Edit: This statement is Wrong.
Powerdirector does not directly support Ogg audio files.

It does support OGV video but not the audio part.
At least the video works on my system, I do have a K-lite mega pack installed.
I have some OGV files downloaded from Wikipedia that the video plays but the sound does not.


Edit: This statement is true.
You can use a file converter to convert the OGG audio to WAV or WMA or MP3. Prefer WAV.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Dear Carl

Thanks for the prompt reply.
OK. I understand that I have to convert the OGG audio before being able to import the MP4 file into PD12 for editing.

I tried Any Video Converter (which I found in the net) and Format Factory (which I found in the Forum). They both convert the audio component only to AAC (no option for WAV).
What I did is to use Format Factory to convert the audio from OGG to AAC, while keeping the AVC(H264) video format. Then, I imported into PD12 and edited the audio with Wave Editor to get a WAV file. It worked. At first “sight”, the resulting audio is OK.

I have 2 questions, though.

1) The way of getting to WAV audio
• Is my indirect way of getting from OGG to WAV audio Ok or is there a more direct way that I did not find?

2) The loss question in the audio conversion
I understand that AAC is a lossy compression (I learned that in Wikipedia) and what is lost in going from OGG to AAC cannot be recovered by reconverting into WAV.
Furthermore, as far as I know, the MPEG-4 files produced with PD12 have AAC audio.
• So, what is the advantage of reconverting into WAV? Why not stick to AAC audio?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edgar Rocha

Quote: I have 2 questions, though.

1) The way of getting to WAV audio
• Is my indirect way of getting from OGG to WAV audio Ok or is there a more direct way that I did not find?

2) The loss question in the audio conversion
I understand that AAC is a lossy compression (I learned that in Wikipedia) and what is lost in going from OGG to AAC cannot be recovered by reconverting into WAV.
Furthermore, as far as I know, the MPEG-4 files produced with PD12 have AAC audio.
• So, what is the advantage of reconverting into WAV? Why not stick to AAC audio?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edgar Rocha

On Question 1, download and install Format Factory, it can convert nearly every Video and Audio format to most other formats.

If I am not mistaken OGG is uncompressed and WAV is uncompressed, so there is no loss. The conversion is a basic copy of the data to a different container.

On Question 2, Have you tried using OGG audio file in Powerdirector 12?
It is one to the formats that is listed as supported.

from pd12 help:
Audio: M4A, MP3, OGG, WAV, WMA

It seems I made a mistake when I said Powerdirector does not support OGG files. All of the versions I have PD9, PD11 and PD12 all support OGG audio.

I have tested a OGG file in Powerdirector 9,11 and 12 they work as it should. no conversion needed.
Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Well, I have really made a mess of this answer.

What I know to be true, because I have tested this in Powerdirector 12 Ultra.

Import a *.OGV video file into the Powerdirector library, it will play video and audio in the library (I have K-Lite Codec Pack).

Drag that file to the timeline, you get the video with no audio file.

If you convert in Format Factory the *.OGV to either *.OGG or WAV audio file, you can place the converted audio in the audio track of PowerDirector and you have your audio restored.

If I do a conversion, I always convert to WAV, because WAV is very reliable in PowerDirector.

Now if you have a *.OGG audio file, that audio file will play in Powerdirector's Library and Track.

But, a *.OGV video file with a OGG audio track will not play the audio part. You must convert to a WAV audio file.

Yes, I know this is complicated, but that is the way it is.
Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Dear Carl
You are right, it is complicated. But putting together your replies with some research in the net (Wikipedia mainly, together with Audacity’s Help and Vorbis’ Site) things became a little less obscure.

1) To make PD12 accept to edit a video file with OGG/VORBIS audio content
You asked me if I had tried using OGG audio file in PD12 (because, according to PD12’s Help, OGG audio is supported). No, I had not. So, with Audacity (Any Audio Converter or Format Factory can do the same, I believe), I extracted the audio track of the MP4 video file and saved it as an independent OGG audio file. Then I imported it to PD12 Library and dragged it to the Timeline. PD12 played it perfectly well. So, you are right, PD12 supports OGG audio if it comes in an independent audio file. So, your statement that no conversion of the audio track should be needed because PD12 reads OGG audio is correct.

However, afterwards you noticed that OGV video files imported to the Library and dragged to the Timeline become soundless. And you added that one can solve that problem by replacing the soundless audio track of the video file by an independent OGG or WAV audio file extracted from the video file by Format Factory. In other words, what you showed is that, with a separate audio file, one can make PD12 accept the OGG audio that was rejected when it came as a component of the video file.

