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[IMPROVED WITH BETA PATCH 2908!!!] Slow editing issues with nVidia GTX 7xx cards on Win 8.1
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5450 Offline
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BabIndia, I'm glad PD12 is working for you. Ynotfish/Tony, RobAC and GGRussell, thank you all very much for your inputs on this.

Rather than it being a Win8.1 or Haswell issue, it now appears that this is an issue between PD12 and the nVidia GTX 7xx cards on Win8.1.

Per RobAC's brilliant suggestion, I physically removed my $800 GTX780 card and used the i7 4770's built in HD4600 video.

**** Bingo! ****

The Fade2 window opened in 1.2 seconds, and my Pixelan control window that was taking 15 seconds to open in a more complex project now took 3.5 seconds. Now we're getting somewhere!

When I physically reinstalled the GTX card and enabled it in the BIOS, but left a single monitor connected to the HD4600/motherboard graphics port, the delay was back - but "only" about 4.3 seconds, or about halfway between the no GTX (no delay) setup and the GTX with 1 or 2 monitors attached (big delay).

I'm in the middle of testing various combinations and settings, and so far I can say using 1 vs. 2 monitors; using 30fps vs. 60fps vs. various HW acceleration settings in PD; and using NVidia drivers 332.21 vs. 335.23 drivers have very little effect on the delay when using the GTX card. The Fade2 window delay is always around 7 seconds. It also doesn't matter if the HD4600 display adapter is enabled or disabled in the BIOS. As long as the GTX 7xx video card is driving the monitor(s), the big delay is present.

I can also say that it doesn't look like a card vendor issue. I tried my older EVGA GTX 770 card, and it had the same long delays as my ASUS GTX 780Ti - that's why I think it's a GTX 7xx chipset/driver+PD issue, which has bitten us before.

Look back at this thread at the people who had new/fast CPUs and no delay problems: BillyR, BabIndia, and 2 of Tony/ynotfish's machines all are running GTX 6xx or earlier. GGRussell and RobAC are running AMD and Intel video chips. Now look at the people with the problem: me (GTX 780 and GTX 770), 1Nina (GTX770M) and Tony's machine with the GT(X?) 740M. ALL 7xx series, ALL running Win8.1, ALL affected.

Cyberlink - there's your focus!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Mar 20. 2014 01:58



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babindia
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: India Joined: Aug 16, 2007 06:11 Messages: 884 Offline
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Optodata

Just a ponder

Have you disabled 3D and Geforce experience program options when you installed the driver.
Try if you have not. Maybe you will be in luck PC specs :
OS Windows 10.0 Pro
MB - AS rock Z77 extreme 11
Intel 3770K @ 4.0 Ghz OC
Gskill 32 GB RAM 1800 Mhz
6 TB HDD, SSD bootable
nVidia ASUS GTX 660 Ti
BenQ 22" LCD monitor 1920x1080

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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5450 Offline
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Yes. I actually had problems early on with nVidia's 3d drivers and have not installed them since. Same for the GEForce Experience program. I'm happy to check for updates myself and don't want/need that app on my system.

I've also tried disabling the various Intel and nVidia graphics services that run on startup, but none of them have made any difference on the delay issue.

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DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

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1Nina
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline
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optodata;

The way you have been, and are, working with this to get to the bottom of it
is admirable. On your directons I got rid of “the yellow line” - but as we now know, that
was half of the problem, though a very annoying one.
And as you know, you can’t disable the GTX 7xx and use inbuilt on my laptop -
and you shouldn't have to, really.

The 700 - cards are here to stay, and probably moving further, as will OS development no doubt.
Up here, you have to search long and hard to find any Win7 to purchase.
After 5-6 years it’s hard to find parts for one’s “old” computer or any part for possible upgrading, unless perhaps on Ebay.
So; for a lightweight techie like me, it’s been puzzeling why other programs work as expected on this laptop,
but not PD. And that’s why I will have to agree with your findings;

that's why I think it's a GTX 7xx chipset/driver+PD issue


Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5450 Offline
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1Nina - I think you understand my point. Ideally, nobody would have to go through this amount of troubleshooting to uncover a problem with current (not brand new) technology, and certainly you wouldn't want to go backwards to make things work. Windows 8.1 and GTX 7xx cards are here now and will be here for a long time and PD needs to be able to work properly with both.

