Hi Kevin,

As usual, at the risk of being controversial, my first question would be :-

What are you going to output to? (maybe now, maybe in the future)

Only in order to make the point - if you are only going to webstream, any reasonable camera will do, - if you are going to produce 3D HD cinema quality maybe even £2000 isn't enough.

So somewhere in between is the answer. Shooting and editing at 1080p 60fps is great but if you only ever burn to a standard DVD I would contend it's a bit of a waste.

Personally,although it's probably an age thing, I don't care what my camera looks like, the smaller the better (contrary to my opinion several decades ago) - its less to carry about (and live up to).

Cheers
Adrian
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Sounds like sensible advice to me Adrian - not the least bit controversial. Well spoke!

Tony
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Hello All, I got rid of discs of any kind two years ago I have a media player which I play through a flatscreen HD TV with surround sound but I think my motives are more to do with facilities than HD playback.The reason I have to change my present camera is that there is no control over audio so when I am recording a play, during the quiet pauses the AGC on the sound turns the level right up so you hear the background noise and every little sound in the auditorium only to turn it down again when someone speaks.I think I aught to explain that although I am an amature film maker I have been a professional sound engineer all my life so getting the sound right is important to me. I have narrowed my choice down to the JVC GY-HM100U and the Panasonic HDC-HS300 the Jvc is twice the price but has things like XLR mic inputs switchable to line level where as the Panasonic has mini jacks.I normally put three mics in front of the stage run them into a mixer have one panned right one panned left and one panned to centre then feed the stereo output of the mixer into the camera.Well i'll stop rambling on now I need to decide how much to spend.

Thanks for your replies I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member

Hi Kevin,

All is clearer now, I suspect, if you can run to it, the JVC would be a really nice piece of kit.

I don't know what editing you do but someone earlier on the forum had some issues with editing 40Mbs video from a Canon 5D MkII but we never really got to the bottom of it. The JVC records up to 35Mbs QT according to the specs so maybe your choice of editing software will be important?

Cheers
Adrian Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
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Hello again,I am not so bothered about filming at the very top definition as I said it's facilities I like especially control over audio. it doesn't seem clear to me whether the JVC can be edited in PD7 it has final cut pro files and iso base media file format and although I don't use discs I will certainly be asked to provide them for other people so the very top definition and frame rate would be pointless.The Panasonic also has good control over audio and I can easily pad the output of the audio mixer to suit the mic mini jack in.If I was to bare my soul I think I am allowing the "pose" factor of the JVC influence me let face it, it looks the business and there is one thing about the Panasonic I don't like,according to one of the revues I read you have to take the battery out to plug the dc in plug in.
Honest opinion guys am I just talking myself in to The JVC because I just "fancy it" I do love my toys and if you take all the bits off it,it is only a bit bigger than a nornal camcorder

Regards

Kevin I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member

If you will primary be using the camera for recording plays I would avoid the mini jacks if you can help it. I read a post on another forum of someone who accidentally broke the end off the mini jack while it was plugged into the camera. The larger jacks are much sturdier.

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Hi Kevin -

I have no experience of the JVC camera you're looking at, but my son has a Pana HDC-HS300. That's right about the DC input. He says it's a pain. His previous Panasonic had the same silly feature.

These two cameras don't appear to be in the same league at all. I wonder how they both arrived on your short list together. On price alone, the JVC costs about 3 times more.

I know very little really, except all the things I've read recently in buying a camera for myself... The Pana was on my short list but the JVC wasn't even seriously considered. My needs are different.

It does come down to what its use will be, what features you want & how much cash you want to throw at it. Kevin - it sounds to me as if you're trying to talk yourself out of the JVC anyway

Good luck with the decision.

Cheers -

Tony


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Hello Tony,actually the opposite is true I know the JVC is extravagant when video is not my primary hobby but I have always loved owning good equipment and the truth is I am trying to talk myself "into" the JVC.
I will give you my reasoning for seeing the two camcorders as possibles,it gets back to my original point in my opinion there is a massive and obvious gap in the market the Panasonic (£914) is at the top of the consumer range and the JVC (£2200) is at the bottom of the pro range.I started out by looking for something a bit more pro than the Panasonic at say £1500 or so and there is NOTHING (well that I can find) so my logic (flawed ?) is that if you want something a little more pro than the Panasonic you have to jump all the way to the JVC.I feel that the first manufacturer that brings out a prosumer camcorder with a few pro features and connectors at say £1600 would clean up. Am I wrong? I can take it if you think so. Sorry to go on

Regards

Kevin I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member

Kevin,

I'm not quite to the sound engiineer level at all but have you tried a software approach to adjusting sound after capture? I know you can adjust sound levels on the run in PD7 and quite similarly in Pinnacle Studio Ultimate. I know there's tons of tricks in Sony Vegas, Adobe Premier, and Liquid Edition as well.

Both my new Sony HDR-SR12 and my old Panasonic PV-GS70D have microphone inputs (the Panasonic even came with a Mic) and you can mount a Mic onto the Hot Shoe on top of both. Some folks use a Sennheiser ME64/K6 or a ME67/K6 on their SR12 with no problems. The K6 uses a AA battery to provide the 48v phantom power fro the mic.

I found a thread on another forum where the user stated: "I manage to get great results with it. I do not hear any hiss. So it works. I like both mics. The ME67 is a very long shotgun and can isolate sounds very well. The ME64 is better indoors and produces good ambient sound outdoors."

Another user on a separate forum said: "I have tried the Sennheiser MKH-416 through the Beachtek in to the SR12 and it is so awesome." A response said "Yes indeed the Sennheiser MKH-416 is a bit of a legend as far as mics go. Its used widely in the professional field and even movies etc. A long-lived shotgun mic that professionals rely upon."

(Maybe you've already got one on these?)

I think the Sony is a great consumer camera and perhaps a little less pricey. Perhaps you should add it to the list. Regards,

Jim

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I agree Jim -

Though I'm new to this myself, I read mountains of reviews and spoke to dozens of people (ones who weren't trying to sell me things) and the Sony HDR-SR12 stayed on my short list right till the end, when I finally decided on internal flash memory rather than HDD.


I would definitely consider that one over the Pana... but neither compares to the JVC.

Cheers -

Tony
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Well thanks to you all for your interest and comments, we all have our different needs opinions and biases and of course only I can decide what to buy,I thought someone might say "oh have you looked at the Acme IM-G00D it does all you want and it's £1600" but that camera does not exist and I still maintain there is a hole in the market

Thanks again


Kevin I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member

Hi Kevin,

That hole in the market you refer to, was filled by a friend of mine who sought out, found, and purchased a "used" pro Sony camera in mint condition (latest version available at the time), for about 60% of it’s list price, from a pro videographer who's business had been beset with some economic difficulties, forcing the videographer to liquidate some of his recently acquired backup video cameras, tripods, and other misc equipment.

Yes, it was a matter of my friend being lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time, but perhaps it's an option that you might want to investigate as well.
By the way, my friend has been using that camera almost daily for nearly 2 years now with absolutely no problems.

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Jim,

Kevin described the situation of "quiet" times in between dialogue and such causing the AGC to increase the audio level in the camera, which brings along with it all sorts of potentially unwanted and distracting "noise".

Yes, it's possible to try to bring that level back down in post but you cant always do that precisely and cleanly so that background ambience "matches". It's much better to be able to manually set your audio level in the cam where you want it.

I'm going to be looking long and hard at the Panasonic GH1 and the one shortcoming I think I see is lack of manual audio level control in the camera. It does have stereo mic input for external mics and mixer input.

Philip Bloom's test videos with it are absolutely stunning.