Well, one problem is that although mpeg-2 can have very high bitrates (greater than 30mbps - HD territory), not all players will support this maximum. I'm pretty sure that the DVD standard allows for a maximum of about 8mbps, but that's rarely used (most top quality DVDs are around 6mbps) and this is for standard definition resolutions and framerates (720x480@29.97fps or 720x576@25fps if I remember correctly).

For playback on a Blu-ray player, mpeg-2 is not the most efficient codec to use, nor is it the most supported for HD playback (it has been superceded by mp4/h.264). You should be fine using h.264 at around 25mbps and 1920x1080@30p, but it's always a good idea to test your prototype disks on an actual Blu-ray player (more than one, if possible - cheapo and higher quality players) just to make sure.

Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive

FYI - you may want to have a scan of this thread http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/30557.page

It discusses the differences between:
- File Structures / Formats (eg those used by BD and AVCHD)
- File / Containers (eg M2TS, M2T, MPG)
- Video Codecs (eg AVC, MPEG2)

For what it is worth I've happily burnt BD structures to DVD Media and it plays back just fine on the Majority of HW and SW players though as some will refuse to play them it is worth testing a sample. The easiest way to do this is to just burn your BD project to your HDD then use IMGBURN to burn the structure to your blank DVD.

If you are shooting in AVC/H.264 (which you will be), there is no good reason for you to then produce output in BD using MPEG2 for the video compression. The AVC/H.264 Video codec is the same used for both BD and AVCHD production. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

"The easiest way to do this is to just burn your BD project to your HDD then use IMGBURN to burn the structure to your blank DVD"

I did just this, and my Blu-ray player would not play it correctly (It would start to play the 'first play' video for a few seconds - the one played before the menu shows -and then lock up the machine). It may be because I have a cheap Blu-ray player but who knows?

I have found that if I just produce a 1920 x 1080 mp4 file and put it on a disk (any disk) I can play it and it looks beautiful. The main downside to this is that there is no menu or chapter selection possible. Oh well.

But you know, Blu-ray burners and media have come way down in price in the past year, so I think I'll just splurge and get one.

Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive

What I did was take a test disk to a retailer and see what ones worked. Oddly it is usually the cheap Chinese ones that work as they are less picky about strictly complying to a format. As you have pointed out the cost of BD-R 25GB have come down so much over the years that it is not really the worth the effort as it once was PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Yeah, I had a cheap DVD player years ago that apparently didn't even read the region code on the disk and would play any DVD I popped in it, including ones whose resolution was outside of the capabilities of my TV (I'm NTSC, which has fewer lines, so PAL DVDs would just be cropped at the bottom - It didn't scale unfortunately - and the video would play slightly faster!).

But yeah, you can find good BD-R disks (such as Verbatim) for around $1 each if you look hard enough or buy them in large enough quantities - say, spindles of 50 or more. And decent burners, which were over $200 just a few years ago, are now well under $100.

Speaking of which, I currently have a DVD burner that can burn m-disks and I've burned some of my most crucial files onto it, like family pictures, etc. The Blu-ray version of the m-disk was supposed to be released last August but got delayed to Q1/2014. These disks do not require a special burner, but should work with most modern Blu-ray burners.

What is m-Disk, one might ask? These are disks that are designed to last at least 1000 years. Yes, 1000 years. And they can withstand completely unreasonable torture (I saw a video showing the tester submerging an m-Disk alternately into boiling water and liquid nitrogen and the disk still worked!). The average burnable disk that uses dye will last, if you're lucky, about 7 years. Possibly more if they are extremely good quality and you keep them out of the sun, away from temperature extremes and in a cool, dry and dark place. Even then, don't expect 100% of your data to be there after 7 years or so. M-disk is currently the ONLY semi-permanent solution, unless you want to pay big $$$ to have your disks stamped like a store-bought movie!

Anyway, when those 25GB m-Disks become available (they only come in single layer because they actually etch the information into a non-transparent stone-like layer) I will splurge and get the Blu-ray burner.

Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive

Thanks for the info - I'd be interested in BD m-Disk but it seems to be slipping back and back in it's release. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Has it been pushed back again? Darn. Still, the currently available 4.7GB (single layer DVD) is quite a godsend if you have data that you want to be able to store reliably for a very long time (about 40 human generations!). Of course, whether or not DVD drives will even be available at that time to READ those disks is another matter...

Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive

I finally figured out a way to author avchd video to a blu ray disc without transcoding. I have an old version of Pinnacle studio 14 on my computer. I don't normally use it anymore because I edit with PD11. But I discovered it has a setting for authoring blu ray discs using AVCHD file types. Setting one is Blu ray mpeg2 and setting two is blu ray AVC. I used the AVC setting and burned a very clear blu ray disc that was about 80minutes long. Conversion to a different format was not necessary.
So the bottom line is to author with a different program if you want to burn a blu ray from AVCHD video.

thanks for all the contributions Windows 10 professional
HP Omen Obelisk DT 875-1131
Intel Core i7(3.6GHz)
Eight Core
Memory 32 GB
GPU Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Super
Power supply 750 Watt


Using PD 11 ultimate build 11.0.03026

Heavytiger

Did you say author AVCHD to a *Blu-ray* disk? Or do you mean to a DVD, since that's really what AVCHD disks are for?

Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive

I authored to a RD-RE 25GB blu ray disc. I also successfully authored to a RW DVD.

Heavytiger

Windows 10 professional
HP Omen Obelisk DT 875-1131
Intel Core i7(3.6GHz)
Eight Core
Memory 32 GB
GPU Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Super
Power supply 750 Watt


Using PD 11 ultimate build 11.0.03026

Heavytiger

What's odd is that AVCHD is one of the choices for disk creation types within PD12 - although only 4.7GB - but it doesn't work on my Blu-ray player. To be honest, it MAY be that my Blu-ray player just doesn't support AVCHD disks, but I'm 99% sure I've burned Blu-ray structures onto 4.7GB DVD-Rs and it worked (using another NLE program) on that same Blu-ray player. This makes me think that PD is doing something wrong or non-standard, but who knows?

Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive

Quote: I authored to a RD-RE 25GB blu ray disc. I also successfully authored to a RW DVD.

Not sure how you 'authored' AVCHD to a Bluray disc since PD12 doesn't offer that as a choice. Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA

From Heavytiger's post: "I finally figured out a way to author avchd video to a blu ray disc without transcoding. I have an old version of Pinnacle studio 14 on my computer. I don't normally use it anymore because I edit with PD11. But I discovered it has a setting for authoring blu ray discs using AVCHD file types. Setting one is Blu ray mpeg2 and setting two is blu ray AVC. I used the AVC setting and burned a very clear blu ray disc that was about 80minutes long. Conversion to a different format was not necessary. "

He did it from another program.

Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive

Hi,
Blu-Ray disk are minimum 25 in storage size. I believe your problem is the choice of formats to use. If burning blue ray disks to be played as blu-ray then they must be written in that format which is different than a 4.7Gb disk. When burning AVHCD or H .264 which blu-ray does support you have to use blu-ray disks. Your BD player will read standard DVD and it is is reocgnizing the DVD inserted as a standard DVD then it maybe not recognizing the movie as blu ray or DVD standard ( as that is a different file dtructure.
Jim
Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

Visit GranPapa64's channel for your YouTube experience of the day!

Russell1967,

All you need to do is read your Manual on your BluRay player and see the "Playable disks". If AVCHD is not listed, your player will not play AVCHD disks.

If you have lost you manual, look up your players Model number on the internet. Just search for the 'Brand and Model Manual'.

I think you will find your player is one that does not play AVCHD disks.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

It does sound like your blu-ray player doesn't support AVCHD DVD discs and while you have had success applying a blu-ray file structure to a DVD disc via 3rd party software I'd still advise you to look at buying a blu-ray burner.

Blu-ray discs can be encoded with h.264 up to 24mbps while AVCHD DVDs can only be encoded with h.264 up to 17mbps. Additionally, blu-ray discs can be encoded in MPEG-2 as you've previously discussed although there's little point if your camera shoots in h.264.

I was interested to read about how discs can degrade after 7 years. I've got discs I burnt 10 years ago on Phillips DVD media and they still play fine. I'm a Verbatim user now. My Mac and PC have no issues with them and I just picked up 25 Verbatim BD-R for £20 so they're less than £1 each.

