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Still photos changing proportion with PIP-NEW: added screen captures and "recipe"
rbowser [Avatar]
Contributor Joined: Aug 08, 2011 16:48 Messages: 515 Offline
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In a finished project, the photographs I used Magic Motion on look OK - they desperately need de-interlacing, but PD doesn't have that available on a per-object basis for some odd reason, and I don't want to mess with the rest of the video and images which look fine. (subject of an earlier thread)

But the photos which I animated in the PIP editor, without using Magic Motion, are all over-sized, out of proportion, and fuzzy in the finished video.

The proportions are off, I had "maintain aspect ratio on."

For instance, one photo is simply rotating 180 degrees all through its 3 seconds on screen. You can see the proportions are wrong, and morph a bit while the image turns. It's larger than what I had set in the preview window, and the focus is off.

Ideas on that one?

rbowser

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 23. 2011 12:21

Rocket-Scientist
Senior Member Location: HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA Joined: Apr 23, 2010 10:14 Messages: 288 Offline
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I have had best luck with magic motion by producing to highest progressive 1920x1080p to a file, then bring it back into the timeline. RTX 2060 SUPER 8GB GDDR6
(2 NVME 2TB, 1 SSD 2TB, 3SATA 18TB )
PD18 ULTIMATE 64bit
WINDOWS 10 PRO 64 BIT
GIGABYTE X570 AORUS PRO WIFI MB
RYZEN 7 3700X 8-CORE , 64 GB DDR4
ORSAIR HX1050 watts PSU
rbowser [Avatar]
Contributor Joined: Aug 08, 2011 16:48 Messages: 515 Offline
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Quote: I have had best luck with magic motion by producing to highest progressive 1920x1080p to a file, then bring it back into the timeline.


Thanks for the reply, RS

How do you produce a single element like a photo and then bring it back in--? Do you mean set up a project with only the photo in it?

rbowser
Rocket-Scientist
Senior Member Location: HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA Joined: Apr 23, 2010 10:14 Messages: 288 Offline
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put photo on timeline, apply magic motion path and timing you want, then produce that time segment.

on your de-interlacing problems earlier. If you place one of the video segments you want to mix with pictures on the timeline, select it and go to last icon above (more features) -> set TV format -> show format info and see what the interlace of the video is set at, then make sure your default tv format is set the same. I believe the images just inherit what the nearest video clip uses. There may be difference between source input settings and "produce" output settings. RTX 2060 SUPER 8GB GDDR6
(2 NVME 2TB, 1 SSD 2TB, 3SATA 18TB )
PD18 ULTIMATE 64bit
WINDOWS 10 PRO 64 BIT
GIGABYTE X570 AORUS PRO WIFI MB
RYZEN 7 3700X 8-CORE , 64 GB DDR4
ORSAIR HX1050 watts PSU
rbowser [Avatar]
Contributor Joined: Aug 08, 2011 16:48 Messages: 515 Offline
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Quote: put photo on timeline, apply magic motion path and timing you want, then produce that time segment.

on your de-interlacing problems earlier. If you place one of the video segments you want to mix with pictures on the timeline, select it and go to last icon above (more features) -> set TV format -> show format info and see what the interlace of the video is set at, then make sure your default tv format is set the same. I believe the images just inherit what the nearest video clip uses. There may be difference between source input settings and "produce" output settings.

RS, you and so many folks here are so patient and helpful - Thank you much!

Now get this - I've been under the misapprehension that we couldn't produce small sections of our projects!-- I guess I thought that because of how we can't select just a portion to be burned to a DVD folder-- Dang!-- Well that answers several questions. When people were talking about producing and importing - I wasn't getting how they were doing that.

I will certainly try everything you suggest on the photos - The flickering problem was/is the worst, this out of proportion thing is weird, but hopefully that'll be fixed when I produce those segments. I can set interlace settings just for the photos, and then change it again for the full project---I think?

