Quote: As long as it works for you and you are happy with the quality then all is good. Quality is very much in the eye of the observer and the type of footage one is working with.

Quote: I put all the files into the timeline and edited out the junk. I then produced a .m2ts file at default settings.
Now I have a 13 gb file to work with.

Typical approach here would be to create a "Produce" profile that matches your source footage. "Intelligent SVRT" often good for identifying a profile but maybe not ideal to encode the footage with SVRT. Your produced .m2ts at "default", whatever setting that is, may or may not be the best. Again, if you are happy with the results, that's what counts.

Quote: DVD was burned at default settings, (MPEG2) and the BD disc as H.264. VERY pleased with the results of both formats.

Similar thoughts here, one has 3 very common different H.264 settings for putting basic HD 1920x1080 content timeline unto a BD. The quality can be vastly different, 16Mbps bitrate vs 28Mbps interlaced or progressive can be very significant quality difference for some footage. Again, if you are happy with your BD, that's what counts.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I'm also confused. I have a 30 min HD project with 1920x1080 slides and 1080 50p MP4 clips. When I Create Disk the quality looks good for AVCHD DVD (needs a BluRay player) and BluRayDVD but if I Create a normal DVD from the project quality is terrible with noise and flicker. If I Produce the project to a file and then re-import into PDR13 and Create Disc using DVD what is the best format to use? I can't see where M2TS would help as PDR would still re-convert to MPEG2. Could you recommend a "standard" approach to get best quality 9.8 Mbit/sec MPEG2 quality DVD-R from a 1920x1080 50p HD project?

Thanks,

Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

Quote: Could you recommend a "standard" approach to get best quality 9.8 Mbit/sec MPEG2 quality DVD-R from a 1920x1080 50p HD project?

I don't know of any way to achieve a 9.8Mbps MPEG2 quality DVD-R with PD13. Yes, I know 9.8Mbps is the capability of the DVD video stream, just not with PD13. Often authoring packages downgrade from the spec a little as some older players (and certain media) may have playback difficulty if the full 10.08 Mbps audio and video stream is utilized. From what I know, this point for PD13 is ~8.3Mbps video. Anything higher than this and PD13 will resample to lower the bitrate.

Therefore, I know of no standard approach to achieve the 9.8Mbps MPEG2 on a DVD media with only PD.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,
If 9.8Mbps is not possible could you suggest a procedure to get best possible quality from PDR13. ie: should I produce my project to MPEG2 with PDR13 and then re-import to Create Disk, or produce to H.264 HD MP4 50p file and use third party converter to convert from MP4 to MPEG2 25p and import to PDR13 and Create DVD?

Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

Quote: Thanks Jeff,
If 9.8Mbps is not possible could you suggest a procedure to get best possible quality from PDR13. ie: should I produce my project to MPEG2 with PDR13 and then re-import to Create Disk, or produce to H.264 HD MP4 50p file and use third party converter to convert from MP4 to MPEG2 25p and import to PDR13 and Create DVD?

Al

For me, NTSC, I don't have much experience with PAL but overall I'd think rather similar. I'm not one for constant conversion, it just adds artifacts in my opinion. For PAL, PD when it creates the DVD is going to be MPEG2, ~8.3Mbps, interlaced, 720x576. To keep it really simple to me you really have two options with PD:

1) Simply use current timeline and create a DVD. If quality is acceptable, you are done.
2) Produce current timeline to MPEG2, DVD HQ preset in PD. Drop this produce file into the timeline and then create DVD. Pick best between this and item 1.

Some claim route 2 is better, I've not seen that with any of my footage on standalone playback devices. When some say quality is poor, maybe, however, there is no way it will look like 1920x1080 24Mbps footage. Others compare to purchased DVD's, again, PD will never match that, especially for dynamic panning footage.

Make sure your standalone devices have the upscaling feature and enabled. Upscaling is a process that mathematically matches the pixel count of the output of the DVD signal to the physical pixel count on an HDTV.

Jeff

Jeff.
Thanks again for your help.
I have only tried with PAL at a display rate of 25 frames per second, interlaced - 720×576 pixels so I don't know about NTSC results for DVD quality.

As I said before, Option 1) (Create DVD from the HD timeline) is not acceptable (terrible) quality.
If I Produce a MPEG2 DVD HQ preset file in PDR13 and the use ADD FILE in Create Disc, will the added file remain unchanged on the DVD or will PDR13 convert it?

If I create a Custom MPEG2 profile with an average bitrate of 9Mbps and a maximum of 9.8Mbps (see attached) will Create Disc retain those custom settings? (please check my "Mode" and "Advanced Settings" in the custom profile to see if my settings are the best for DVD quality.

Your comment: "there is no way it will look like 1920x1080 24Mbps footage. Others compare to purchased DVD's, again, PD will never match that, especially for dynamic panning footage." is valid but I have purchased and seen many non-professional locally produced DVDs with far better viewing quality than I am able to produce with PDR13.

I am viewing the DVDs with 1) A Samsung LCD 1080p HD TV and a Samsung DVD player and 2) A 52" Sony 1080p HD LCD TV and a Samsung Home Theater system with a BluRay Player and a USB Port. Not sure about the "upscaling" feature. In both cases my PDR13 DVDs look bad compared to others.

Bitrate may not be the problem. I have attached a MediaInfo comparison. My PDR13 DVD is on the left side and a locally produced DVD (fishing) withy much better viewing quality (lower bitrate) on the right. I have highlighted the video differences in yellow. Note the audio format is also different.

