see above

Hi pcj,

Thanks for taking the time with the comparison shots etc. and explanatory comments.

You are quite correct, the PD quality should be better.

I think it is also worth mentioning to new videographers that much depends on how one intends to view their DVDs. I view my DVDs on either a CRT TV or via a projector on a 3 metre screen and the resolution difference is not noticeable.

If playing back on a plasma or an LCD, then the difference would of course be apparent.

Hopefully Cyberlink can fix this quality issue so we can streamline our workflow.

Windows 7 - i7 860, 8Gb RAM, 2 x 1 TB HDD, GTS 250 1Gb Video

Folks,

This is my first post here so please be gentle. I'm writing this while attempting to burn a AVCHD DVD with PD7 sucessfully. (My first 3 attempts died.)

Background:

Although not a newbie to Camcorders and such (I bought my first one a JVC VHS-C decades ago) I am new to PD7. I recently migrated from my second camera, a Panasonic 3CCD PV-GS70 => which was awesome in it's day => to a Sony HDR-SR12. My Brother had gotten a Sony HDR-SR12 last summer and I was blown away by the video quality when he showed me Waterskiing footage he had done. So when Christmas was coming around, I put this on my wish list as a lark (they are dam expensive) and I was floored when my misses got me one.

I have been working with Pinnacle Studio for editing since version 7 and lived through too far many of their growing pains to document here. My Brother (who has been into Sony Hi 8 Camcorders before his Sony HDR-SR12) still has versions 9, 10, and skipped to 12 recently => but neither of us were really close to being satisfied until 12 Ultimate. But that was for Standard Definition. Now we are both (notice how we try to keep on the same platform this time?) are dabbling in HD.

I'm a bit of a computer geek so when we read one needed a Quad core processor to get into HD, I changed his CPU to an Intel Q6700 before Christmas (I had seen his video from the camera - not edited onto disk - he said the Sony Editor "stuttered" when editing HD with his Pentium D chip) and moved him up to 4 gigs of RAM (even though it's Win XP 32 bit => I know it only utilises about 3 gigs depending on video and other on board memory).

Once I got my Sony HDR-SR12, I bought a new Intel QX6850 and 4 Gigs of quicker Corsair Ram as well. I've set up both boxes with numerous Hard Drives - one dedicated for the OS and just video editing programs - no anti-virus, games, photo editors, nothing, one more for incoming Video Storage, and another for catching the rendered output (think DVD images / folders). All Drives are defragged regularly. I installed an EVGA GTX 260 (216 Core) last week as it has CUDA and lots (~900 Megs) of DDR3 Ram.

Both of us have PS3s (BluRay) and I've used the Sony software to on my first test videos (one indoor and another outdoor). I've viewed them via camcorder and DVD (AVCHD) on my 52 inch Toshiba HD TV and they are fantastic when compared to similar video produced on the Panasonic PV-GS70 and shown direct, or via Pinnacle produced DVDs.

Sony's bundled software works great to make DVDs that play in HD on the PS3, but they are simplistic with rudamentary menus, no transistions, etc. (But it's dam fast compared to PD7 or Studio!) I've tried to get Pinnacle 12 working with these same source files and it just can't get there yet. Their support Forum is full of stories of Woe with HD. It fails at Rendering to DVD files. Even though I've got years of experience with Studio, I'm looking for another more solid program that's reliable for all types of video. If it can't do HD reliably I'll move on. I've banged my head against the wall too much already with Pinnacle => and to a far, far lesser extent PD7.

I've held back moving to Adobe Premier Pro, Liquid Edition, or Sony Vegas, as the level of complexity in Pinnacle (and here in PD7) was all I really needed. But now I'm thinking I may need to move to one of those programs, and their near vertical learning curve to get reliable results.

Hey, PD7 just said it's Burned the DVD sucessfully and popped it out. So I'd better go test it and stop bending your ear with this rambling rant. I just like to know if PD7, like Studio 12, is really not ready for Prime Time as far as HD goes. Care to advise?

Thanks for reading this far.

Regards,

Jim

P.S. By the way, I as yet don't understand the need to "Produce" a video into a file the later Create a disk. These processes, if sucessful, seem to take a long time. I'm used to rendering in Pinnacle to DVD Folders and then I burn it in minutes with Nero as Pinnacle's burning app has been poorly done... Care to comment? Thx.
Regards,

Jim

Asus Z87-A Motherboard - O/C if needed to about 4.6 Ghz.
Intel i7 4770K CPU
16 Gigs Corsair Vengeance DDR3 Ram
OCZ 448 Gig SSD (for OS and related Video Editing Programs)
1 TB, 1.5 TB, and 3 TB Data Drives - Slide in Drawers as needed.
LG's HL-DT-ST BD-RE BH10LS30 Blu ray Burner
Samsung SH-S223F 16x DVD Burner
Gigabyte GTX 660Ti NVidia Geforce Graphics Card

Hi Jim,
What a post for your first!
It sounds familiar

Having used all the software you mentioned plus another or two I have settled on PD as my main editor for HD (Pana SD9) as a good compromise between features and simplicity.