I think you mean I set the triangle markers to mark a segment, and then produce it. - I'll try as soon as I can. Thanks!

rbowser
Rocket-Scientist
Senior Member Location: HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA Joined: Apr 23, 2010 10:14 Messages: 288 Offline
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Surest way is to start a new project, insert image, apply magic motion, produce, restore main project, insert.

Next best way use triangles to define time region you want, trim to just that. produce to file, then UNDO the trim.

Least preferred is select with triangles only without the trim (sometime PD9 produces whole file, even with time span selected.) RTX 2060 SUPER 8GB GDDR6
(2 NVME 2TB, 1 SSD 2TB, 3SATA 18TB )
PD18 ULTIMATE 64bit
WINDOWS 10 PRO 64 BIT
GIGABYTE X570 AORUS PRO WIFI MB
RYZEN 7 3700X 8-CORE , 64 GB DDR4
ORSAIR HX1050 watts PSU
rbowser [Avatar]
Contributor Joined: Aug 08, 2011 16:48 Messages: 515 Offline
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Quote: Surest way is to start a new project, insert image, apply magic motion, produce, restore main project, insert.

Next best way use triangles to define time region you want, trim to just that. produce to file, then UNDO the trim.

Least preferred is select with triangles only without the trim (sometime PD9 produces whole file, even with time span selected.)

Good deal, RS - Thanks for the extra tips. Look forward to having time to try some things out.
RB
ynotfish
Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline
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Hi rbowser -

In this tutorial, you'll see how a single image is produced to video format (so that a video effect can be applied)...

http://www.youtube.com/user/PDtoots#p/u/5/6YcfK2l56P0

You've observed a problem PD (and its users) have had for a good while! When using PiP Motion or Magic Motion - even in Video Cropping (with zoom), there is some distortion. It's particularly noticeable when the motion is slower.

Cranston has investigated this annoying phenomenon, bit I can't find where he posted the video.

Cheers - Tony
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rbowser [Avatar]
Contributor Joined: Aug 08, 2011 16:48 Messages: 515 Offline
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Quote: Hi rbowser -

In this tutorial, you'll see how a single image is produced to video format (so that a video effect can be applied)...

http://www.youtube.com/user/PDtoots#p/u/5/6YcfK2l56P0

You've observed a problem PD (and its users) have had for a good while! When using PiP Motion or Magic Motion - even in Video Cropping (with zoom), there is some distortion. It's particularly noticeable when the motion is slower.

Cranston has investigated this annoying phenomenon, bit I can't find where he posted the video.

Cheers - Tony

More good info--Thanks, Tony!

rbowser
rbowser [Avatar]
Contributor Joined: Aug 08, 2011 16:48 Messages: 515 Offline
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Before this thread, I had no idea that video effects or PIP shouldn't be applied to a photograph. I've never heard of such a thing, and it would never have occurred to me. I wouldn't have spent two weeks struggling with the photos in my vacation video if I would have realized that - I'll go back in and it'll probably take me another week or so to replace all the mangled, flickering photos in that vid.

This should be made Much more clear in the manual, on the site, Somewhere--because there have to be a lot of people coming from other programs, like me, where still images and video clips could have the same FX applied to them - the two media were interchangeable.

The other thing that was somehow escaping me, is that we can produce small portions of our projects if we need to. Knowing that PD9 can't make a DVD out of just a portion of the time line (odd short-coming of the program)--I mistakenly thought this meant we couldn't Produce anything but entire projects also.

I can see that processing photos one-by-one as mini-projects, like in the last You Tube tute posted, is the best way to do it. In the case of my video that has hundreds of photos I'll need to replace, I'll probably at least attempt to Produce those portions with the other tracks deactivated temporarily, then re-import them.

I still haven't had time to try the tips on this thread, but I appreciate everyone taking the time to post them.

rbowser
Cranston
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Aug 17, 2007 02:26 Messages: 1667 Offline
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Quote: Cranston has investigated this annoying phenomenon, but I can't find where he posted the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPzRrArBLZQ

If this is what you are talking about rbowser, it's an ongoing problem since at least version 7.
Four seperate reports with four seperate video examples have been delivered to CL Development via, and at the request of, the moderator, over the years.
Never recieved a single word of reply from CL regarding any one of the reports. And no no fix included in either PD8 or PD9.

