Hi, question(s) related to performance/stability testing of PD10 and output production question

Waltermh

Newbie Location: A traveler Joined: Nov 29, 2011 09:36 Messages: 12 Offline

Solved by

Nov 29, 2011 10:08

Hi
1) My system profile is my signature.
I am using trial version of PowerDirector to test it against VideoStudio X4
So far I like it and despite all I have heard it has yet to crash, but I just tested by adding a few effects and transitions to 1080p files of length 2min and 4 min. I figured that would be enough to get an idea how well the system handles such high quality files.
Should I test it on 30min stuff, or is 4min enough?
Also, I am curious, is the trial version optimal performance wise? I mean I think the trial version has some limits right?

Speed is important to me as I will be working with alot of travel videos that will most likely be 1080p
But I also want stability and I have read alot about how unstable PowerDirector is for some people so want to test it properly against my system. If it only crashes once in awhile, I am ok with that. Just not multiple times each project.

Anyway
2) I hope this can be answered. Its somewhat related to PD10, sorry its wordy, but its related to PD10
I have a Panasonic HDC TM90. It has multople modes for 1080.
HX, HA, and 2 others I forget. Then it has a 5th mode that you can only turn on with a button which is the tru 1080p mode.

But I cant seem to find anywhere what all these other modes are besides their bitrate.

I am just concerned about HA really, second highest of the 5 modes. It can give me 40 more minutes of record time on 16GB memory card, I think uses a tiny bit less battery too.
To the question, my only concern is I want progressive scan.
1080p Highest mode does 60f, HA mode does 30f.

But I cant tell if thats 30f progressive or interlaced :/
I wont be recording anything thats lots of motion, which I think the 60f would matter for, right? 30f progressive would be fine.

Why it also matters is, when I did output to mp4, high quality, it made it 720p, which is what I want, but the source was 60f and the output is default 30f.
Now I know I can make it 60f and am about to test what the filesize difference is, but if I keep it at 30f, its dropping half the frames? How does it affect quality basically, the output didnt look bad, still, I am curious.

In the end, I would love to find that HA is 30f progressive and would be happy outputting equal frame with lower res.

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3) Little question, I love my new laptop but curious to compare the render time. I just added 3 effects and 2 transitions (fades) to my 1080p file, and rendered to 720p MP4.
4min file finished about 3340 I believe. The 2min file also finished about 1:40
So hows that for render time being just under the actual recording time? I am curious if the 5200 RPM HDD is making enough diff for me to want to change it or leave it. Windows 7
Intel i7 1.9 ghz quad core with overclock to 2.6
12GB RAM
NVidia 3GB 560M GPU
Sadly 5200 RPM Internal HDD

Waltermh

Newbie Location: A traveler Joined: Nov 29, 2011 09:36 Messages: 12 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 11:39

I did the test to see if 60p would change the size.
It didnt change the size at all.
and for a 4 min file that didnt have too much noise, i changed from 192kbs to 128kbs and it lowered the file size by about 1 MB
It would add up more for longer files, maybe for more complex audio clips, but what do yall think about lowering from 192 to 128, I dont think the quality is noticable, but do yall think it is and is worth the tradeoff? I cant tell how much space I would save but if for a 10min video I save 3MB I guess it wouldnt be worth lowering quality.
I just dont have the experience to know and trying to figure out the proper compromise between quality and size.

I want to keep these archived to see later. I plan to travel to many countries and see interesting things, and upload some stuff to youtube but archive the original in 720p with the best file size / quality compromise I can. Windows 7
Intel i7 1.9 ghz quad core with overclock to 2.6
12GB RAM
NVidia 3GB 560M GPU
Sadly 5200 RPM Internal HDD

All vodi

Senior Contributor Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 20:58

Most laptops are not ideal for HD editing. Yours is essentially capable as is. However, laptops cannot perform quite as fast as desktops due to the power limitations placed on them. If you're looking for speed a laptop is not the way to go. Win 10, i7

Waltermh

Newbie Location: A traveler Joined: Nov 29, 2011 09:36 Messages: 12 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 21:09

Well, its an Asus G74, high end gamer laptop. Really its overkill for gaming but as its all I will have on the trip and for a few years I wanted it to feel like a desktop.

But just on the performance issue, what is a good render time others get for files?

Like for a 15min file?

