In English:

This is the regular MP4 container.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_14

This one is the AVC container. What our HD cameras use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

AVCHD is the best for HD video.

Just try to get your head around these facts Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

OK Carl,

You gave it to her in plain English. Now, can you give a couple of "whys" AVCHD is better in good ole' Texican? Then, maybe I could understand, since I have a lot of that sovereign state in my background.

I would also appreciate understanding what one leaves on the table, vis a vis viewer enjoyment, by using one format instead of another. Both AVCHD and Blu Ray (H264 or MPEG-2) record at 1920X1080.

As a techie, I admit to being a functional idiot.

Thanks,

Pax Laptop PC, ASUS
Core i7 Q 720
Win 7, 64-bit
RAM 8GB DDR2
Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce GTS 360M 1GB DDR5

You gave it to her in plain English. Now, can you give a couple of "whys" AVCHD is better in good ole' Texican?

Well Pax, I don't know how I can explain in Texan, but one of the advantages of H.264 is its higher compression rate.
That makes for smaller files with very little lost of quality.

H.264 when compared to Mpeg 2 is much smaller file size for the same video.

H.264 does the same 1920x1080 and high bitrate as Mpeg 2 in a smaller file size. For a BluRay disk that means more video on a disk. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Thanks Carl. I lived most of my life in Houston. Been to Tyler many times.

Regards,

Pax Laptop PC, ASUS
Core i7 Q 720
Win 7, 64-bit
RAM 8GB DDR2
Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce GTS 360M 1GB DDR5

Pax, I am a bit east of Houston, I live in Jasper. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Hi Nina -

I understand very little of the technical mumbo-jumbo, but I do understand (as Carl said) that the way AVC H.264 compressed is more efficient than the compression used for MPEG-4. I also understand that AVC H.264 gives you a smaller file size & the same quality at a lower bitrate.

As an experiment, I just made a little slideshow and produced it to:
(a) AVC H.264 1920x1080 @ 12MBps (even though PD told me it was 15.5MBps)
and
(b) MPEG-4 1920x1080 @ 15MBps

I watched the two on my PC, through a media player & on BR and these old eyes couldn't see any difference.

The reports from MediaInfo are attached, showing a difference in file size (it was only an 11 minute slideshow) of about 200MB.

Part of the slideshow is on its way to YouTube right now. When it gets there, the left half was originally produced as AVC H.264 & the right side as MPEG-4 (it's masked). On my media player, I couldn't detect a centre line (which there would be if the two clips were vastly different).

The YouTube video was produced to AVC H.264 1920x1080, so there's some re-rendering involved. I'll pop the link in when it reaches YT.

Cheers - Tony

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Hi Carl,

Thanks for the links given. I had already been to Wikipedia. In Norwegian it offers very little
on the subject, so for this I have to rely on my English.

You state the opinion that AVCHD (Sony/Panasonic) is the best format for HD video.
As I'm not burning DVD's much (perhaps a couple a year), I'm just wondering if you mean
best format for burning/TV, best for blue-ray's, internet - or just best format for HD, period.

from Wikipedia:

AVCHD is a high-definition recording format designed by Sony and Panasonic that uses H.264
(conforming to H.264 while adding additional application-specific features and constraints).

The H.264 video format has a very broad application range that covers all forms of digital compressed video from low bit-rate Internet streaming applications to HDTV broadcast and Digital Cinema applications with nearly lossless coding. With the use of H.264, bit rate savings of 50% or more are reported.

Actually (and strangely) I find it rather interesting to read about this stuff. I can see why
people ask for guidance and answers. Being, I guess, a pragmatic person, I can see why many
will stay with .wmv templates. The fields of MPEG(s) are wide.

During my googling, I could find that Microsoft in February 2011 did first remove their support for
H.264 in the Chrome browser- only to support it again shortly after.
That means YT supporting H.264, I assume.
(As I'm writing this, I'm not sure if Mozilla FF supports H.264 or not.)

So, what format do we use for "best quality" and "smallest filesize" when producing for the net,
aside from "mp4"?

Nina


Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

Gees, Tony -

while I was "struggeling" to make a post with some
meaning to it- you came with good input.
Curious; will YT RE-RENDER the AVC H.264?

Nina
Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

Nina -

I'm very certain that YouTube will do something with it. I'm equally certain that I don't know WHAT it is!

A more experienced tuber might be able to help with that one...

