Quote: Does that mean we are looking at low resolution shadow files in the preview window?

Hi Al -

After exploring this in some depth, I can say with reasonable confidence that we're looking at the original file in preview - NOT the SD shadow file.

With shadow files enabled I imported a range of clips - UHD, genuine 4K & an 8K file produced in PDR. After the shadow files had generated, I moved the clips to the timeline and took snapshots. As expected they were full resolution images.

Next I physically imported the 720x480 shadow files & repeated the procedure with snapshots, just for comparison. Under normal editing condidtions, what we're seeing in preview is the original file... illustrated in the difference between the two lots of (partial) snapshots.



Pretty much nails it, I think

Cheers - Tony
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Hello, Shadowman!

I've just now downloaded the PDF file of Optodata's "instruction manual" for Magic+PD(or Magic+YUV). As I stated, what I wanted to avoid was extra-large AVI files clogging up my hard drive, even temporarily! If Magic+PD was able to produce those compressed(smaller file-size) AVI's, that would be the ideal. The only practical method for me would be to have another external drive, dedicated to the purpose of housing the temporary AVI's until I've finished editing my video..... not practical due to the cost of those external drives! Reading the PDF, even briefly, tells me that what I wanted wasn't possible. Heck, the programme doesn't even handle the "workhorse" MPEG2 files... Damn! I may need time to fully digest the PDF file... Leave it with me.

Neil.

Thanks Tony - Great images but sorry I'm confused. Did you capture those images from the PDR14 preview window? 8k? So each frame I preview, PDR14 is reconstructing from the original compressed MP4 (HD or 4k) capture file in my bin - rather than showing me the shadow files its using in the timeline? My theory was that M+PD decompresses the MP4 file, does not use shadow files, and therefore is giving a better quality HD preview when scrubbing or playing the timeline. Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

I momentarily had a thought: What if I could render back to MP4 using Magic+PD but opening the programme blew that idea away like a puff of smoke hitting a fan. Magic+PD only provides for rendering to AVI! AVI = "huge files" No thanks, not even on a temporary basis! For the moment I'll leave Magic+PD where it is on my computer, but if I don't/can't come up with another use for it, then it's "Bye-Bye, Magic+PD!"

Neil.

Neil - Magic+PD doesn't render anything. It only decompresses your camera clips to large AVI files. You import those AVI files into PDR14, edit as normal and render out to your H.264 AVC(MP4). You're almost there. Give it a try before you say bye-bye.
Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

Neil

Every piece of this information was available to you from the very beginning had you bothered to read it.

Now you are telling us what you think about the program, and your thoughts are nothing but negative ones. My concern is that your comments will deter genuine editors from trying M+PD. I think it would be good if you made a statement admitting that you have never used the program and frankly have no idea whatsoever it does.

If you do use it, I will help you, but until then, please, no more negative comments. Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,

Robert - I think it's just a misunderstanding of how it works and why to use it. Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

Quote: Did you capture those images from the PDR14 preview window?

There's a fair bit of confusion in this thread & I hope I'm not contributing to it. Yes - those snapshots were captured in Preview by clicking the snapshot button (camera icon).

I thought that would be an accurate way to compare what you normally see in Preview with Shadow Files enabled (left side) with the preview of the actual shadow file (right side). Embarrassingly that turned out not to be so clever because PDR's snapshot of the actual shadow file (720x480) was captured at the resolution of the original file!

Here are some examples of the above. Two of them are unaltered snapshots from PDR - one of the original UHD clip & the other of the shadow file - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxp60P6x4uM2bF8yU3RncmlyNGM/view?usp=sharing

So - there was a flaw in my thinking & a flaw in PDR's capture of the snapshot! My previous assertion that what you're seeing in preview is the original file has taken a blow to its confidence Perhaps someone can rescue me from this mess I've created.

~'`'~.¸><(((º>

Neil -

There's almost certainly no advantage to you in using Magic+PD since you're not recording ultra high definition clips with very high bitrates, as far as I'm aware.

Cheers - Tony
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Quote: Neil

Every piece of this information was available to you from the very beginning had you bothered to read it.