To apply your idea to my case, I had to do one instrumental conversion. As opposed to what happens with your OGV video file, it is impossible to import my MP4 video file with OGG audio into the PD12 Library: the program just closes down. So, I had to use Format Factory to convert the MP4 video file with OGG audio into a similarly MP4 video file, but with AAC audio (it has to be to AAC audio, the WAV option is not available). Such a file can be imported into the Library and dragged to the Timeline. Then, one can unlink the video and the audio tracks, keep the MPEG-4 video and replace the AAC audio track by the separate OGG audio file extracted from the original video file. This is the way to remain as close as possible to the video and audio components of the original video file and avoid unnecessary conversions that always bring about some additional loss.
So, the problem of using PD12 to edit video MP4 files with OGG audio content like the one I downloaded from YouTube is solved.
2) Is there any advantage in converting the audio into WAV?
Before, I thought that I had to convert the audio to AAC or WAV because I suspected that PD12 did not read OGG audio. Now that I was proved wrong and a way has been found to edit OGG audio, the conversion of the audio into AAC becomes just a trick to make PD12 accept to import the video file.
However, you argued in favour of conversion to WAV audio, for 2 reasons.
First, OGG audio is uncompressed, just like WAV audio. Thereby, there would be no loss in the conversion OGG to WAV.
I have checked and rechecked before writing this: you are wrong, OGG audio is a method of lossy compression, just like MP3, MPEG-4’s AAC or Dolby Laboratories’ AC3/DolbyDigital (sources: Wikipedia and Vorbis’ Site).
[By the way, I learned that uncompressed (therefore, lossless) formats are mostly CD Audio, WAV (Microsoft’s 16 bit PCM) and AIFF (Apple’s 16 bit PCM). And that the most common lossless compression method is that of the FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) format.]
The consequence is that it is useless to convert the OGG audio into WAV audio. As a matter of fact, what was lost in the OGG lossy compression cannot be recovered by reconverting to the WAV format.
So, from the point of view of the quality of the sound, it seems to me that it is better to stick to the OGG audio.
Your second argument is that WAV is very reliable in Power Director. This is a weighty argument, specially if the OGG or AAC audio formats raise problems.

If I am not very wrong, my problem and my doubts are solved.

Thank you very much for your help

Edgar Rocha

Quote: However, you argued in favour of conversion to WAV audio, for 2 reasons.
First, OGG audio is uncompressed, just like WAV audio. Thereby, there would be no loss in the conversion OGG to WAV.
I have checked and rechecked before writing this: you are wrong, OGG audio is a method of lossy compression, just like MP3, MPEG-4’s AAC or Dolby Laboratories’ AC3/DolbyDigital (sources: Wikipedia and Vorbis’ Site).
[By the way, I learned that uncompressed (therefore, lossless) formats are mostly CD Audio, WAV (Microsoft’s 16 bit PCM) and AIFF (Apple’s 16 bit PCM). And that the most common lossless compression method is that of the FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) format.]
The consequence is that it is useless to convert the OGG audio into WAV audio. As a matter of fact, what was lost in the OGG lossy compression cannot be recovered by reconverting to the WAV format.
So, from the point of view of the quality of the sound, it seems to me that it is better to stick to the OGG audio.
Your second argument is that WAV is very reliable in Power Director. This is a weighty argument, specially if the OGG or AAC audio formats raise problems.

If I am not very wrong, my problem and my doubts are solved.

Thank you very much for your help

Edgar Rocha

I must not have investigated to OGG format closely, I was under the impression It was one of the uncompressed formats.

The reason I thought that was because is it one the open container formats. I see reading the OGG article on Wikipedia, that there are both compressed and uncompressed codecs in use.

Quote from Wikipedia:

Uncompressed OggPCM: handles uncompressed PCM audio. It is broadly comparable to WAV.[30]

There is an uncompressed OGG codec, and it is comparable to WAV.

ACC audio contained in a video file is nearly never a problem in Powerdirector.
I have tested a AAC audio file only in Powerdirector. It does work.

The way I tested was I used Audacity to export the various audio formats. I test all the audio format in Powerdirector.

File formats in the Audio Test.
AC3, M4A, MP2, MP3, WAV, WMA, AAC.

Actually AAC is tested twice, the M4A is AAC.
Attached my test audio files, just extract put in Powerdirector, test in the library and on the track.

In my Powerdirector 12 all of these audio formats have sound.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Dear Carl

Thank you for your reply.

