Just a guess, but if you are adding the fade to just one track it is probably shortening that track due to the fade causing a slight overlap in the two clips. It is not adjusting other tracks to match. Possibly change the type of fade uaed, or add a freeze frame the length of the overlap so take the track back to the original length. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM

Hi,

I think that it would be useful to post a screenshot or two of your timeline set up with the sub-projects inserted, to enable members to see exactly what is happening when you add the fades etc.

Cheers
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Well, I figured out a workaround - I rendered each sub-project as a seperate clip, then built the master project using those clips.

However, in doing this I discovered what was causing the issue, and it's not restricted to using sub-projects.

Rather, as James suggested, the issue is due to inserting fades between clips on one track, however, the problem isn't that that track becomes shorter and the others aren't adjusted, it's that the other tracks and not adjusted when then modifying the fade to 'cross' instead of 'overlap'.

This can be easily demonstrated using the sample media files:

1. Create a new project.
2. Drop Kite Surfing.wmv on to the timeline, in track 1.
3. Drop a second copy of Kite Surfing.wmv on to the timeline, in track 1, imediately after the first.
4. Drop balloon.jpg on to the timeline in track 2, aligned with the end of the second copy of the Kite Surfing clip.
5. Insert an fade transition between the two clips.
6. Modify the transition to be cross, rather than overlap.

(See attachments showing the last 3 steps)

Now, I could set fades to default to cross, rather than overlap, but then the transition on affects the video and not the audio (but I want it to apply to both).

I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but I can't find any way to stop this from happening.

What am I missing?

Can anyone help me with this?

As I said in my last post (directly above this one), the issue is slightly different than I first thought, and I’m sure I’m just missing something obvious, due to my lack of experience with the software.

But I have looked and I cannot find any way to ‘lock’ the synchronisation of clips between different tracks in the timeline.

Is there a way to do this? Some kind of marker? Or reference point?

I think what you are seeing is entirely predictable, normal and by design.

Having once recognised and understood how PDR works you need to complete your editing keeping that in mind and first apply the fades, whether cross or overlap and only then add items to the additional timelines.

I do not believe this is intended behaviour for two reasons:

1. When you insert an Overlap transition PD automatically moves all clips, on all tracks, forward on the timeline so that they remain properly synced. It is only when you then modify the transition to Cross that the tracks become unsynched.


2. This behaviour makes Insert Project all but useless for anything but the simplest of projects. As soon as you insert a project containing multiple tracks, PiP, overlays, music, other audio, or subtitles, anything else beyond a single track, you cannot add an Overlap transition that you then change to Cross, because if you do everything else that you’ve carefully synchronised then becomes out of sync with the track that you inserted the transition on.

Does any of that really sound like intended behaviour?

Take your example of kitesurfing.wmv x 2 on the first timeline.

Add an image on the second timeline and align it with then end of the second kitesurfing.wmv.

Now insert a fade between the two .wmv's and having done that double click on the fade transition. You now have an option to change the transition from overlap to cross or vice versa (dependant on what you default is). Click on the one that is not your default.

Has the alignment between the image on the second timeline and the end of the .wmv changed? If it has you are seeing what I see. If you do not then what you say would make sense and my version of PDR and yours work differently.

Yes, the alignment changes.

But when you insert the transition it changes on all tracks. Whereas when you modify the transition style it changes on that track only!

That is the problem!

Follow the steps in my example, above, to see what I mean. The important part is add an image on the second track, aligned with end of the second clip - that makes it really clear what is happening.

I cannot believe this is intended behaviour, so it’s either a bug (but then why has it not been seen before?), or there is some way, that I’m just missing, to prevent this from happening.

My dsefault transition type is set to "Cross". That 'butt ends' clips/transitions and thus causes no change in the track length ergo causes no change in relative positions between tracks.

An overlap transition does cause the change in relative positions of items on different timelines. As I said, I find it completely predictable.

I think you are missing a key part of the picture, Longedge.

When I insert a transition it behaves as I would expect it to.

It is when I modify the transition from Overlap to Cross that the problem occurs.

If you have not done that you will not see the problem.

And, I need the transition to apply to both the audio and the video so cannot simply change the default behaviour because then it only applies to the video.

"I think you are missing a key part of the picture, Longedge. "

I think not but don't see any point in labouring the issue any further .

I owe you an apology Scorpion0x17 .

You were right. I tried changing my default transition to overlap and there is an inconsistency of behaviour. If, with that setting you apply a transition after placing an item on another timeline, both timelines are adjusted but if you switch back to cross over then the adjustment is not undone. All the more important to apply transitions first.

Quote I owe you an apology Scorpion0x17 .

No problem. I knew what I was seeing just really didn't make sense.

Quote You were right. I tried changing my default transition to overlap and there is an inconsistency of behaviour. If, with that setting you apply a transition after placing an item on another timeline, both timelines are adjusted but if you switch back to cross over then the adjustment is not undone. All the more important to apply transitions first.

Yeah, which is fine when working on single monolithic projects, but if you are, like I was, splitting the task up in to smaller, more manageable, sub-projects, which you then bring together in a master project and add transitions to, then it becomes a real pain.

It seems that the easiest way to avoid the problem is to change your default transition type to cross and so avoid any 'shuffling around' of items on the timeline/s.

Quote It seems that the easiest way to avoid the problem is to change your default transition type to cross and so avoid any 'shuffling around' of items on the timeline/s.

But then the transitions only apply to the video, and I need them to apply to both video and audio, plus I prefer cross fade transitions.