Powerdirector OpenCL VS Nvidia Cuda Quadro

RuiFigueiredo1971

Newbie Joined: Jul 26, 2013 15:12 Messages: 23 Offline

Solved by

Feb 14, 2020 15:53

My boot SSD broken up.

So I bought another one and installed windows 10 from DVD again, at the begining
windows installed Nvidia Quadro P400 driver.

Installed more SW on it and finaly Powerdirector 16 at the time. While was using initial Nvidia driver installed during windows 10 install PD16 had enable NVIDIA CUDA choice by default

This image is taken from internet to show Enabled Nvidia CUDA

After that I installed Vidcoder and by default did not have NVENC turned on, so I downloaded and installed NVIDIA Driver for Quadro P400

When I got to PD16 The only encode available was OpenCL, which I must say way MORE SLOW than Nvidia CUDA.

I was so desperate because PD16 was so fast before OpenCL unchangable option and amazed how fast Nvidia CUDA was
specialy in MULTI-TRIM (I used shadow files bafore and after).

That I bought Powerdiretor 365, whcich has PD18.

Which only has OpenCL available !!!!

Total frustration! why can't I choose ?

Nvidia CUDA over OpenCL which makes PD fly !

Specialy in MultiTrim

Even on PD18.

Please help me get my speed back.

PS Tried uninstall Nvidia downloaded drivers to get back to windows 10 initial install drivers, but no sucess either

Guys PD using Nvidia CUDA is something to behold


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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 14. 2020 15:56

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Feb 16, 2020 22:26

AFAIK CUDA is available only for old video cards that don't have the hardware NVENC. And only with older drivers that account for that.
Newer cards will switch to OpenCL. I don't know why, probably is laziness to program just one time for every GPU out there (nvidia, AMD, intel)?
Does nvidia's version of OpenCL is behind CUDA? Well... that's on them.

https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GTX-1080-OpenCL-vs-CUDA

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 16. 2020 22:33

RuiFigueiredo1971

Newbie Joined: Jul 26, 2013 15:12 Messages: 23 Offline

Feb 17, 2020 00:55

Quote AFAIK CUDA is available only for old video cards that don't have the hardware NVENC. And only with older drivers that account for that.
Newer cards will switch to OpenCL. I don't know why, probably is laziness to program just one time for every GPU out there (nvidia, AMD, intel)?
Does nvidia's version of OpenCL is behind CUDA? Well... that's on them.

https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GTX-1080-OpenCL-vs-CUDA

Thanks for gaving the time for replying.

But the issue here is PD18.

As I saidthe timeline was this:

1) My boot SSD blew up
2) Bought another one, started everything from scracth windows 10 and on
3) Installed PD16, at this time PD was using CUDA and way faster. (At this time windows was using it's first install Quadro P400 driver)
4) Had the need to install Vidcoder which now is part of MS Store.
5) Vidcoder did not have NVENC
6) Downloaded and installed from nvidia driver for Quadro P400 in order to get NVENC for vidcoder
7) Vidcoder was ok then.
8 ) PD16 switched to OpenCL
9) Thought It was for beeing old PD16, so I bought PD 365 (PD18 )
10) Yet again PD18 did not let me switch HW acceleration to Cuda instead of OpenCL

Big suggestion to Cyberlink, works way faster like I said specialy in Multitrim using Cuda instead of OpenCL.

The ones who have these type of cards should get to option to choose between OpenCL or Cuda

And it's just the entry level for Quadro, imagine those who have high end Cuda cards ?

PS I also tried to rollback nvidia driver to the one windows 10 installed by default, but no success.

Thanks again for havind the time to respond.

Kind regards.

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Feb 17, 2020 09:07

Nvidia deprecated their CUDA encoder, in favor of nvenc (hardware ASIC spearated from CUDA cores, used for example for streaming game videos).
So the only way CyberLink knows how to do hardware encoding is to use nvidia's code, because is freely included with the drivers. That is is NVENC. It comes with some licensing restrictions and that's why EULA says you can't use the PC commercially.