Cheers,

Andrew Alienware Aurora ALX R4 - Intel i7-4820 4.2 GHz - 32GB DDR3 RAM - Crucial 512GB SSD - 1TB Seagate HDD - 3TB WD Green HDD - 4TB WD Green HDD - MSI NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB

Sony HDR-PJ810 and HDR-PJ530

Yeah, I definitely plan on purchasing a Blu-ray burner in the near future - although the ability to utilize the more advanced codec but with smaller (and cheaper) storage media is a nice plus. Unfortunately, I found my manual and it does not mention AVCHD disks being supported - officially - although, as mentioned, I have made a Blu-ray structured DVD with a third party software that played fine (Acted and looked exactly like a Blu-ray, but with less space available, which is perfectly fine for smaller projects).

About the m-disk and the longevity of recording media: Under test conditions, according to m-disc ( http://www.mdisc.com/what-is-mdisc/ ), the average life expectancy of storage media is:
Hard drives: Up to 5 years
DVD+-R/RW: Up to 7 years
USB Flashdrive: Up to 8 years
m-disc: Up to 1000 years

Under extremely favorable conditions, your storage media may last longer (high quality manufacture, ideal environmental conditions, low usage, etc). But even under these conditions, hard drives will lose their magnetic integrity, DVD's (and Blu-Ray/HD recordables) dye layer will break down and flash memory will start to break down as well. It's just a matter of time.

m-disc actually records its data by 'engraving' (using a high powered laser) a rock-like layer below the protective upper surface. Under tortuous conditions that would immediately destroy all of the other media solutions - high magnetic fields, continuous temperatures of 176F (80C) degrees with 85% humidity for days, etc - the m-disc will survive and protect its data.

Currently only single layer formats are available because the rock-like layer does not lend itself varying wavelength lasers able to access data in a lower section. Still, this is 4.7GB or 25GB of essentially permanent data that can be READ with normal players and drives (the Blu-ray m-disc, when it becomes available, can be WRITTEN by regular Blu-ray burners while the DVD m-disc requires a compatible DVD burner).

Hope this helps!
Russell1967 System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive

It is a worry how my data storage will last in the future. I back up my projects' blu-ray folders on two separate hard drives as well as burning the actual disc. Most of it is footage of my kids and I won't take any chances.

Cheers,

Andrew Alienware Aurora ALX R4 - Intel i7-4820 4.2 GHz - 32GB DDR3 RAM - Crucial 512GB SSD - 1TB Seagate HDD - 3TB WD Green HDD - 4TB WD Green HDD - MSI NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB

Sony HDR-PJ810 and HDR-PJ530

An option that I use, in addition to what you do (saving to multiple locations) is saving to an external USB drive that is not always connected. I have a 1TB USB 3.0 drive that I use for backups that is only ever connected for that purpose and is kept in a cool dry place when not in use. But even this is not foolproof. If you think about it, a 1TB drive has over 8 TRILLION individual magnetic 'spots' on its surface(s), so it is amazing that it can hold that at greater than 99.5% accuracy for years of use at a time.

I wonder if my old Commodore 64 floppy disks in the closet still work?...

Russell1967

System specs: Windows 7 Professional x64; Gigabyte Z77-DS3H motherboard with i5-3579K 3.8Ghz processor with 32GB RAM; Zotac GTX 760 w/4GB; 1xWestern Digital 1TB 10,000RPM HD; 1x Samsung 840 Pro SSD System Drive

Quote: I wonder if my old Commodore 64 floppy disks in the closet still work?...

It is a good chance some will still work and some will have too many errors, if you can find a machine to read them.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

My BBC Model B disks do! The newest one is 20 years old! The BBC computer, the monitor and the disk drive still work too. Happy memories!

Andrew Alienware Aurora ALX R4 - Intel i7-4820 4.2 GHz - 32GB DDR3 RAM - Crucial 512GB SSD - 1TB Seagate HDD - 3TB WD Green HDD - 4TB WD Green HDD - MSI NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB

Sony HDR-PJ810 and HDR-PJ530