Now you are telling us what you think about the program, and your thoughts are nothing but negative ones. My concern is that your comments will deter genuine editors from trying M+PD. I think it would be good if you made a statement admitting that you have never used the program and frankly have no idea whatsoever it does.

If you do use it, I will help you, but until then, please, no more negative comments.

Shadowman!

I don't think I'm being negative here. I've downloaded to programme to "suss it out" so-to-speak. And from what I can see, I just don't think it fulfills my own requirements, that's all. I've already explained what I want/need in processing video. I'm trying to avoid using video files of too great a size(in megabytes, up to gigabytes), even temporarily, I just don't want large files choking up my computer's hard-drive, and external hard-drives don't come cheap. I don't want to appear to "knock" Magic+PD, but I'm afraid I have no use for it myself. Others, however, may find it useful. As I've already explained, I need something that will allow me to create AVI files of 1 gigabyte or less for up to two hours of content, much like those websites which offer feature-length movies for download, these movies are downloaded as AVI and often they're not much more than 700-to-800 megabytes in file size, usually less. That's what I've wanted all along!

I think it's been more of a misunderstanding of my needs and my comments being misinterpreted as being negative.

Neil.

Actually, I think Tony(Ynotfish) summed it up neatly in his latest post on this thread:

"Neil - There's almost certainly no advantage to you in using Magic+PD since you're not recording ultra high definition clips with very high bitrates, as far as I'm aware".

Quote: Robert - I think it's just a misunderstanding of how it works and why to use it.

Exactly! Thank you, AIS! Clearly you and Tony(Ynotfish) are on the same wavelength on this matter.

An analogy: it's like someone who's looking for a station wagon because a sedan no longer suits his needs, but gets offered a utility instead(our American & canadian friends refer to these as "pick-ups"). Get my drift?

Cheers!

Neil.

Neil

Thank you for the clarification.

Robert Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,

The trouble is that the core of this discussion has already been had - http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/47768.page

The specific purposes for using MagicYUV have previously been clarified - http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/47768.page#249761

In that thread, it was already established that using Magic_PD wasn't appropriate for Neil's purposes. In a comment specifically addressed to Neil, Robert wrote "Magic+PD was designed to help users who edit material that contains very high bitrates, and to the greater extent this is 4K material. To anybody else, the program will have little value."

Going round in circles won't get us anywhere except somewhere else on the circle.

Cheers - Tony
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Thanks, Tony, I was getting dizzy... Regards,
Dan
Power Director 21-Ultimate
v 21.0.3111.0
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(10 core, 20M Cache),
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NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8GB GDDR6

Thanks Tony - point taken - but I have to disagree with "To anybody else, the program will have little value"
What was you conclusion about Shadow Files? What are we looking at in preview if we have shadow files on?
Why don't you ever use shadow files? What about 4k?

Neil - sorry thing got so confusing - let me try and go back to your original post.

My understanding is that your camera captures MP4.
You edit sequences and produce out to H.264 AVC(MP4) files (All HD I assume?)
From your post:
"I figure MP4 to be a lossless file type(meaning I don't expect it to degrade after a couple of renderings)."
I assume you are re-importing the rendered AVC files back into your timeline (new project?). If so, you will lose quality with each additional generation re-rendered - unless you are not making additional changes to the AVC files and you can use SVRT in PDR14. Just click on SVRT before produce your final output and PDR14 will analyze your timeline and avoid re-rendering if it is not necessary. If that works you lose nothing.
H.264 MP4 is "lossy" and not a good intermediate format.

You also said "I want to know if I can get them into this AVI "Cineform" file type I've seen mentioned elsewhere on this forum."

Here your idea is good. Cineform is an excellent intermediate file type. If you have GoPro Studio (free) installed, you will also have Cineform. Cineform files are a bit smaller than MagicYUV but still much larger than your MP4 files. PDR14 edits Cineform files easily on the timeline but cannot output Cineform format - so there is no easy way for you to use Cineform. (MagicYUV does the same thing as Cineform)

Your workflow thinking is 100% correct. This is why we need Cyberlink to add intermediate file types, like Cineform, as an output option in PDR14. PDR14 does import and edit Cineform as input files - but no output.