Also they decided to code the rest of their software for use of OpenCL. Why they did that? IDK.
On one of my older laptops PD with Quadro from Fermi generation, and older PD, it still "serves" CUDA, but I had to use older NVIDIA drivers that still have CUDA encoding.

Now some of the effects, developed separatelly, still have CUDA capabilities. You can use those instead.
Vegas Pro uses OpenCL too and nvidia also behaves badly and the reviewer discovered a "fix":

https://techgage.com/article/exploring-magix-vegas-pro-16-gpu-performance/

In my nvidia control panel I have this:


Filename	CUDA.jpg	Download
Description
Filesize	349 Kbytes
Downloaded:	5 time(s)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Feb 17. 2020 09:23

RuiFigueiredo1971

Newbie Joined: Jul 26, 2013 15:12 Messages: 23 Offline

Mar 21, 2020 08:19

Thanks for your kind attention.

Sorry for the delay !

Surely this has something to do with nvidia policy regarding entry level Quadro cards.

Because like I said after boot SSD blew up and clean install of windows using Microsoft default driver for P400 CUDA was working in PD16, after I installed Nvidia recent drivers because I needed NVENC, CUDA option was off for PD

I came to the forum again to create another thread I was making a video with 8 tracks and using files connected with onedrive
was always blue screen dumping windows.

Because I was aware my all clips were on OneDrive (backup purpose) I tried closing OneDrive and puff the windows dumps and protected errors and sequencial reboot were gone.

Kind regards

Quote Nvidia deprecated their CUDA encoder, in favor of nvenc (hardware ASIC spearated from CUDA cores, used for example for streaming game videos).
So the only way CyberLink knows how to do hardware encoding is to use nvidia's code, because is freely included with the drivers.
That is is NVENC. It comes with some licensing restrictions and that's why EULA says you can't use the PC commercially.

Also they decided to code the rest of their software for use of OpenCL. Why they did that? IDK.
On one of my older laptops PD with Quadro from Fermi generation, and older PD, it still "serves" CUDA, but I had to use older NVIDIA drivers that still have CUDA encoding.

Now some of the effects, developed separatelly, still have CUDA capabilities. You can use those instead.
Vegas Pro uses OpenCL too and nvidia also behaves badly and the reviewer discovered a "fix":

https://techgage.com/article/exploring-magix-vegas-pro-16-gpu-performance/

In my nvidia control panel I have this:

thomasye

Newbie Joined: Dec 28, 2011 20:36 Messages: 2 Offline

Apr 10, 2020 09:51

Does anyone find a good solution yet?

My laptop (precision 5520) is equpped with both a integrated Intel HD630 and discrete Nvidia Quadro M1200. Using the trick circulating on the internet, i.e., display setting --> graphic setting --> browse --> adding PDR.exe --> Option picks High performace, Powerdirector 18 seems to use the discrete nvidia card for encoding/decoding. However, my test shows that 60-second video clip need nearly 2 minutes to finish using H.265 (1280x720p), when I switch back to the integrate HD630 card, it takes 23 seconds. I have tried nvidia driver as earlier as 2017 to the latest version, no difference.

I think powerdirector 18 is not taking advantage of the computation power of nvidia quadro M1200 at all. Earlier threads mentions it might be possible to import a separate PowerDirector profile into the Nvidia Control Panel, just like for Vegas Pro. But I don't know where to find this profile.

Quote Thanks for your kind attention.

Sorry for the delay !

Surely this has something to do with nvidia policy regarding entry level Quadro cards.

Because like I said after boot SSD blew up and clean install of windows using Microsoft default driver for P400 CUDA was working in PD16, after I installed Nvidia recent drivers because I needed NVENC, CUDA option was off for PD

I came to the forum again to create another thread I was making a video with 8 tracks and using files connected with onedrive
was always blue screen dumping windows.