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rbowser [Avatar]
Contributor Joined: Aug 08, 2011 16:48 Messages: 515 Offline
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Quote:
Quote: Cranston has investigated this annoying phenomenon, but I can't find where he posted the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPzRrArBLZQ

If this is what you are talking about rbowser, it's an ongoing problem since at least version 7.
Four seperate reports with four seperate video examples have been delivered to CL Development via, and at the request of, the moderator, over the years.
Never recieved a single word of reply from CL regarding any one of the reports. And no no fix included in either PD8 or PD9.


Actually that's a different problem, Cranston - and much more subtle than the issue I started this thread about.

The photos which I added motion to in PIP, not using Magic Motion, are larger in the finished DVD than they are in the PD9 project file, and are distorted. The distortion is what I call "fat head effect," like when a movie is watched with the wrong aspect ratio on an HD TV. That's when the horizontal dimension is stretched out beyond what it should be.

Flickering pictures is the problem I brought up on another thread - that was due to me using Magic Motion directly on the photos, not knowing they had to be rendered as video first. Those pictures aren't enlarged or distorted, but the wrong de-interlacing has been applied to them, so they flicker like crazy on details like repetitive details of architecture.

From now, I'll be rendering my photos to video before doing any kind of motion automation on them, or adding FX. - The simple tip that stills can't be treated like video is something that totally alluded me until this thread. I suppose it's in the manual, but it seems like it could be made much more clear--DON'T DO ANY FX, including motion on your still shots. They must be produced first--and here's how to do that etc etc. Otherwise, it's easy to assume that stills can be handled just like video clips.

rbowser
ynotfish
Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline
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Ah!

You're right. It's a very different issue.

Are the images distorted in the produced file (ie. a video you watch on your PC)?

If it's only on the DVD, it can almost certainly be fixed by changing the display settings on either/or both your TV & DVD player.

Sorry - I misinterpreted what you'd said.

Cheers - Tony
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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Hi rbowser,
Is there any way you can provide some visual information on what your experiencing so members can use/replicate and the matter can be raised with CyberLink please?

Example of what's needed: Screen capture video, finished video sample, files used for replication and a list of actions you carried out.

If you provide the material, there will be a lot more to go on. Please attach the data to your reply.



edited: "?" "/" added

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Sep 23. 2011 03:38

Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Issues: I'm adding this bit really to confirm something Cranston wrote and to make sure individual issues aren't left/overlooked.

If an issue is spotted then the best action that can happen is for other editors to confirm the findings. The more that confirm the issue the more likely something will be done.

I would encourage newbies and senior members to have a go at a raised issue - see if you can replicate the process and get the same or different results and post on the forum your findings. Replicating issues is the very best way to learn how to use a program.

I don't think anyone else complained or enough confirmed about what Cranston isolated and the issue was put on the "back burner".


Cranston
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Aug 17, 2007 02:26 Messages: 1667 Offline
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Quote:
...that was due to me using Magic Motion directly on the photos, not knowing they had to be rendered as video first.

...from now, I'll be rendering my photos to video before doing any kind of motion automation on them

Sorry, I guess I'm just completely confused here. Or am not reading the posts right. I have been applying motion to still images for over 4 years, with PIP Motion and Magic Motion. Never once having found the need or logic in first producing an image to a video file to add to motion it. Seems quite an uneccesary step. But again, I guess I'm just not understanding this thread at all.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PDtoots#p/u/19/4gPt7y6ipo0


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 23. 2011 09:45

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1Nina
Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline
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Hi all,

I thought maybe I could contribute something to this thread
over the weekend, by trying- or try to replicate something.
The fact of the matter is that I don't know/understand what you (bowser,Dafydd,...mm)
would like me to try out.?
Is it about; if you produce a photo in advance for the production per se,
(with effect as MM applied)
it will give you a better quality?


