It looks like you have the right color space now.
There are color calibration tools to get everything adjusted to the same colors.

However it is not worth the trouble sometimes.

The Important things are to have your monitor adjusted to produce normal colors. Sometimes you can simply reset the monitor to factory defaults.

Secondly you want your printer to print what you see on the monitor.
My printer prints darker than the monitor, so if use the light profile in the printer driver.
Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Okay, a new development. This doesn't help me for what I want, but it might help to figure out what the problem is. If I export the video as a standard definition MP4 (720x576 (DVD PAL)) then the colours in the playback are accurate. It's only when exporting as an HD file that the colours are washed out.



If you know what that means it could go a ways to solving this.

Hello. Just stumbled upon this forum post. I'm having the same problems with PowerDirector 11. Attached is a screenshot of what I have. It's a bit harder to see side by side, but the one to the right is significantly darker and washed out.

Okay, I think I figured out why I'm having the issue, at least. I have an NVidia card, and it defaults to displaying video at a color range that makes the black levels muddier. I switched it in the NVidia control panel (Video > Adjust Video Color Settings) and selected to make color adjustments "With the NVidia Settings", then selected a dynamic range of 0-255.

Don't know if we're having the same problem, but if it is, I hope this helps

- Thomas

Hi Thomas,
Well glad to hear you are narrowing it down. When you are in Windows 7 there is a application for monitor calibrating also ( do a search in windows I g=forgot exactly where it is), within that it lead you through adjust various settings of your monitor, then at the end is a clear type adjustment. Try peaking the color display with that. I generally run that after installation of new drivers, that may further clcarify your images.
JIm Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

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Quote: Okay, I think I figured out why I'm having the issue, at least. I have an NVidia card, and it defaults to displaying video at a color range that makes the black levels muddier. I switched it in the NVidia control panel (Video > Adjust Video Color Settings) and selected to make color adjustments "With the NVidia Settings", then selected a dynamic range of 0-255.

I installed the Catalyst Control Centre for my AMD card and activated dynamic range 0-255, but sadly it didn't make any difference. That seems to have been the default setting because setting it to Limited 16-235 makes the problem even worse and black becomes grey.


I thought perhaps it could be a problem with my video players and my local display settings. However, I've tried uploading the exported video to YouTube and the playback there looks the same as when I play it through Media Player Classic. Although, strangely, the thumbnail appears to have the correct colours.

What I know so far:

1. Video exported from PD in HD comes out with desaturated colours
2. Video exported in SD has the correct colours
3. The desaturated video appears desaturated in the media library, but with the correct colours when added to the timeline (If exported again, the video is still desaturated, although no moreso than before)
4. The video seems to be desaturated regardless of the method used to view it

This is really starting to bother me, because I just want to start producing videos.

This is really starting to bother me, because I just want to start producing videos.

Two points that may be worth considering (those who know me will not be surprised!! ) :

Unless you can control all aspects of the "production" process - from shooting/capture through to viewing and display - there will always be subjective (and actual) variations in colour, brightness etc. Simply put, at the viewing end of the process, not all display kit is the same - plasma, LCD, LED TVs differ, vimeo and Youtube players differ, PC/Laptop monitors differ therefore even if the exported production is "standard" it may not be seen as so by the audience.

Using strong, graphic type images will highlight or exacerbate the issue, which perhaps may be far less noticeable "in real life" content that has more subtle, and probably constantly changing, blends of colours.

Both these points may allow the pragmatic approach of subjective viewing to be acceptable, rather than a theoretical optimum.

Perhaps I might illustrate the point a bit more by reference to my main interest - underwater video. Not only does the colour balance change (due to the water absorbing the light spectra differently) with every difference of depth, necessitating in-camera white balance adjustment with every metre or so change, there is no standard reference point anyway (unless you employ quite a lot of kit) as my brain interprets what I see and does it's own adjustments on the fly (assuming it's not having a bad day). Thus (a bit simplistically), as the red light is absorbed, things I know are red may be seen as more red, but other things may be seen as less red.

So when I edit my video, what colour adjustments do I make??

I make them to look acceptable/lifelike/as I remember them/as I want them to look given the likely display system - my mother's LED TV, my LCD TV, my laptop display, old Aunt Bessie's analogue TV etc.

In short, I shoot and adjust my video to the best of my ability/perception as I cannot use/see a true reference/comparison point nor do I control the viewing platform.