Because I was aware my all clips were on OneDrive (backup purpose) I tried closing OneDrive and puff the windows dumps and protected errors and sequencial reboot were gone.

Kind regards

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 10. 2020 15:57

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Apr 10, 2020 15:27

Quote Using the trick circulating on the internet, i.e., display setting --> graphic setting --> browse --> adding PDR.exe --> Option picks High performace, Powerdirector 18 seems to use the discrete nvidia card for encoding/decoding.

That "trick" is stupid. The setting in cause applies ONLY to 3D portion of the card, to the 3D cores.
The hardware decoding/encoding is done with a different circuit inside the GPU (an ASIC, callend NVENC) and that menu doesn't anything to switch that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_NVENC

The only way to trully use that on a laptop is to buy one that has in BIOS the option to deactivate the intel GPU. That's not easy to find because it adds complexity to the screen connection (a digital multiplexer).
More info about that:
https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/20/81684

That's why I say that buying a gaming laptop or a cheap workstation one for video editing is a waste of money. You are better off using one without and sticking with Intel hardware encoding (theirs is called QuickSync).

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Apr 10. 2020 15:39

RuiFigueiredo1971

Newbie Joined: Jul 26, 2013 15:12 Messages: 23 Offline

Apr 10, 2020 16:35

Besides I don't see Quadro m1200 on the NVEN, so if it's not there you ain't have it!
https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-decode-gpu-support-matrix

But as discussed before Nvidia via SW driver shuts down features of it's GPUs the distinguish High End, Middle and Entry range
which is a pitty for all of us who are not professional video editors, just afictionates!
Who don't have the need to buy high end systems because you make 3 maybe 4 videos a year.

In my case when I was using Windows P400 driver I had access to CUDA making PD way way faster, when I installed Nvidia Driver stoped having acess to Cuda, Sad.

Check Encode "Max # of concurrent sessions" colum on the link I provid above entry/mid Level cards only can have 2 encoding threads while the high end have Unrestricted.

My current Desktop is a Dell i7 6700 (does not have HEVC encoding) so I bought the Quadro P400

It's very real Nvidia limitations!

I will wait for 10Generation Intel desktop will be way better than current generation
https://newsroom.intel.com/news/10th-gen-intel-core-h-series-introduces-worlds-fastest-mobile-processor-5-3-ghz/#gs.2yrn2m
There's a comparison using PD Power Director

And I will trash my Quadro P400 on eBay for 20$

Quote

That "trick" is stupid. The setting in cause applies ONLY to 3D portion of the card, to the 3D cores.
The hardware decoding/encoding is done with a different circuit inside the GPU (an ASIC, callend NVENC) and that menu doesn't anything to switch that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_NVENC

The only way to trully use that on a laptop is to buy one that has in BIOS the option to deactivate the intel GPU. That's not easy to find because it adds complexity to the screen connection (a digital multiplexer).
More info about that:
https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/20/81684

That's why I say that buying a gaming laptop or a cheap workstation one for video editing is a waste of money. You are better off using one without and sticking with Intel hardware encoding (theirs is called QuickSync).

thomasye

Newbie Joined: Dec 28, 2011 20:36 Messages: 2 Offline

Apr 10, 2020 18:17

Thanks for the link. I carefully checked the supporting matrix, and find Quadro M1200 is listed to have 1 NVENC chip, and supports H.264. I agree with you that we are not required to have professional video card simply to process 3-4 videos a year. Given the laptop I am using (Dell Precision 5520) is reasonable good for computating task, it is really pitty that the Power Director can not make good use of the discrete graphic card.

I have even tried to download the oldest possible drive back in 2017 for quadro m1200 (release 37

, no luck.

Quote Besides I don't see Quadro m1200 on the NVEN, so if it's not there you ain't have it!
https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-decode-gpu-support-matrix

But as discussed before Nvidia via SW driver shuts down features of it's GPUs the distinguish High End, Middle and Entry range
which is a pitty for all of us who are not professional video editors, just afictionates!
Who don't have the need to buy high end systems because you make 3 maybe 4 videos a year.