When I mentioned re-rendering, I meant that the MPEG-4 I originally produced was then re-rendered as AVC H.264 for YT.

In my quest to get an answer for myself to your question, I came across this http://www.h263l.com/

Cheers - Tony
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Thanks, Tony-
I'm thinking a re- render of H.264 would be to 1280x720
- or there abouts, not actually the codec.....?

Thanks for the link.
I will carefully read after I've been to the shops.
Easterholidays here- shops open only a few hours today-
after being closed 2 days, and closing again for another
2 days.

Post the link to YT when it's up?

Nina
Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

Down the bottom of this page, Youtube is about to encode all of it's videos to a new format called WebM
http://www.engadget.com/page/6/
http://www.youtube.com/html5 My youtube channel====> http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2?feature=mhsn

What an outstanding thread this is! Tony, your referenced link,
http://www.h263l.com/

states that H.264 is the most advanced video coding standard available today. It uses many new coding techniques not available in MPEG2, MPEG4 and H.263. This chart shows the evolution of video coding standards.

WOW!! Now, when I go to produce in PD9 and see H.264 as an option, I am impressed!

Tony, I, and I am sure many more, are eagerly awaiting the link to your video.

Pax
Laptop PC, ASUS
Core i7 Q 720
Win 7, 64-bit
RAM 8GB DDR2
Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce GTS 360M 1GB DDR5

Thanks Pax -

I'm not sure that it actually shows much... except that I can't spot much of a difference!

http://www.youtube.com/user/ynotfish77?feature=mhum#p/u/6/OACrO-9jMa0

Robert -

Thank you for the YouTube information. That's another thing about which I hadn't a clue!

Cheers - Tony
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Tony,
I can see a slight difference between the Right and Left side of the video.

Some of the images, the Right side is a tiny bit less sharp. But you have to look very hard to see any difference.

Great NASA slideshow. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Hi guys,


There will be a couple of x'es here, yes?
Your slideshow, Tony- it can be watched up till 1080p.
So- YT has re-rendered, I then assume, to .....what?
According to Robert2S' link, the "new codec VP8" WebM is what YT goes by now.

We support browsers that support both the video tag in HTML5 and either the h.264 video codec
or the WebM format (with VP8 codec).

So is it re-rendered to WebM-format, or is h.264 kept?

I've watched your slideshow a couple of times, in different p's.
Another x is of course the photos as such.
Curious about what you think. My eye-sight is (very) far from the best, and I am not sure
at all for the whole slideshow,
but to me it seems the left side is slightly crispier,
which would mean the h.264....
And even if re-rendered to this WebM-format, it would seem (again to me) h.264 would be a
slightly better source.

Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

Just a personal comment about video quality. I recently had my 30 year old super8 movies converted to digital. The quality was very very bad, some of them so degraded it was almost too late to convert them. I really really enjoyed the trip down memory lane.

What I am trying to say is are we trying to record memories or perfect clinical renditions? I am not saying to stop searching for quality, but how far do we go.....a "Red" video camera that records at 42mbps?

My youtube channel====> http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2?feature=mhsn

Nina,

You state the opinion that AVCHD (Sony/Panasonic) is the best format for HD video.
As I'm not burning DVD's much (perhaps a couple a year), I'm just wondering if you mean
best format for burning/TV, best for blue-ray's, internet - or just best format for HD, period.

H.264 is good for all uses.
That does not mean that I am going to convert my Camera footage to h.264 since it shoots BDAV (Blu-ray Video) which is a AVC format.

I just mentioned BluRay because I can see a big difference in space used between H.264 and MPEG2.

I can fit a 2 hour movie on a single layer (25GB) BluRay disk in H.264. That same movie would require a double layer (50GB) BluRay disk in MPEG2.
Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Carl,

thanks for replying to my question to you.
I started this thread because I'm looking for
something other than "mp4" as PD offers, to produce
in. I am not familiar producing in h.264, but after
a couple of days reading, and having this thread going,
I will try producing in h.264 shorter and longer
projects, and see if my computer's cpu and PD9 can
get better along in that environment.
I've been using the "mp4" for a long time, being content
with the quality.

Nina
Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

Nina,

I think you should experiment a little before you decide to make all of your videos in H.264, for some uses, WMV is hard to beat for small file sizes.

I think H.264 is far better quality than WMV.

Youtube re-renders everything uploaded. The Flash player does a good job, but it does lower the quality of the video some.
Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.