I have used PowerProducer and it seemed to me that the quality was the same. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM

As I suspected. Thanks Jaime. I have owned PP for a while, but never used it. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

I go off the reservation in your words. I find for my Canon HD 24 Mbps H264 raw footage and the motion in my videos I can get much better MPEG2 encoding off the reservation. I make sure when the footage is used in PD to edit, SVRT will be used when I create the DVD folder. Sounds trivial, but it's been a moving target with various versions of PD so what worked for me in say PD8 will not get SVRT applied in PD10. Sadly, I always need to reinvent what new "Smarts" CL put in SVRT that is not working in the next release for my work flow.

I had suggested in the PD6 update to PD7 time frame if CL would have more of a "Prosumer" MPEG2 encoder (even multi pass) that could be a real product differentiator and add significant value and probably customers, oh well, just a brain fart. Even with all the HD in today’s world, many still use DVD for larger audiences. For my editing, Bluray for myself, DVD for others!

Jeff

So if you want your video (SD & HD) from PD to go on DVD,
what format would you render to before using that file in something else?
As for menus, I just discovered Windows DVD Maker, free of course, with menus that obliterate PD's, though you cannot specify chapter points. It appears the disc is a little better quality also.
Sorry Cyberlink, but I have paid my dues here since V5, beta-tested, and carried the water (uphill) for many years now. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

I do all my editing in PD, I just don't like PD to do much encoding, I'd rather it use SVRT when possible. My work flow is as follows and should address your question in detail:

1) I take 100's of raw Canon HD mts files (via the playlist) into a utility to mux them together a create 1 large file, call the file raw.mts. Takes only a couple of minutes as no rendering is done, just file joining. This alone can speed up PD a fair amount as PD does not like lots of small clips in the TL for editing, during Produce, or Create Disc. Even PD10 with the new smarter SVRT with many files during create disc discussed in a bullet here http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/19428.page#101990
2) I take file raw.mts created in (1) into a utility to render a MPEG2 file which will be compliant with PD SVRT DVD HQ settings, file render.mpg. I do this for video quality as I've not been happy with what PD does in converting Canon HD 24Mbps raw to DVD HQ. Too many artifacts, pixilation, jitters, shutters, quivers for me....these all depend on what you film though so many users might be happy.
3) I use file render.mpg created in (2) inside PD timeline to do all my editing
4) I create a DVD folder with DVD HQ, SVRT is used behind the scene so my render.mpg is virtually untouched except for edit areas that need to be encoded. My 30-60 minute DVD HQ folder often created in under 5 minutes.
5) I now have my good DVD HQ master Folder for my video project.

For the HD disc I:
6) Manually edit the pds file from above and change reference pointer in the file of render.mpg to raw.mts. I now have a new pds file with the identical edits and identical footage, just all HD now.
7) I create Blu-ray folder with H.264 (raw footage spec) and now I have my Blu-ray master Folder. Again since I used the same create Blu-ray folder video spec as my raw.mts file, SVRT is used and folder is created in minutes.

The above workflow offers the following advantages for me:
1) I'm always editing DVD HQ quality mpg footage so editing CPU load in PD is significantly reduced. My system just flys with this.
2) I edit only once and end up with the capability for both a DVD HQ and a Blu-ray H264 disc that PD does not encode (SVRT) for a large portion of my video. Only edit areas are encoded by PD.
3) I keep all my stuff in various folders all with the raw video files processed as above. So if I pull in some footage from another folder into my current pds project, that folder structure will also have the HD version there as well. So when I save my final pds file and edit to convert to HD, all my folder structures have both the DVD HQ mpg quality and HD mts files so no issues.
4) I only absorb the time to convert footage once, when I combine multiple footage clips nothing ever needs to be encoded again, it's all SVRT compatible to make either a DVD HQ or Bluray project.

The workflow above works for what I need to do, everyone’s mileage may vary. I produce about 60 unique discs and about 900 DVD HQ copies and 120 Blu-rays copies a year and can not be messing with DVD quality or work flow issues on 60 projects, I don't have enough hair left!

Jeff

Man oh man, Jeff, that seems like a boatload of work, especially for someone doing so much production.
Where is PD failing, in the DVD-HQ render, in the creation of the disc folder, or in the actual burn to disc?
I was thinking if I edit in PD, then create an HD, or higher bitrate SD rendered file, I could use a different program to actually get the bugger on a disc with better results. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

I thought this was your initial question,

Quote: Do those products fare better in the final output quality, or do I need to go off the reservation?

I think I answered it that I left the reservation. Why, for my video's PD encoding of Canon HD 24Mbps to DVD HQ introduces too many encode artifacts relative to other products. I do find PD to be a reasonable editor, just not an MPEG2 encoder from HD to SD DVD HQ, so I rely on PD's SVRT feature extensively.

Quote: Where is PD failing, in the DVD-HQ render, in the creation of the disc folder, or in the actual burn to disc?

I think I answered why I do it:

Quote: I do this for video quality as I've not been happy with what PD does in converting Canon HD 24Mbps raw to DVD HQ. Too many artifacts, pixilation, jitters, shutters, quivers for me....these all depend on what you film though so many users might be happy.

Not really a boatload of work at all. As I said, everyone's mileage may vary, if you are happy with the PD quality of HD to DVD HQ for your footage, forge on.

Jeff

Jeff,

I also experience significant artifacts, shimmers, etc. They are especially bad when using pans on still photos. Do you insert still photos into your work? If so, what workflow do you follow to preserve the highest quality of the photos in the final production?

Yes, I incorporate several stills. Adjustment depends what in the motion of the still causes the problem, for instance, a pic with horizontal lines will often have issues when motion is applied. Jittery lines as it pans from initial to final location.
Two things can often help to correct or mask these issues, sharpen or Gaussion blur. Again, just a touch, nothing overboard and not to everything! How much Gaussion blur to use also depends on frame size. Keep in mind the downfall of this is increased render times for those areas, this however is usually very tolerable for the improvement.

Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. Are you able to produce relatively good quality stills in SD DVD mode? I realize they will not look like HD but the stills in my SD productions are quite bad. How do you handle the stills for maximum quality in SD productions? Also, do you use AVCHD to render the stills in your HD productions?

Yes, the quality is pretty good, good enough for my eyes; I only have a 40" flatscreen TV to play them on though. Viewing quality on some stand alone players can be affected by upscale setting.

I don't know of a way to partially render stills in one format and the rest of the video in a different format in a write to disk processes, so yes, my HD prjects are Blu-ray, H.264, 24Mbps to match my source video specs.

Jeff