1) OGG audio
You are right. OGG seems to be a container format which, in addition to video, can contain audio obtained by various methods (various Codecs), including an uncompressed format.
However, the most common audio found in OGG files seems to be of the Vorbis format, which is both compressed and lossy. It usually comes in files with the .ogg extension (though, technically, the audio only OGG files should have the extension .oga) and is more commonly known as Ogg Vorbis or just Vorbis audio format.
I used your “OldRuggedCross” test file in the WAV version to create .ogg audio files. With Audacity, it is the export option “OggVorbis files”. With Format Factory, it is the conversion option “OGG” in the Audio Tab. In Any Audio Converter and in Any VideoConverter it is the conversion option “OGG Vorbis audio (.ogg)”.
The resulting files all have .ogg extensions and they are all identified as having audio format “Vorbis” and compression mode “lossy” both by MediaInfo and Format Factory.
So, what is usually called OGG audio is this compressed and lossy Vorbis version.

I also found reference to an OggPCM audio Codec or format. As far as I understand, it is an uncompressed digital audio format similar to what is found in Compact Disc Digital Audio (.cda files), in Microsoft’s PCM format (.wav files) and in Apple’s PCM format (.aiff files). I have never seen an OggPCM file and I do not have the means to create one starting from a .wav file. I wonder how MediaInfo and Format Factory would identify such files. Probably with “PCM” for the audio format and no information on the compression mode.

2) Audio files read by Power Director 12
Thanks for the 7 “OldRuggedCross_test” audio files provided by you. To these 7 files, I added up the .ogg file I obtained by converting your .wav test file.
Importing all of them into PD12 was tricky and I only found out how to do it because I knew you had been able to do it. As a matter of fact, the “Import Media Files” window of my version of PD12 only detects audio files with the following extensions: *.wav; *.mp3; *.wma; *.ogg; and *.m4a. As a consequence, it did not show the test files with extensions .aac, .ac3 and .mp2. To make them visible and select them for import, I had to choose “All files (*.*)” in the Files Type tab.
This way, PD12 imported all the 8 audio files and played them both from the Library and from the Timeline. There is one exception, though: the .aac file does not play from the Library, only after it is dragged into the Timeline. This is strange. As a matter of fact, .mp4 video files with AAC audio and independent .m4a audio files (also AAC audio) are perfectly read by PD12. So, why should independent AAC audio files be read only in the Timeline? Anyway, having to place the file in the Timeline to be able to play it is just a minor inconvenience.
So, except for this detail, my version of PD12, like yours, reads the test files.
[Incidentally, I also experimented with a FLAC file (lossless compression) which I created by using Format Factory to convert the .wav test file, but PD12 does not import it.]

In summary, the problem that led me to ask the current question has been solved, and I learned a lot in the process. Thanks to you, I found that the cause of my problem was that PD12 does not read the audio Ogg Vorbis content of video files (at least in mp4 files, like mine, and in .ogv files, like yours), but that it reads that very same audio format when it comes in an independent audio file. Also thanks to you, I learned how to extract and separate the Ogg Vorbis audio content and to recover it by reinserting it in the Timeline as an independent audio file. Finally, I became aware that I should avoid loss by unnecessary conversions and that I should use wave audio (.wav) whenever available from the source.

Thanks a lot for the attention you gave to my question.

Edgar Rocha

Quote: Thanks a lot for the attention you gave to my question.

Edgar Rocha

You are welcome.

After I uploaded the zip with the 7 audio formats, then as you did took the WAV file and exported a OGG file using Audacity.
So Yes, I am well aware that Audacity can do that.

Importing all of them into PD12 was tricky and I only found out how to do it because I knew you had been able to do it. As a matter of fact, the “Import Media Files” window of my version of PD12 only detects audio files with the following extensions: *.wav; *.mp3; *.wma; *.ogg; and *.m4a. As a consequence, it did not show the test files with extensions .aac, .ac3 and .mp2. To make them visible and select them for import, I had to choose “All files (*.*)” in the Files Type tab.

The easy way to import all 7 audio formats into Powerdirector is to select the 7 files in Windows Explorer, then drag them to the Powerdirector library window.

Granted, you can use the Import function and change the file type to All files.

By the way that short sample of 'The Old Rugged Cross' is a clip from a Royalty free Album that I bought some time ago.
Your method of using the WAV file as the basis for the other file formats it exactly how I made them in Audacity.

It has been interesting and fun.
I learned some things from you also.
Carl


Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Today I found that my PD12 doesn't open .ogg any more after uninstalling some "cruft" on my system. I found the more or less official DirectShow filter from xiph.org to work in Windows Media Player but not in PD. Wikipedia mentioned another project named RadLight Ogg Media that has been discontinued from 2005 on but can still be downloaded from free-codecs.com and works great with PowerDirector (32-bit at least)!