My only suggestion, which works best for me, is to create DVD folders on the HDD with PD then burn with another application. It sounds like you are doing this anyway. Also use GPU encoding as it renders AVCHD better than non-GPU

Hi Jim,

You may want to check out this post.

http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/5480.page

Also, take pjc's advice. He knows what he's talking about.



Jim Q9300 2.5 GHz
4 GB Ram
Nvidia 9800 GT

OMG!

James / pjc => Thanks for the advice and links. I read the Thread on AVCHD Final Render Quality. This looks like this is Pinnacle all over again but this time with PD7 in AVCHD.

Ten (10!!) months with no resolution you must be livid I think that's what Pinnacle Studio did every year.

I'll expect PD8 to roll out with this as a main feature of the upgrade .

But seriously, are you gents going to wait longer or are you actively looking to other software packages for resolution? I still can't get over software companies selling packages that simply don't work as advertised. But we keep buying the stuff!

I can't get over how slick the basic Sony software is but it's really too bad it doesn't have the bells and whistles I want like Studio or PD7. By the way, the AVCHD on DVD Test Video I made with PD7 did play in the PS3.

Next time I'll try to the GPU encoding (I tried it in a previous attempt, but it failed. I'm unsure if that drive has the current nVidia drivers so that may have been the problem. ) It's not explained very well in PD7, but when you create the Files / Folders in Produce can I just burn those to a DVD (using Nero) and it'll play? Sorry if this sounds too newbie but PD is very new to me.

Thanks again.

Regards,

Jim Regards,

Jim

Asus Z87-A Motherboard - O/C if needed to about 4.6 Ghz.
Intel i7 4770K CPU
16 Gigs Corsair Vengeance DDR3 Ram
OCZ 448 Gig SSD (for OS and related Video Editing Programs)
1 TB, 1.5 TB, and 3 TB Data Drives - Slide in Drawers as needed.
LG's HL-DT-ST BD-RE BH10LS30 Blu ray Burner
Samsung SH-S223F 16x DVD Burner
Gigabyte GTX 660Ti NVidia Geforce Graphics Card

Hi Jim,

the burn problems in PD are not all related to the physical burn process but some are. As always with software, the problem is intermittent (in my case anyway). So I use PD to edit then save as a file to my HDD (but this is because I have a networked media player capable of playback of AVCHD & Mpeg2 1080i). BUT I also burn AVCHD hybrid discs for playback on PS3. To do this I author the disc in PD then "Burn to folder" option thus not using PD to burn the disc. From here I use ImgBurn or DVDClone to actually physically burn the disc and verify the burn.

This has been the most reliable way for me.

As for the GPU encoder, you definitely need to have the latest Nvidia driver installed.

Hi pjc,

I"ve done the Burn to Folder bit but and then put it onto a DVD. It seems to work but I wonder what the purpose of the Produce Tab is in these cases? I'm only into producing home movies and not posting to the Web, YouTube, etc. Am I missing something by jumping straight through to the Create Disk Tab as I don't see a use for the Produce Tab for my Projects?

The HD Files produced so far by PD7 seem quite comparable on the 52 inch Toshiba to what the Sony software did => but with a few added value transitions, a menu with embedded moving video buttons, etc. : It seems strange the Produce Tab has timers, but nothing is in the Burn to Folder portion of the program.

Is there a Thread here with a sequence on how to go from AVCHD from a Sony Camcorder straight thru to making DVD Folders? (I don't want to hijack this one )

Thanks for the assist Regards,

Jim

Asus Z87-A Motherboard - O/C if needed to about 4.6 Ghz.
Intel i7 4770K CPU
16 Gigs Corsair Vengeance DDR3 Ram
OCZ 448 Gig SSD (for OS and related Video Editing Programs)
1 TB, 1.5 TB, and 3 TB Data Drives - Slide in Drawers as needed.
LG's HL-DT-ST BD-RE BH10LS30 Blu ray Burner
Samsung SH-S223F 16x DVD Burner
Gigabyte GTX 660Ti NVidia Geforce Graphics Card

Jim,

I use the Produce feature in two different ways. First, when working on big projects it's easier to Produce different sections, chapters, or ideas and then simply assemble all the Produced files together to make the final project. Secondly, I use Produce to simply make a MPEG4 file. I can burn a MPEG4 file to a DVD (single or dual layer) and a PS3 will play it. No menu, just my video file.

