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Experiences or thoughts on differences in overlays
1Nina
Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline
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I came to wonder about what actually happens with overlayd clips.
Of course I can, and will try it out, but still would like to hear if anyone have
experiences or thoughts/explanations on this.

Usually, I just work with the overlays, not really giving much thought about bitrates/framerates.
That's because usually, the clips come from the same source/setting of camera.

Ok. I have a background clip, mp4, 1280x720p, 60fps.
The render will be mp4, 1280x720p/60/12000.
On this background, 4 other clips will fade in and out, keyframing both opacity and movement.
They will display at 480x270, hence the clips will be modified to that size.
So, in theory I will have 5 clips at 1280x720p,60fps of which 4 will "do stuff" in this sequence.
Sequence renders, all good and fine.

So then I got this thought: what if 4 of the clips (overlays) were to be rendered each in advance,
before going in to the project? Rendered to 480x270.....60/12000? 60/6000? 60/3000...or,
perhaps to 30fps?
The "modifying" would then take place within it's own size...??
Will it at all make any difference? Quality? Easier rendering at finish?






Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com
Bubba in TX
Senior Contributor Location: Central Texas Joined: Dec 12, 2009 21:32 Messages: 1332 Offline
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Huh??



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 09. 2011 15:17

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1Nina
Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline
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Well...seeing your post, Bubba, I get the feeling you think my questions were really dumb.
We've had several rounds with resolution and images in here.
I was just thinking about, and wondering, how resolution and bitrates of (several) overlays
impose on rendered finished video if the overlay clips are in different res and br.
(if one or the other will have impact on result in quality, and if one or the other may
burden/lighten the stress on the computer(s) we have)

I may have explained poorly what I mean.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 09. 2011 18:08


Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com
ynotfish
Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline
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Hi Nina -

I've never pre-rendered clips in the way you describe, to construct projects like yours. I've always used the clips directly from my camera (or whatever other source I've chosen).

Nor have I ever tested & compared the two ways of going about it for speed & quality purposes.

I'd assume that (a) there'd be some quality loss & (b) the final render would be faster (possibly negated by the time spent pre-rendering).

I'll give it some thought & have a play later in the day. The garden's calling me!

Cheers - Tony
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I usually save the videos, keeping the same characteristics as possible.
when I create video from photos using HD quality.
In the edition mount, I and resizing of images.
In the end I record HD quality first, and if necessary convert to another standard, such as DVD.
Whenever possible use mode Porgressivo, "PD does not create progressive DVD"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 11. 2011 09:03

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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline
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Nina -

There's a difference in quality... & work for the PC.

I did a little test, using 5 clips shot in 1920x1080 @ 24MBps (.MTS). One clip was the background & the other four were in a wall fashion, as you described. No enhancements were applied in any of the tests.

Test 1:
• No pre-rendering. Used 1080 clips straight off the camera
• PC worked pretty hard during editing - slight lagging (especially in PiP Designer)
• Produced to AVC H.264 1280x720 @ 22.5MBps (took 1:37)

Test 2:
• Pre-rendered same clips to 1280x720 @ 22.5MBps (.M2TS)
• Produced to AVC H.264 1280x720 @ 22.5MBps (took 1:36)

Test 3:
• Pre-rendered clips to 640x480 @ 22.5MBps (.M2TS)
• PC had an easy time editing - no lag
• Produced to AVC H.264 1280x720 @ 22.5MBps (took 1:29)

Threw the three produced files together, rendered them in WMV 1280x720 (to save upload time) & put them here http://www.youtube.com/user/ynotfish77?feature=mhee#p/u/6/q-yMuqVniNk - full screen shows the differences best.

Also rendered as AVC H.264 1280x720 and watched on HDTV through my media player, where the difference between Test 1 & Test 3 was very noticeable.

Summary
• My eyes are getting old
• How you were going to finally view the video would determine your choices during editing.

Cheers - Tony

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 11. 2011 04:47


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1Nina
Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline
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Tony- you're the man!
Thank you so much for doing this.

We shoot/edit/create different ways for different purposes.
You know I try, not only to deepen and broaden my knowledge of video/editing,
but I also strive, step by step, to make videos that in ways will have "my signature".
There are so many brilliant videomakers out there, making brilliant stuff. I am trying
to find (my) ways to get better at maybe achieving what I see "in my head".
For me, video is documentation,story, thrill & emotion- and "painting on canvas",
which then will include working with overlays (in another sense than pips).

We have what we have, computerwise, and I try to hold on to the sensible; that
my level of skills and the powers of my computer should correspond.
My level of skill tech-wise is relativly low. (I still use "common sense" to an extent, when in trouble.)
It's along the wellknown lines: the more you know, the more you know you don't know.
But working as I do, I have been wondering what actually happens with all
the (99?) 10-12 tracks I mostly use, when rendering.. Titles, images, lightbulb-pips and use
of 2-3 tracks don't carry the weight of videoclips in 4-8 tracks. Your test perfectly shows what one
would assume happens:
When you stack up a pile of heavy stuff you better be sure you have muscles!

I shoot in 1280x720p, sometimes 30fps, sometimes higher.
That's the limit to what my pc can handle, working with overlays (i.e.layers)
And now, from your test, Tony, we can see that pre-render layers to smaller resolution
take burden off the computer, but lessens the quality in the finish render.


Thank you again!






Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com
Bubba in TX
Senior Contributor Location: Central Texas Joined: Dec 12, 2009 21:32 Messages: 1332 Offline
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Nina said...........Well...seeing your post, Bubba, I get the feeling you think my questions were really dumb.
We've had several rounds with resolution and images in here.


You ASSUME things when you shouldn't.....................

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 11. 2011 16:34

__________________________________________
Windows 8 Pro 64 bit

CyberLink PowerDirector 10 Tutorials
PDtoots PowerDirector Tutorials

**NOTICE**
When you are asked to provide a DXDIAG you go the following link and do part "B". Your posted specs are NOT what we are looking for as they tell us nothing. The specs on the box of your computer mean nothing. The DXDIAG shows us how your computer is configured as it runs.

DXDIAG Link
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