I hope that the work we do on the forum not only helps out other members, but also gives the people at Cyberlink an awareness of what us end-users are going through AND the lengths we'll go to to find an answer

Dafydd, can you please forward this thread to your contacts to see if they can duplicate what's happening in their test lab?

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RobAC [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Joined: Mar 09, 2013 18:20 Messages: 406 Offline
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[edit delete] ignore- for some reason my response posted twice see below.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 20. 2014 17:28

PD 14 Ultimate Suite / Win10 Pro x64
1. Gigabyte Brix PRO / i7-4770R Intel Iris Pro 5200 / 16 GB / 1 TB SSD
2. Lenovo X230T / 8GB / Intel HD4000 + ViDock 4 Plus & ASUS Nvidia 660 Ti / Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIZw3GPwKMo&feature=youtu.be
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RobAC [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Joined: Mar 09, 2013 18:20 Messages: 406 Offline
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Well this is somewhat bitter sweet news.

On the one hand I am glad my initial instinct was correct, on the other hand I am disappointed that it was also correct.
(We could have pointed to the cause of the problem much earlier in Nina's past threads when I made this exact same trouble shooting request but she has a laptop- and could not disable the 7xx card for further testing.)

Another thing I find troubling is the newer Nvidia 800xx Series graphics cards are just being released and who knows if early adopters will run into this exact same issue.

So anyone who has this issue I suggest you Contact Tech support and link back to this thread for their reference.

Optdata- if you could update the title of this thread to say something along the lines of: Nvidia 700 Series Video Card issue with PD or something along those thoughts; so others who have this issue can find it during a search mthat would be cool.

On the upside- you'll find using the Intel HD4600 isn't so bad. My older HD4000 in my laptop was pretty peppy for a laptop.
Keep us informed on what the Tech support have to say. Very interested in what is going on.

Rob

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 20. 2014 17:28

PD 14 Ultimate Suite / Win10 Pro x64
1. Gigabyte Brix PRO / i7-4770R Intel Iris Pro 5200 / 16 GB / 1 TB SSD
2. Lenovo X230T / 8GB / Intel HD4000 + ViDock 4 Plus & ASUS Nvidia 660 Ti / Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIZw3GPwKMo&feature=youtu.be
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babindia
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: India Joined: Aug 16, 2007 06:11 Messages: 884 Offline
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I infer from all the posts that problem is NOT NVidia cards alone. It is vicious cocktail of Haswell+700 series cards + windows 8.1+PD 12.

We have to isolate
1. People with the above pc config. and having problem
2. People with above config and do not have the problem
3. People who have Haswell+nVidia 700 series cards+ Windows 8+PD-12 and having the problem
4. People with above config and do not have the problem

If more people meet condition 1 & 3 then it is PD-12
PC specs :
OS Windows 10.0 Pro
MB - AS rock Z77 extreme 11
Intel 3770K @ 4.0 Ghz OC
Gskill 32 GB RAM 1800 Mhz
6 TB HDD, SSD bootable
nVidia ASUS GTX 660 Ti
BenQ 22" LCD monitor 1920x1080

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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5450 Offline
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Quote: I infer from all the posts that problem is NOT NVidia cards alone. It is vicious cocktail of Haswell+700 series cards + windows 8.1+PD 12.

We have to isolate
1. People with the above pc config. and having problem
2. People with above config and do not have the problem
3. People who have Haswell+nVidia 700 series cards+ Windows 8+PD-12 and having the problem
4. People with above config and do not have the problem

If more people meet condition 1 & 3 then it is PD-12

I agree with you on the need for more samples, but so far we DO know it is the GTX 7xx cards on Win8.1 The CPUs in the affected systems have mostly been Haswells - but not all. The only pc out of 3 that Tony/ynotfish has that is affected is an Ivy Bridge i7 3537, but he's running a GTX 740 and Win8.1.