Al






Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

Your created file of 9-9.8 Mbps will be reduced to the PD designed bitrate when in Create Disc.
You can always use your file in another application, though.
I thought Jeff found a way around that a few years back, a slightly higher bitrate would "fool" PowerDirector to not re-encode, if I understood his theory (doubtful!).
My personal opinion, for what it's worth, PD makes DVDs just fine, any lack of PQ is due to a poor workflow or even original footage that just isn't that good to begin with, magnified by the DVD standard. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

Quote: Jeff.
Thanks again for your help.
I have only tried with PAL at a display rate of 25 frames per second, interlaced - 720×576 pixels so I don't know about NTSC results for DVD quality.

As I said before, Option 1) (Create DVD from the HD timeline) is not acceptable (terrible) quality.
If I Produce a MPEG2 DVD HQ preset file in PDR13 and the use ADD FILE in Create Disc, will the added file remain unchanged on the DVD or will PDR13 convert it?

If I create a Custom MPEG2 profile with an average bitrate of 9Mbps and a maximum of 9.8Mbps (see attached) will Create Disc retain those custom settings? (please check my "Mode" and "Advanced Settings" in the custom profile to see if my settings are the best for DVD quality.

Al

No I would not use a profile like that. The Create Disc operation will reduce the bitrate to ~8.3Mbps and change progressive to interlaced. If you use the default DVD HQ preset, the Create Disc operation will leave it untouched.

Can you post the really bad VTS_01_1.VOB on a share drive?


Jeff

Thanks Barry - I edited the post after your reply and added more info.
If the problem is workflow or original footage (garbage in - garbage out) I would assume it would affect the HD AVCHD and BluRay DVDs but both are excellent quality.
Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

Hi Jeff - unfortunately my internet here on my farm is veeery slow (like bush telegraph with drums) so my uploads fail on large files.

Please check my MediaInfo files attached to my post. Not sure if the differences are significant.

Thanks

Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

A search of this forum show that some PD users are able to create a dvd that has a higher bit rate output. More than one poster have done it by using PD to produce a file and then author it with a different software. Here is one such post: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/43222.page#223404 . This would involve more than 1 software for those willing to try.

A forum search on this subject can reveal interesting posts.

Quote: Please check my MediaInfo files attached to my post. Not sure if the differences are significant.

Thanks for the added details.

Quote: Bitrate may not be the problem. I have attached a MediaInfo comparison. My PDR13 DVD is on the left side and a locally produced DVD (fishing) withy much better viewing quality (lower bitrate) on the right. I have highlighted the video differences in yellow..

What do you mean by "locally produced". To me the results on the right look like it's coming from a commercial based company with access to much higher end capability, correct? For a consumer single pass encoder bitrate is everything, not exactly true with high end multipass encoders. One can't just compare straightup bitrate, good indicator, but not for cross platform encoders. As I said, many commercial DVD's will have far superior quality (and lower bitrate) to any consumer encoder like PD, but, often technology out of reach for the avg user, $$$.

Take your video source files to the “locally produced” DVD place and ask them to make a disc for you, just to see what it looks like. I had done that here with a local media company and it was absolutely night and day different, action sport DVD. Horizontal and vertical lines on the court caused massive issues for PD and low light situations when going to DVD. After that I too purchased a rather expensive mid/high end encoder (multi pass) and it does a much better DVD than PD lower end consumer encoder. But, the question on this PD forum is what can PD do.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,
Will do. The fishing DVD was done by some of my fishing pals to promote their family tackle shop. Low budget but I'll speak to the camera man who is a pal of theirs as I'm not sure what NLE, DVD encoder and hardware he uses.

Are the MediaInfo differences significant in terms of quality?
What encoder did you get? Is it using a different codec?

I got Power2Go 10 Deluxe with my PDR14 upgrade - any chance it might do a better job if I produce a higher quality MPEG2 file with PDR13?

Thanks for the advice - will let you know what I find.
Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

Quote: Thanks Jeff,
Will do. The fishing DVD was done by some of my fishing pals to promote their family tackle shop. Low budget but I'll speak to the camera man who is a pal of theirs as I'm not sure what NLE, DVD encoder and hardware he uses.

Are the MediaInfo differences significant in terms of quality?
What encoder did you get? Is it using a different codec?

I got Power2Go 10 Deluxe with my PDR14 upgrade - any chance it might do a better job if I produce a higher quality MPEG2 file with PDR13?

Thanks for the advice - will let you know what I find.
Al

You can use PD to create a DVD with lower bitrate and see for yourself. Approach was discussed here http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/21720.page#115878 (PD10 but approach still works) discussion for NTSC but the same approach for PAL. You essentially just modify the profile as you had done earlier and reduce the bitrate, 4000 avg, 4300 max so about half the PD default of 8300 as was shown in your MediaInfo on the left. Verify the created VOB with MediaInfo to validate reduced bitrate was achieved. Burn to DVD and view in your player for quality.

Bitrate, to me yes, for a given product a 10% change in bitrate is often tough to spot, a ~50% like above, very obvious. Again, it's a little tough to quantify as I'm still unsure if you have "good" quality PD13 DVD but not meeting your standards or if your PD13 DVD has some anomaly leading to a very "poor" quality and not meeting your standards.

I don't use Power2Go so I don't know. I'd would doubt it though, product synergy would imply probably the same technology, barring any coding bugs.

I won't comment on alternate encoder as these products are in CL wheelhouse, one could say they complete with PD and/or MediaEspresso so disrespectful on a CL forum.

Jeff