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Strange rendering differences/problem - Build 2316 vs 2702
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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I was working on a project testing the use of the swing effect. This project was rendered in PD9 build 2316 and 2702.

The project plays fine in the Media Viewer in PD9 in both builds. Normal slight degradation when playing the movie in the preview window.

When rendered (produced) in build 2316 the result is as I expected. I did renderings with and without hardware acceleration. H.264 - AVCHD 1920X1080p

I applied the 2702 patch, opened the project and repeated the exact renderings with and without hardware acceleration as in 2316. The resulting files from 2702 have two strange occurences.
1 - The yellow band around the bottom of the rink boards are semi-transparent when rendered in build 2702 (not in build 2316).
2 - The first .jpg is flashing at the beginning of the swing at the 30 second mark (approx). It flashes for a short period of time then becomes solid as it changes to the second .jpg. This result does not appear in the render using 2316.

Also, this effect does not display when previewed in the preview window, or the media player before producing in build 2702 or 2316.

I get this result every time I produce. I have only tested with H.264

Here is the make up of the project.

Track 1 - Color board starting at 30:16 - Duration 18:00
Track 2 - 3 .jpg images starting at 30:16 - Duration 06:00 each
Track 3 - 1 .png image (frame) Starting at 30:16 - Duration 18:00
Track 4 - Panasonic .m2ts file - Start - 00:00 - Duration 45:16 - Audio moved to voice track - W/B adjust - Swing effect
Track 5 - Panasonic .m2ts file - Start - 00:00 - Duration 30:16 - Audio muted - Swing effect
Track 6 - Panasonic .m2ts file - Start - 00:00 - Duration 19:01 - Audio muted - Swing effect
Track 7 - Panasonic .m2ts file - Start - 00:00 - Duration 08:16 - Audio muted - Swing effect
Voice Track - Audio from Track 4
Music Track - Magic Music Orleans Romp - Bon Temps

Each swing keyframe is set to start as soon as the previous swing ends. Swing pattern is Down, Right, Up, then Left.

Attached is the Media info for each of the files.

The 2316 rendered file
The 2702 rendered file

If anyone is interested in taking a look, any suggestions as to what might be the cause would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Hal
 Filename
mediainfobuild2702.txt
[Disk]
 Description
Media info for the 2702 rendered file
 Filesize
2 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
293 time(s)
 Filename
mediainfobuild2316.txt
[Disk]
 Description
Media info for the 2316 rendered file
 Filesize
2 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
367 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 10. 2011 19:42

OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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I started a new project with the same files. I cleared all media from the time lines and rebuilt the project as before.

This time I produced to both H.264 1920X1810p and .mp4 Best quality. The results were the same, but the .mp4 showed a lot more flashing of the .jpg images.

I did correct the semi-transparent portions of the video by changing the background color for the swing effect and the intensity level of the Chroma key.

If anyone is interested I will upload a copy of the .mp4 to youtube in the morning.

Hal
OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
My YouTube
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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Update:

Here is the .mp4 version for those that are interested.

Media info is attached.

Hal
 Filename
mediainfobuild2702mp4.txt
[Disk]
 Description
Media info for .mp4 version
 Filesize
3 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
308 time(s)
OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
My YouTube
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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Update:

Mpeg-2 HDV mpeg2 720p with hardware acceleration produces normal. No flashing.
WMV 9 Full HD 1920X1080 with hardware acceleration produces normal. No flashing.
MOV - When I try to produce to MOV Full HD PD9 closes. QuickTime 7.6.9(1680.9) installed.

Hal

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 12. 2011 11:11

OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
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All vodi
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline
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Halcon,

When I updated to release 2702 (from 2504) I also noticed weird behaviour in rendering differences and PD9 behaviour in general. So much so that one project done in release 2316 last year had to be completely redone due to transition rendering issues - now it's OK.

What I ended up doing is as follows:
- Removed PD9 in it's entirety using the control panel of Win7.
- Using a registry cleaner I removed all references related to PD9.
- Reloaded PD9

I had to do this for the update from 2330a to 2504 as well. And in both instances weird behaviour and rendering differences have been resolved. It's beginning look like a housekeeping problem within PD9 judging by the number of users running into alteration in PD9 operation after applying an update. We'll have to wait and see. Win 10, i7
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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HHedit,

Just did a complete removal and reinstall, upgrade to latest patch and still have the problem.

Think I will go back to 2316 and try one patch at a time. Or just stay with 2316. It was working good for me except for slow rendering times.

Hal

OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
My YouTube
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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Another update for those following this:

I just conducted a few more tests:

Test 1 & 2
One video clip, swing down effect on track 7, orange color background
Three images (.jpg test1 & .png test2) on track 2
Red color board on track 1

Results of these tests show flashing of the images as the swing progresses.

Test 3
One video clip, swing down effect on track 7, orange color background
Video clip sized to about 1/3 screen, centered
Red color board on track 1

The flashing effect does not occur with video clips.