In my case when I was using Windows P400 driver I had access to CUDA making PD way way faster, when I installed Nvidia Driver stoped having acess to Cuda, Sad.

Check Encode "Max # of concurrent sessions" colum on the link I provid above entry/mid Level cards only can have 2 encoding threads while the high end have Unrestricted.

My current Desktop is a Dell i7 6700 (does not have HEVC encoding) so I bought the Quadro P400

It's very real Nvidia limitations!

I will wait for 10Generation Intel desktop will be way better than current generation
https://newsroom.intel.com/news/10th-gen-intel-core-h-series-introduces-worlds-fastest-mobile-processor-5-3-ghz/#gs.2yrn2m
There's a comparison using PD Power Director

And I will trash my Quadro P400 on eBay for 20$


Filename	M1200.jpg	Download
Description
Filesize	368 Kbytes
Downloaded:	1 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 10. 2020 20:39

tomasc

Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline

Apr 10, 2020 22:02

Quote My current Desktop is a Dell i7 6700 (does not have HEVC encoding) so I bought the Quadro P400

It's very real Nvidia limitations!

I will wait for 10Generation Intel desktop will be way better than current generation
https://newsroom.intel.com/news/10th-gen-intel-core-h-series-introduces-worlds-fastest-mobile-processor-5-3-ghz/#gs.2yrn2m
There's a comparison using PD Power Director

And I will trash my Quadro P400 on eBay for 20$

The i7-6700 is a skylake cpu with Intel® HD Graphics 530: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/88196/intel-core-i7-6700-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-00-ghz.html . See the HEVC spec: https://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/4 . 4K HEVC decoding and encoding at 60p. See this Intel matrix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Graphics_Technology . The latest comet lake adds vp9 encoding.

Adding a Nvidia card may improve on the intel HEVC encoding.

RuiFigueiredo1971

Newbie Joined: Jul 26, 2013 15:12 Messages: 23 Offline

Apr 11, 2020 08:18

You missed the whole point, it's not Power Director fault here!

Quadro has lots of cards most of them GPUs are the same so they use drivers to do more or less depending on it's rom version.

I bought my Quadro P400 because my CPU i7 6700 does not have HEVC encoding, and this would give me the gate to 4k Editing.

But what I've paid for my Quadro P400 did not deserve the money.

For amateurs as far as I've seen a good Intel GPU is enough, I'll wait for 10gen or 11gen by Dell

At least Intel does not do SW tricks on their GPUs. As is comproved here in this thread with my case with windows default driver
vs Nvidia downloaded driver

Quote Thanks for the link. I carefully checked the supporting matrix, and find Quadro M1200 is listed to have 1 NVENC chip, and supports H.264. I agree with you that we are not required to have professional video card simply to process 3-4 videos a year. Given the laptop I am using (Dell Precision 5520) is reasonable good for computating task, it is really pitty that the Power Director can not make good use of the discrete graphic card.

I have even tried to download the oldest possible drive back in 2017 for quadro m1200 (release 37

, no luck.

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Apr 12, 2020 08:57

Quote
But what I've paid for my Quadro P400 did not deserve the money.

In my experience, buying a laptop for video editing it's a waste of money regardless. For the same money, you can get more processing power on a desktop form.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 12. 2020 08:58

TDK1044

Member Joined: Apr 11, 2019 12:27 Messages: 130 Offline

Apr 12, 2020 09:42

I own a decent laptop that I use for, work, games and video editing. PD18 doesn't use my GTX1060 card, but who cares? It performs very well editing and rendering projects with the i7 processor. I think that people get hung up on things like this because they can't see the forrest for the trees. My laptop handles all of my work, gaming and video editing needs really well. Nobody would look at a produced video of mine and say 'it would have been better if you'd done it using your Nvidia card.