Other people with Haswell chips have no problems on Win8.1. If they run AMD or Intel graphics chips or nVidia GTX 6xx or earlier chips (like Tony's 1st PC), they're not affected.

So far, #3 is closest to being valid, but I don't think having a Haswell CPU is important. It would be great if anyone else could chime in with their system specs and whether they are affected or not so we can be certain that we understand the "vicious cocktail."

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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Ok,
I'll jump in here with some info, not a lot.
1. Optodata, this thread and Nina's threads and a few related threads have already been sent to CyberLink with a "covernote" a comment from me.
2. The issue isn't confined, from my experience, just to Nvidia GTX 7** GPU's and is affecting quite a diverse group of PC's.
Dafydd
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5450 Offline
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Thanks for your input, Dafydd. Any word on why Cyberlink pulled the 2706 patch from their download page yesterday?

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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Just an update: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/38033.page#196650

Dafydd
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5450 Offline
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This issue has finally been addressed in the latest Beta patch 2908

The delay is still present when using a GTX7xx card, but it has been reduced by 2x - 3x over previous versions. I'm not quite able to mark this issue as solved because the HD4600 is still a second or 2 faster at bringing up the menus, but a dealing with a 5 second delay in a typical project is tolerable. Waiting 15-17 seconds is not

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DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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James1
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
I am running i7-2600@2.4Gh (ivy bridge) with 12GB memory on Asus p67Le motherboard with Geforce 560T 1Gb GPU and the latest 2908 (beta) and latest Nvidia driver on a windows 7 premium and have no delays it is almost instant.
don't know if that helps....
Jim
p.s.I will attch my Dxdiag if requested.
 Filename
James1-DxDiag.txt
[Disk]
 Description
Jame1 Dxdiag file
 Filesize
39 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
254 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 16. 2014 12:14

Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5450 Offline
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Hi James1

Thanks for the feedback! The delay issue seems to be confined to Win8/8.1 + Haswell i7 + GTX 7xx cards.

Since your system is free of all the affected components, you wouldn't have been bothered by the delay. Even if you "upgraded" two susceptible components on your system, such as installing Win8.1 and swapping in a GTX Titan, you wouldn't have the problem because Ivy Bridge CPUs aren't affected.

This is definitely a case against paying for "bleeding edge" components. Often there are compelling reasons to get the latest and greatest hardware and apps; but with PD12, there is far more stability and performance using the previous generation hardware and OS.

It's actually great that PD12 doesn't need a top-end system to run well on, but something's clearly wrong when its performance goes down when using faster hardware. Had I known that I could have saved myself $3000 and countless headaches

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GGRussell [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline
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Quote: Had I known that I could have saved myself $3000 and countless headaches
Ditto... I wonder if this also affects the new i7 4790 and Z97 chipset? I also had many issues with Intel USB 3 drivers but that's off topic. Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5450 Offline
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Quote:
Quote: Had I known that I could have saved myself $3000 and countless headaches
Ditto... I wonder if this also affects the new i7 4790 and Z97 chipset? I also had many issues with Intel USB 3 drivers but that's off topic.

Wow, the 4770 and Z87 nearly out of date already!

I'm afraid I don't know how this will all play out on even newer hardware, but I do know that I'm not looking to be a guinea pig again quite so soon

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DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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1Nina
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline
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Installed betapatch 2908, but I cannot say there is much difference in the delays and stutter.
I try out Modify-window, because it is essential to my editing. Just about everything I edit will be
handled inside Modify.

- Scrubber has difficulties following the cursor
- Several seconds with black interface before content show up
- Scrubber does not hit the last keyframe
- Several seconds before scrubber moves back to start, and does not hit the first keyframe
- Content is lagging behind
- Delay and black window when “save”
- Not so many “jumps” when content move, but still not smooth

Made yet another screen capture just to verify.
All in real time, hence the 6 min.
Should be ok to watch full screen.

http://youtu.be/tDyFUy56Db8

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 16. 2014 16:44


Just something.
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