The other strange thing about this is, while in the edit room if I render preview then view the movie I do not get this flashing effect.

This may be specific to HD video. I also tested using the sample clips and some of my older .mod SD clips from my JVC camers. These produced with no ill effects.

So the saga continues.

Hal
OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
My YouTube
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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Update again,

I have narrowed the problem to the .jpg images that I am using.

I tested using the nature.mpg and one of the .jpg images from my Olympus E410 DSLR. Got the flashing again. Added one of the sample .jpg files beside the Olympus .jpg and the result was not good

Here is the result (16 second clip)

I guess I have to conclude that the problem lies with how the .jpg files created with my Olympus and the PD9 2702 swing effect on video are combined during production.

Hal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 12. 2011 23:59

OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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Another update (I know, stop with the updates):

But, I want to narrow this down to make it easier to replicate or fix.

I did the complete removal and reinstall again to test each patch for the flashing effect when using the Swing effect and certain .jpeg files.

In an earlier post I thought the problem was with HD video clips, but this has been proven wrong in subsequent tests. The problem seems to lie in the area of how build 2702 produces the combination of a swing effect with certain .jpg images.

As previously mentioned, if I render preview in the edit window the movie plays fine. The flashing only happens when produced in the Produce room.

For the following tests I used the supplied Nature.mpg (swinging), Aerial.jpg (top left) and a .jpg (top right) from my camera.

Screen shot attached shows work space and .jpeg properties.

The test results below are 16 second clips produced to H.264 AVCHD 1920 X 1080p. with hardware acceleration enabled.

Build 2316 no flashing.
Build 2330 no flashing.
Build 2504 no flashing. (I skipped 2330a because I have an ATI video card)
Build 2702 the flashing begins.

Hal
[Thumb - jpegproperties.png]
 Filename
jpegproperties.png
[Disk]
 Description
Work space and jpeg properties
 Filesize
437 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
278 time(s)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Mar 13. 2011 08:29

OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Hi Hal,
Please can you provide a couple of sample images from the Olympus E410 DSLR?
Sorry for the delay in getting to this post.... should have been onto it much much sooner.
Thank you for the reminders.
Brilliant work locating the possible cause.
Thank you
Dafydd

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 24. 2011 15:30

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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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Dafydd,

Here are the samples from my still camera.

Thanks for looking.

Hal
[Thumb - tjcaps06 019.jpg]
 Filename
tjcaps06 019.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Test jpg #1
 Filesize
6317 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
245 time(s)
[Thumb - TJCaps 076.jpg]
 Filename
TJCaps 076.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Test jpg #2
 Filesize
6000 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
269 time(s)
[Thumb - tj0502 210.jpg]
 Filename
tj0502 210.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
5625 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
258 time(s)
OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
My YouTube
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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Hi Hal,
CL have been unable to replicate the issue and are requesting you repeat test on v2930 and report back please.

Requested additional information by CL:
1. Video card used and present driver - up-to-date diagnostic please?
2. Check for driver update and retest - does the issue still occur?
3. You're on an XP platform, if I remember correctly or are you on W7/64bit - please state which? The diagnostic will reveal this info.

ref 185. 2011-03-28 PD9 Flashing bug in some still images upon rendering.
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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Dafydd,

I will try to get all that done tonight.

I am not sure which video driver I was using at the time. You will see the one that I have currently installed in the diagnostic attached. I believe it is the latest, unless there as one released this month. Video card is an ATI HD4670 1gig.

I will try the render of the same projects with the new patch. I have not yet updated to v2930, although I have downloaded the patch.

I will install the patch and render the project to see if the problem persists.

You are corrrect, I am on a Win XP platform. All updates and SP's installed.

Hal

ps. forgot to attach the diagnostic.
 Filename
HalDxDiag0621.txt
[Disk]
 Description
Dxdiag as of today
 Filesize
55 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
294 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jun 21. 2011 18:14

OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
My YouTube
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HalCon
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Charlottetown, PEI Joined: Mar 01, 2008 10:36 Messages: 718 Offline
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Update,

I just rendered the same project using v2930 and am getting the same flashing effect.

Am uploading the test video to youtube. In this video the flashing starts as the first .jpg comes into view behind the swinging video at 31 seconds in.

Attached is a full screen shot of the edit area as requested by another member.

Here is the video produced with v2930

Hal


[Thumb - flashingswing.png]
 Filename
flashingswing.png
[Disk]
 Description
Edit window
 Filesize
211 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
235 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jun 21. 2011 19:43

OS - Win11 Pro, Alienware R13, CPU - Intel Core I7-12700KF 12 CPUs), 16g DDR5 4400 RAM, Video - Geeforce RTX 3080ti 12g, PD11 & PD365
My YouTube
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Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Thanks Hal,
I've grabbed everything and sending to CL for investigation.
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