Here is an explanation from GoPro - Hope it helps

https://gopro.com/support/articles/why-does-gopro-studio-convert-file-to-the-gopro-cineform-format

Please bear with me - I'm trying hard - but may be getting old!!!

Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

Hi, Al(AIS)!

I don't think my MP4's are high def. after rendering, probably explains why no shadow file emerges, mainly because when I go to render them(after editing a few scenes together or if I'm creating an insert clip with a PiP giving two angles of view of an event) I use the default setting for the MP4 file that gives me my 25fps frame rate butkeeps the file size down.

Speaking of file sizes, what I insert here will give a clear picture(pun most definitely intended - ha-ha!) of the difference between the AVI result after using Magic+PD and the original MP4 clip as it came off the SD card of my Canon Legria camera. I think this will well and truly sum up my situation with Magic+PD. You'll see the file size of the AVI is massive at 7.87 gigabytes for just on 1 minute and 40-odd seconds, against the MP4 of just 213 megabytes for the same duration. For me, that means I'm uninstalling Magic+PD.... It just doesn't suit my requirements.

Neil.

Thanks Neil,
Tony is correct - Magic+PD is not the right solution for you. I misunderstood your original question. It is worth a try if you ever move to 4k. Got the clear picture now, thanks (pun appreciated).
Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer

Hi, Al(AIS)!

Yep, by the time I finish with my computer tonight(it's now 4.48pm, Sunday, 3rd July where I am), Magic+PD will be gone... Banished from my computer forever! Sorry to those who've put all their time and energies into developing the programme, but for me it's just not suitable. The images I put up in my earlier post bear this out.

Neil.

As of just now, I have uninstalled Magic+PD and deleted the installation app from my downloads file, plus the PDF file, for which I have no further use. So that's it! Now all I have to do is delete that AVI file to free up a valuable 7.87 gigabythes of needed hard-drive space on my 2TB external drive. A-ba-tha... a-ba-tha... a-ba-that's all folks!

With a bit of hesitation I pop in here with a short remark and 2 questions:I probably will never use 4k and MagicYUV, but at the time, I followed Ron&Co's massive work on the matter and it was admirable.

The questions at the (hopefully) end of this thread goes to Neil;

1)Have you ever considered starting a blog?

2)What kind of videos do you produce and where can they be watched?

Nina
Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

Quote: With a bit of hesitation I pop in here with a short remark and 2 questions:I probably will never use 4k and MagicYUV, but at the time, I followed Ron&Co's massive work on the matter and it was admirable.

The questions at the (hopefully) end of this thread goes to Neil;

1)Have you ever considered starting a blog?

2)What kind of videos do you produce and where can they be watched?

Nina

Hello, Nina!

In answer to your first question, no, I really haven't considered such a move, I don't think I have much interesting to say outside the to-and-fro of forum websites like this. And to your second question, I've toyed with the idea of starting a YouTube channel, or perhaps Vimeo, but never really got beyond the realm of thought. My videos are mainly personal, of family and friends, and as such they usually go straight to DVD. I also edit content on behalf af a couple of friends, and certainly would not put their content into the "public domain", as it would be on YouTube or Vimeo, without their prior consent. So I guess anything I produce is for private consumption.

Cheers!

Neil.

Sorry to churn this back up to the top of the machine, but earlier in the washing cycle...

Quote: Tony - Thanks for the info. Does that mean we are looking at low resolution shadow files in the preview window?

... and I made some bold & foolish assertions for which I must aplogise. The fairly universal lesson I've learned is...



I was very wrong, Al, & barking up the wrong tree thinking that PDR snapshots would provide evidence.

With shadow files enabled, you are looking at the shadow file in preview. NOT the original as I first asserted. Sometimes I'm not sure where I'm coming from! It would make no sense to be previewing the original files? That wouldn't make editing easier. DOH!

I retested using UHD clips, with Shadow Files enabled. Some partial screenshots from screen captures - NOT using PDR's snapshots. Preview resolution is set to Full HD.



There's a zip attached with comparative samples of exactly what is seen in preview.

Again, apologies for my error in thinking.

Cheers - Tony
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Hi,
I'm not trying to upset anyone here but the OP has left and will not respond further, as far as I'm aware. I'm locking this thread.
Dafydd