The most comprehensive approach to colour space issues I have come across, is this one referenced above :
http://frapsforum.com/threads/encoding-fraps-video...es-wrong-color-faded-etc.1537/

at the end of the thread there is a link to a simplified version. It really does show the difficulty inherent in video encoding/playback and, whilst PD is a solid and good NLE, it is only a consumer level product and might well have some inbuilt constraints that are not controllable by the user.

If you intend to shoot real life video you may be able to minimise the problem OK, if you use a lot of strong, primary colour graphics then maybe you will have to adopt another approach or different software (as many of us do for differing tasks)

Cheers
Adrian

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

I've stopped using my title because it makes it difficult to test the difference, and started using basic colour boards as it makes the difference more obvious.



Left: Original
Right: Output from PD


I want to check if it's something to do with my display settings, so could somebody take a screenshot of this and post it for me so I can see how it displays on other people's machines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFEiW2SNqUU

Here is my screen capture Lg 24" monitor of the video you attached.

This was from screen capture then pasted into my Paint program and saved.
Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

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Quote: Here is my screen capture Lg 24" monitor of the video you attached.
This was from screen capture then pasted into my Paint program and saved.

So it doesn't seem to be my display settings then, the colour actually is encoded into the video. This is just bizarre. The colour is correct when imported back into the PowerDirector timeline, and the YouTube video thumbnail is also the right colour. The correct colour exists in the file, it's just not displaying when played.

I thought if it was just my machine displaying it that way and it was fine for everyone else then it didn't matter; but it seems to affect the final product.

Each Display device will show slightly different color.

I used a software called Pixie that reports the RGB values under the mouse cursor.

Of your two images side by side, there is very slight difference.
RGB 230,34,38 the left side.
RGB 244,54,35 the right side.
Difference RGB 14,20,3

The Youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFEiW2SNqUU
RGB 244,52,32 very close to the right side of your double image.

James1 PNG file:
RGB 245,52,32

Except for your Left side image all to the videos and images have the same color values. Plus or minus 2.
If I did not see the two colors in a side by side comparison, I would never notice.

All Measurements done on my computer's monitor.
Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Hi MisterCerberus -

This really is a can of worms! Even the most "forensic" investigation doesn't lead to a conclusion. There are so many variables... what your display is doing, what PD is doing, how YouTube processes.

The links Adrian posted showed a variety of causes for what we're seeing.

I'm not sure which colour board you used in the first instance. In PD, there are two "reds": 247,32,48 & 255,17,4 - the red one's the one I think you used.

When I produce the 247,32,48 colour board to 1280x720 MPEG-4, it comes out as 255, 53, 45 (even though it's "correct" in the timeline.



On YouTube, your red colour board is 228, 33, 37

This is doing my head in - & it must be doing the same to yours!

Cheers - Tony


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Quote: I'm not sure which colour board you used in the first instance. In PD, there are two "reds": 247,32,48 & 255,17,4 - the red one's the one I think you used.

I created a custom one based on the main red used in my title graphic, which is 230, 34, 38. The image I posted was the colour of the colour board going in on the left, with the colour of the exported video on the right.

Okay, I've tried exporting solid block colours and I've come a little closer to finding what the problem is

Pure Red: 255, 0, 0 --- Output: 255, 26, 0

Pure Blue: 0, 0, 255 --- Output: 0, 16, 255

Pure Green: 0, 255, 0 --- Output: 0, 216, 0

The greens are what's changing.

OK -

What you found with HD & SD production is consistent with what I'm seeing here.

Your 230, 34, 38 colour board comes out at 247, 53, 36 produced to 720p or 1080p. At 480p it displays as 230, 34, 39 (much closer).

Variables! Variables! Variables!

Cheers - Tony
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Since solid colours have shown an alteration in the green channel, I was wondering if this would also happen if I exported greys. It turns out, no.
I tried three greys: quarter-shade, half-shade, and three-quarter shade (63, 63, 63; 127, 127, 127; & 191, 191, 191), all of which exported nigh-perfectly with only a maximum 1 point of difference in any channel.

I thought perhaps the quarter-shade would show an increase in the green channel and the three-quarter-shade would show a decrease, as though PowerDirector is normalising the greens in export as it appears with the solid colours. But no.

There's that hypothesis down.

There are so many variables... what your display is doing, what PD is doing, how YouTube processes

YouTube is kind of a null point now. I uploaded the video to see if it was perhaps my video players having the problem and played via YouTube it would look fine. I also wanted to see if if was my computer's display setting which were causing the problem so wanted somebody else to look at the video.
As uploading the video to YouTube causes no noticable change to the video, it is pretty moot as a factor.