Jeff

Jeff,

I guess assembling the different sections of a movie can reduce it to more managable "chunks" amd then Produce makes sense.

I like making a more "complete" project (Menus, transitions, music, etc., ) so my family will actually watch them at least once .

I just noticed my Sony HDR-SR12 was set on HD SP (AVC HD 7M SP) rather than HD FH (AVC HD 16M FH). Boy do I feel dumb . I can hardly wait to see if the higher bit rate transfers to better looking recordings. Or will this make rendering the project more risky as I remember reading some conflicting posts on that. (Comments Please!)

My last attempt Burning to Folder was successful but the Disk I burned with Nero wouldn't play on the PS3. (I'll try again.)

Do you have 100% sucess in making decent DVDs with PD7 or should I set my sites a little lower?

Thanks for the input.

Regards,

Jim Regards,

Jim

Asus Z87-A Motherboard - O/C if needed to about 4.6 Ghz.
Intel i7 4770K CPU
16 Gigs Corsair Vengeance DDR3 Ram
OCZ 448 Gig SSD (for OS and related Video Editing Programs)
1 TB, 1.5 TB, and 3 TB Data Drives - Slide in Drawers as needed.
LG's HL-DT-ST BD-RE BH10LS30 Blu ray Burner
Samsung SH-S223F 16x DVD Burner
Gigabyte GTX 660Ti NVidia Geforce Graphics Card

Quote:
I guess assembling the different sections of a movie can reduce it to more managable "chunks" amd then Produce makes sense.

I like making a more "complete" project (Menus, transitions, music, etc., ) so my family will actually watch them at least once .

What we are getting at here is that if you are making a large movie with lots of footage, PD gets a bit sluggish (may even become non-responsive). So to make it more manageable I take say 40 or so clips (eg 20 mins worth) and edit with transitions/effects/titles etc then produce that to HDD, save the project, close it and then start a new one. Do this again with another chunk of footage.
Then you can add the produced files into yet another project but now there is only 3 files for PD to handle. I usually add the music to the last project as I now have two free audio tracks to merge & cross fade etc.
When you produce the last time (complete movie) the video isn't rendered again as it is PD compliant and SVRT kicks in.

Hi pjc,

You wrote:

then produce that to HDD, save the project, close it and then start a new one.

and:

When you produce the last time (complete movie) the video isn't rendered again as it is PD compliant

When you say "produce to HDD", at what format/setting (Mpeg2, Mpeg4 AVC, WMV HD, etc), are you suggessting that, when reloaded into the final project, will result in it being "PD compliant", thus "won't be re-rendered"?
And does this... "won't be re-rendered" only apply to when one goes directly to creating a disc? Or does it also apply if you now again just "produce again" to WMV HD, or Mpeg2, or whatever?
I've always been a bit confused by this render, re-render, and now won't re-render aspect of how PD works.

Click here PDtoots for a collection of PowerDirector Tutorials and Tips

Hi Cranston,

When I split a big project into sub-projects I render each sub-project to the format the final format will be.

Eg if you are going to make an AVCHD disc for PS3 playback then render each file to AVCHD. If you are going to make a DVD then render sub-projects to DVD format. Then when you create disc with the rendered files from the sub-projects, PowerDirecector will use SVRT and create the disc structure without re-encoding all the video again (assuming you are not using GPU rendering - PD actually warns you of this). Of course the menus etc will have to be rendered but the main body of video won't be.

My only evidence that this is occurring is by CPU utilisation: if it re-encodes my Quad core sits on about 95% while creating disc, when SVRT is active it sits on 5%.

I can't comment on WMV HD as I don't use this format.

Hope this helps explain it.

Hi pjc,

Hope this helps explain it.

Yes that helps a lot. I guess it's pretty obvious that staying with the same format makes sense, but I was never completely sure if the whole render/re-render/won't re-render thing was, owing to the way PD worked, tied to a specific format or not. So thanks for confirming and clearing that up for me. I appreciate it. Click here PDtoots for a collection of PowerDirector Tutorials and Tips

VBRoger,

As the header on the main page of these Cyberlink Forums says…

This is a forum for CyberLink members to discuss and share their users' experience. CyberLink customer support will not reply in the forum regarding the technical issues. Topics or replies with attacking or illegal messages will be deleted by the forum management directly.

Please take your “calling out” and "dares" here…
https://membership.cyberlink.com/prog/support/cs/service/technical-support.do


Click here PDtoots for a collection of PowerDirector Tutorials and Tips

In answer to VBRoger's post - I deleted it.

Cranston, thank you for your post, spot on. VBRoger, please read.

Dafydd
[Moderator]