Edit (sorry)
OR, is it a matter of producing each photo to a videofile before
applying MM?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 23. 2011 09:37


Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com
rbowser [Avatar]
Contributor Joined: Aug 08, 2011 16:48 Messages: 515 Offline
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Quote: Hi rbowser,
Is there any way you can provide some visual information on what your experiencing so members can use/replicate and the matter can be raised with CyberLink please?

Example of what's needed: Screen capture video, finished video sample, files used for replication and a list of actions you carried out.

If you provide the material, there will be a lot more to go on. Please attach the data to your reply.





Excellent, Dafydd - I've put together the screen-shots you requested. The recipe for getting these incorrect results is fairly easy to do, so I hope some editors here take up your challenge to replicate the problem so Cyberlink will have some specific data to go by.

The materials attached:

--"Original photo" - Snapshot of a ceiling sky light. In my PD poject, this was superimposed over video footage of the building's interior.

--"PIP-not-distorted" - Screenshot of the photo aS it looks in PD's preview screen during playback of the project.

--"PIP-distorted" - Screenshot of approximately the same frame of the produced DVD file. The incorrect aspect ratio can be seen.

THE TWO VIDEO CAPS WILL BE ADDED TO A SECOND POST


--"PIP-edit-window" - Video capture of how the photo looks in the PD project when movement automation has been added.

--"PIP-dvd" - Video capture of how the same segment looks in the produced DVD folder. The same distortion can be seen as in the still screenshot.

NOTES:

Photo and video were taken with a Canon PowerShot A590. Video taken with the camera is in .avi format.

In the project, the photo was set to fade in and out over video footage of the same ceiling.

I didn't use Magic Motion. I double clicked the photo to open the PIP editor. I manually set up keyframes so that in the photo's first position, it displayed the way I took the picture. I added an ending keyframe and grabbed the node in the PIP window that controls rotation, and set the photo's second position to be at 180 degrees counter clock-wise from its first position.

On the first tab of the PIP editor, I left the default setting to maintain the aspect ratio.

Besides having the photo fade in and out, added manually with keyframes controlling opacity, that's the only editing I did.

Any photo in this project that I added motion to via the PIP editor suffered the same distortion. Pictures that I animated with Magic Motion didn't have distortion.

CONCLUSIONS: From information on this thread, I understand that this problem would be avoided if I would Produce snapshots first, and then use the PIP editor, Magic Motion, or video FX on the produced video files. When I did this project, I didn't know that still photos shouldn't be edited in the same way as video clips.

It's very possible Cyberlink wouldn't consider this a bug - They probably would consider this distortion problem the result of not handling stills properly in the program.

If that's the case, I would suggest that a warning pop-up could be added to the program when a user attempts to do an edit on a snapshot that isn't going to yield the results he wants. The pop-up could say something like "Oops! You must first produce snapshots to video files before applying automation or video FX."

rbowser






[Thumb - original-photo.JPG]
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rbowser [Avatar]
Contributor Joined: Aug 08, 2011 16:48 Messages: 515 Offline
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The video captures to go with my last post.
 Filename
PIP-dvd (2).avi
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25849 Kbytes
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151 time(s)
 Filename
PIP-edit-window (2).avi
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24209 Kbytes
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166 time(s)
ynotfish
Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline
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Hi rbowser -

Over the course of this thread, I've been a bit confused (& not because I'm stupid!) about:
1. the actual steps you took
2. where the distortion showed up - produced video file or on DVD.

In the attached screen capture, I've tried to replicate what I think you did... or perhaps I was taking the steps I would have taken to do what I THINK you were after. I did NOT produce the image to a video file first. That suggestion was only put in order to apply video effects, which are irrelevant in this case.

I was not able to produce any undesired distortion.

Cheers - Tony
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rbowser_PiP.wmv
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244 time(s)

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