Also, does the HDD being 5400 or 7200 make more than a minor difference? Windows 7
Intel i7 1.9 ghz quad core with overclock to 2.6
12GB RAM
NVidia 3GB 560M GPU
Sadly 5200 RPM Internal HDD

All vodi

Senior Contributor Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 21:37

I edit 1920x1080 videos (interlaced and progressive, all AVCHD, just like your camcorder) and render them to the same format. AVCHD places a very high demand on a PC as it uses more compression and therefore requires more number crunching capability from a PC. With this scenario rendering time is usually 1.1 times the time of the original video. If I add fairly heavy video fixes, crops and trims the time can easily extend out to 1.7 times the original.

As for the Panasonic specs you mention, I recently looked at another Panasonic camcorder and found all the relevant specs. For your camcorder it states that the HA mode is 1920*1080 interlaced, 60 fps at 17 mbps (NTSC). (http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/hd/90_series/specifications.html)

I also meant to tell you that by altering the rendering to a smaller format of 720p you will be adding to the total time required to render.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Nov 29. 2011 21:46

Win 10, i7

Waltermh

Newbie Location: A traveler Joined: Nov 29, 2011 09:36 Messages: 12 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 21:56

Hmm, odd, my output from the camera says 30f but that doesnt matter so much.
I just like progressive, reducing blur of moving objects right?
But I think I had asked, if I record in 1080p 60f mode, does rendering it to 30f affect anything, am i losing half the frames?

On a similar note, if I were to shoot at the HA mode how does it affect things to render an interlaced video as progressive? I dont get how that works.

I uploaded an HA mode file. If I read correct, interlace means it shoots at 60 frames but its really 30 interlaced?
So maybe the properties show 30 but the spec says 60 because its interlaced?

So if I render if progressive, is it as if I recorded it progressive, or nearly as good? Windows 7
Intel i7 1.9 ghz quad core with overclock to 2.6
12GB RAM
NVidia 3GB 560M GPU
Sadly 5200 RPM Internal HDD

BarryTheCrab

Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 22:03

Hard drives are not very expensive, I chose 7200 rpm for my laptops to gain ANY possible advantage.
Go for the 7200rpm drive. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

All vodi

Senior Contributor Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 22:17

You're on the right track. The recording is 60 fps interlaced (alternate lines) = 30 fps progressive (consecutive lines).

Rendering from p to i or the reverse has minimal affect on rendering time and the quality is very good.

FYI - the 5200 rpm of your PC is fine. Your PC has ample memory to handle the pipeline of video streaming. Win 10, i7

Waltermh

Newbie Location: A traveler Joined: Nov 29, 2011 09:36 Messages: 12 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 22:27

Well, expense is relative, but the issue is more the trouble of redoing all that I have done with this comp or the extra expense of cloning it to the new one.
I was just curious, if the 4min render is anything to go by, I can render fast enough. Will see what happens when I do my first trip movies, they will be longer projects.

Anyway, I should have uploaded the 2min file since i am only showing that it says 30f
but its up, 175MB avchd
http://www.mediafire.com/?xa0wadvth7hxlpb

Probably a moot point though
Basically, the final question of this issue.
If I record the HA mode and render it progressive, do you think the 60p mode is worth the extra space it takes up for travel videos?

I am sure its more for fast moving stuff so I guess the correct answer is its situational? Windows 7
Intel i7 1.9 ghz quad core with overclock to 2.6
12GB RAM
NVidia 3GB 560M GPU
Sadly 5200 RPM Internal HDD

jerrys

Senior Contributor Location: New Britain, CT, USA (between New York and Boston) Joined: Feb 10, 2010 21:36 Messages: 1038 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 22:29

I would think your machine is quite powerful enough, although there's no such thing as too much power.

That beast must have a short battery life. Jerry Schwartz

Waltermh

Newbie Location: A traveler Joined: Nov 29, 2011 09:36 Messages: 12 Offline

Nov 29, 2011 22:35

Yeah, I ordered a second battery for the trip, alot of extra weight, but necessary.
But the battery isnt too bad with the powersaving options, like I can keep the cpu below a certain power level and other little things, which is fine for anything but if I were editing, yeah, I think just under or over 2 hours with the 8cell and sadly thats the only kind of battery asus sells for it.
I would only render when I could be plugged in, and other times the batteries are for when I am in a remote area. Windows 7
Intel i7 1.9 ghz quad core with overclock to 2.6
12GB RAM
NVidia 3GB 560M GPU
Sadly 5200 RPM Internal HDD