clip in (remaining) track 3 and "remove empty tracks" again, would leave me with an empty track 2.
This leads me to the idea, that for PD this track 2 - ANY track 2 ? - is kind of 'sacrosanct' and undeleteable. No matter, whether there are clips in it or not and regardless of whether further tracks exist.

Quite a lack of logic - for me.

Michael.
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EXR [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 26, 2012 20:32 Messages: 27 Offline
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Babindia, thanks for your screen shot. I don't quite agree to myself too. I seriously have no idea too.

Michael, thanks for your advise too. I managed to get around it. As to what is the logic behind I will just leave it as it is.
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Tidus [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Mar 16, 2012 08:54 Messages: 20 Offline
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Is it possible for you to use the empty track so it can be removed on your track list?
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EXR [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 26, 2012 20:32 Messages: 27 Offline
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Tidus, i don't quite understand your question?

Quote: Is it possible for you to use the empty track so it can be removed on your track list?
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Anonymous [Avatar]
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Another test:
Take a project with an empty track 2 (i.e.all clips are positioned in track 1, no other video tracks exist).
Add a clip to track 2 - a track 3 is generated.
Add a clip tp track 3 - a track 4 is generated.
Drag the clip from track 2 to track 4 - nothing happens (i.e.: there is no track 5 generated!), but track 2 is left empty.
Now choose "remove empty tracks" - nothing happens.
Drag the empty track 2 to a rank below (e.g.between 3 and 4, making it now to track 4 and track 4 to a new track 5)
"Remove empty tracks" - the empty track vanishes.
Variation #1: If you add a track "above track 4", you can remove it without problems - if left empty.
Variation #2: You may add a track "above track 4" and move it to position 2 - it will NOT be deleted, even when empty.

This means:
PD does NOT assume/expect an empty track 2, as long as tracks 3 or higher are in use.
Therefore it does not remove this empty track 2, as long as you keep it in position 2.
The very same track will be removed, when it becomes a track number higher than 2.

Odd, but a fact.

BTW: Can you reproduce, that I'm not able to move this (empty) track 2 to position 3 ?!

Michael.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Apr 20. 2012 13:36

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vn800rider
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1948 Offline
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Whilst not wishing to complicate an already complicated debate further, the reliance on the PD generated track number as the only ID makes following this thread difficult.

If the tracks are given a custom name, which is retained when tracks are moved/removed, then the logic (or lack of it) used by PD may become easier to demonstrate and to follow ??

Cheers
Adrian Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.
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Anonymous [Avatar]
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I should not know, what becomes more or less clear, if you give the tracks individual names.
But here's an attempt of it:

Take a project with an empty track 2 (i.e.all clips are positioned in track 1, no other video tracks exist).
>Rename video track 1 to "ALPHA" and video track 2 to "BRAVO".
Add a clip to track "BRAVO" - a track 3 is generated (which we rename to "CHARLIE").
Add a clip tp track "CHARLIE" - a track 4 is generated (name it "DELTA").
Drag the clip from track BRAVO to track DELTA - nothing happens (i.e.: there is no track 5 - which could become "ECHO" - generated!), but track BRAVO is left empty.
Now choose "remove empty tracks" - nothing happens.Drag the empty track BRAVO to a rank below (e.g.between CHARLIE and DELTA, making it now to track 3 - but the name remains BRAVO ) - [remark: ok, there was a 'bump' in my previous explanation!]
"Remove empty tracks" - the empty track BRAVO vanishes.
Perform an "undo" (to get track BRAVO back).
Variation #1: If you add a track "above track 4" (name this new track "ECHO"), you can remove it without problems - if left empty.
Perform an "undo" (to get track ECHO back).
Variation #2: Move track ECHO to a position between ALPHA and BRAVO it will NOT be deleted, even when empty.

This means:
the same as above with the numbers.

Michael.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 21. 2012 08:12

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EXR [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 26, 2012 20:32 Messages: 27 Offline
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Michael, this is exactly what happened to me and exactly what i mean by i cannot "remove empty track." When i did my production, i am using exactly the same way like your test. And when i need to remove track 2, i can't. Anyway Michael, thanks for all your testing. I have another way to work around it. And the another way is to move track 2 to the last timeline and then remove from there. It is possible.

Take a project with an empty track 2 (i.e.all clips are positioned in track 1, no other video tracks exist).
Add a clip to track 2 - a track 3 is generated.
Add a clip tp track 3 - a track 4 is generated.
Drag the clip from track 2 to track 4 - nothing happens (i.e.: there is no track 5 generated!), but track 2 is left empty.
Now choose "remove empty tracks" on track 2- nothing happens.
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vn800rider
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1948 Offline
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Thanks, that was easier to follow.

2 things I noted :-
if an empty track is removed and then replaced via undo, the custom name is lost. I can't image that that is a major issue (unless one accidentally removed a large number of custom named tracks thus having to rename them all again!)

BTW: Can you reproduce, that I'm not able to move this (empty) track 2 to position 3 ?!


I seem to be able to move any empty or full track anywhere, either by dragging or by the move menu option?

Cheers
Adrian

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.
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Anonymous [Avatar]
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@ Adrian,
You're welcome!
In fact, I've never used custom names for the tracks, therefore my primary "playing with numbers" - but probably working with more complex projects than I do can make it necessary.

@ EXR.
It seems that you came across a principle of PD by chance, but as soon as you remove an empty track from position "2", it becomes removeable again. - Luckily!

Michael.
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