Okay, so get this, this is a weird one.

So if I export a colour board as an HD video file, the colours are different in the exported video, right?

Well, if I import that HD video back into PowerDirector, and then export that as an SD video file, the colours return to almost what they originally were.



This is proof that the HD file contains the information for the original colours, otherwise it wouldn't be able to recreate them after a degree of seperation from the original file. If anything they would become more different, not return to what they were. The question is: Why doesn't the HD video display those colours when it is played?


For me this is very good news. Presuming this is consistent, it means I can safely export the components of my videos and the colours will be preserved when I put the components together into the final product, provided the final export is in SD. I'd still like to find a solution to the problem for making HD video, but for now at least I can make full SD videos without worrying about quality loss from exporting SD files multiple times.

Quote:

Have you tried a pure colorboard that is a 1920x1080 PNG image?

I made this one to the same color you show as your original image.
I do not know if it will make any difference. the Color boards in powerdirectctor, I do not think are Full HD size although they will fill the screen.

This one is 1920x1080.

See attached:

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Quote:

Quote:

Have you tried a pure colorboard that is a 1920x1080 PNG image?

I made this one to the same color you show as your original image.
I do not know if it will make any difference. the Color boards in powerdirectctor, I do not think are Full HD size although they will fill the screen.

This one is 1920x1080.

It didn't seem to make any difference. I exported it as a 1920x1080 MP4, and the result was 247, 55, 28. Roughly the same as using the regular colour boards.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Have you tried a pure colorboard that is a 1920x1080 PNG image?

I made this one to the same color you show as your original image.
I do not know if it will make any difference. the Color boards in powerdirectctor, I do not think are Full HD size although they will fill the screen.

This one is 1920x1080.

It didn't seem to make any difference. I exported it as a 1920x1080 MP4, and the result was 247, 55, 28. Roughly the same as using the regular colour boards.

What happens if you produce as AVC H.264? (*.m2ts)

Try MPEG-2 1920x1080 at 25 Mbps also.

Have you tried any of the MKV formats?

I am just curious if producing with the different profiles makes any difference on your system.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Whilst I am still not sure where this is going, I have done some follow up experiments.

It seems quite clear, from reading around the subject that it is not uncommon for video encoding to lead to colour changes. The ability of the user of any encoder to influence this process may also be limited or non-existent.

To illustrate the variables :-

Use a red colour board 247,32,48 in track 1, above a green colour board 60,125,52 in track 2.
Confirm the RGB values using colorpic or similar - on my timeline they are exactly the same.

Analyse the RGB values in the preview window with the same tool.

Using VMR7
red 255,75,68
green 78,137,68

Using VMR9
red 247,31,48
green 60,126,52

Immediately (on my system but maybe not on others??) it is both visually obvious, and analytically obvious, that using VMR7 as the preview renderer gives significantly different colour to the timeline, whereas using VMR9 as the preview renderer giving virtually the same RGB values as the originals.

Therefore, from a visual perspective, the choice of renderer may be crucial to the displayed preview colour of the edited video content - easy to spot with block colours, but not so easy with normal content.

Which colour does PD export? One would expect the timeline RGB values, irrespective of the preview values. But, and here is the key issue, once exported how can we tell?

Presumably, unless we can analyse the file metadata, we have to play the produced video.

I exported the two colour board timeline in two resolutions for both .mp4 and .m2ts formats. If the produced file is played in different media players, there is a marked visual and analytical difference in RGB values, depending on the player.

The attached file "mp4 comparison" visually illustrates the difference, with the produced video @640 on the left and @1080 on the right.

The players are, from left to right, MPCHC, VLC, WMP and QT.

The screen shot should not be used for analysis as it is different to the original display but VLC is the only player that is virtually correct to the original timeline RGB values.

Similarly the file "m2ts comparison" produced @720x480 and @1080 also shows marked differences. The format and layouts are the same but this time QT is not available to be used. Again VLC is the closest player to the original.

Perhaps other players will display different results again?

So do we have a reliable and consistent methodology that allows us to analyse the colour encoding performance of PD - perhaps yes if we keep all the variables consistent on our own systems, probably no for any other system with differing variables.

If we cannot control the viewing platform, it seems unlikely that we can rely on the colour presentation being as we produce it on our own system, irrespective of PDs performance or file format or preview renderer or raw content or video card etc etc.

I suspect the best we can do is make the best shot at it for our particular purposes, however that is achieved??

Cheers
Adrian









Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.