Availability of UHD/4K Camcorders with High Frame Rates

jmone

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline

Solved by

Sep 21, 2017 18:35

I'm still waiting to move to a 4K Camcorder but I don't want to lose 50/60fps either. Looks like there are now a couple of options in the "Prosumer" range but they are still big, heavy, and expensive. Have I missed any others?

- Canon Vixia GX10 : This thing is 2.5x the size and weight of my trusty pana HS700

- Panasonic Lumux DC-GH5 : In a DSLR Body and I'm not sure how such a physical format would work as a camcorder including picking up lens noise with zooming etc. It's odd that the DLSR side of Panasonic has brought out a 4k/50p device before the Camcorder side

Thanks

Nathan

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 21. 2017 18:41

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

PepsiMan

Senior Contributor Location: Clarksville, TN Joined: Dec 29, 2010 01:20 Messages: 1054 Offline

Sep 22, 2017 13:57

Sony.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/0515562477/sony-packed-serious-phase-detect-af-into-these-new-4k-palm-style-camcorders

panny's gh5 is your best bet; however, see this videos...

iPhonedo Panasonic GH5 — The Review - Why I Returned It [4K 60]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU

happy happy joy joy

PepsiMan

'garbage in garbage out' 'no bridge too far'

Yashica Electro 8 LD-6 Super 8mm
Asrock TaiChi X470, AMD R7 2700X, W7P 64, MSI GTX1060 6GB, Corsair 16GB/RAM
Dell XPS L702X i7-2860QM, W7P / W10P 64, Intel HD3000/nVidia GT 550M 1GB, Micron 16GB/RAM
Samsung Galaxy Note3/NX1

Eugen157

Senior Contributor Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 662 Offline

Sep 23, 2017 17:11

Quote Sony.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/0515562477/sony-packed-serious-phase-detect-af-into-these-new-4k-palm-style-camcorders

panny's gh5 is your best bet; however, see this videos...

iPhonedo Panasonic GH5 — The Review - Why I Returned It [4K 60]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD9C3C2koU

happy happy joy joy

PepsiMan

'garbage in garbage out'

Nathan,

I found this German website very informative, it is in English too.

camcorder-test.slashcam.com

I do not think that you have much of a choice.

Wish they had spell check and paste!!!!

Canon XF400/405 ? 1" sensor

Eugene

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Sep 23. 2017 17:59

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A

PepsiMan

Senior Contributor Location: Clarksville, TN Joined: Dec 29, 2010 01:20 Messages: 1054 Offline

Sep 24, 2017 21:52

another panny.

Panasonic HC-X1!

happy happy joy joy

PepsiMan

'garbage in garbage out' 'no bridge too far'

Yashica Electro 8 LD-6 Super 8mm
Asrock TaiChi X470, AMD R7 2700X, W7P 64, MSI GTX1060 6GB, Corsair 16GB/RAM
Dell XPS L702X i7-2860QM, W7P / W10P 64, Intel HD3000/nVidia GT 550M 1GB, Micron 16GB/RAM
Samsung Galaxy Note3/NX1

Hamltnblue

Newbie Joined: Oct 11, 2015 09:52 Messages: 5 Offline

Oct 04, 2017 18:17

Quote I'm still waiting to move to a 4K Camcorder but I don't want to lose 50/60fps either. Looks like there are now a couple of options in the "Prosumer" range but they are still big, heavy, and expensive. Have I missed any others?

- Canon Vixia GX10 : This thing is 2.5x the size and weight of my trusty pana HS700

- Panasonic Lumux DC-GH5 : In a DSLR Body and I'm not sure how such a physical format would work as a camcorder including picking up lens noise with zooming etc. It's odd that the DLSR side of Panasonic has brought out a 4k/50p device before the Camcorder side

Thanks

Nathan

The gopro hero 6 has 4k 60fps as well

jmone

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline

Oct 05, 2017 04:06

Yeah thats the rub - either a big pro unit or a smartphone/go pro style devices, nothing inbetween. Where are the Camcorder formats....

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Hamltnblue

Newbie Joined: Oct 11, 2015 09:52 Messages: 5 Offline

Oct 05, 2017 15:28

Quote Yeah thats the rub - either a big pro unit or a smartphone/go pro style devices, nothing inbetween. Where are the Camcorder formats....

Go to the bestbuy website. You might find something there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 05. 2017 15:29

jmone

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline

Mar 03, 2018 00:42

Quote Yeah thats the rub - either a big pro unit or a smartphone/go pro style devices, nothing inbetween. Where are the Camcorder formats....

So, after years of waiting..... I bought both the:

Canon XF400 (150Mb/s AVC)

GoPro Hero 6 (67Mb/s HEVC)

I've got plenty to learn about getting the best out of both..... and some gym work to cart around the XF400, but at least I've now got options for UHD at 50/60fps.

Footage for both works fine in PD, with the excpetion of the Multi Stream Mono PCM in the MP4 container from the XF400 (as PD only exposes one Audio Stream). I built a little fix posted in Tool: Converting Videos with Multi Mono to Stereo Tracks prior to editing in PD.

Thanks
Nathan PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Eugen157

Senior Contributor Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 662 Offline

Mar 03, 2018 03:26

Congratulations!

Any methods for UHD burning?

I hope DVDFAB UHD Creator will keept its promise and that sooner than later.

Then there is TSM2UHD, but it does not work with my 265 HEVC 4K produced by PD. Cannot get TsMuxer to complete it's job in the first step.

Both are a work in progress.

These are the first feeble attempts that I know about.

Very impressive camcorder, the XF400

Eugene. 73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A

jmone

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline

Mar 03, 2018 15:53

Quote Congratulations!

Any methods for UHD burning?

I hope DVDFAB UHD Creator will keept its promise and that sooner than later.

Then there is TSM2UHD, but it does not work with my 265 HEVC 4K produced by PD. Cannot get TsMuxer to complete it's job in the first step.

Both are a work in progress.

These are the first feeble attempts that I know about.

Very impressive camcorder, the XF400

Eugene.

In poking around the UHD Burning, no luck so far but I've tried:

PD16 : I've found where PD keeps the Disc Burning profiles and can change the settings.... But so far I can not get PD to create 3840x2160 files using the Disc Authoring Menu - If anyone else wants to have a play you will need a DB Lite Broswer/Editor and have a play with this file (make sure you take a backup first) - C:\Program Files\CyberLink\PowerDirector16\runtime\AuthorPage\Profile.db . I've also had a look through the MoveProduction.dll but it looks like the profiles are all hard coded and ignores the resolution settings in Profile.db - you can bump the encoding rate but not change the resolution or select HEVC encoding

I've sent a msg off to pegasys as it looks like their TMPGEnc Authoring Works is getting ready to support this (but nothing official) : If I can not mod PD I'll see if this one is more.... flexible!

DVDFAB UHD Creator is (so far) unuasable

tsMuxer etc really needs an update to be useful (and that may never happen)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 03. 2018 20:31

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

jmone

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline

Mar 05, 2018 05:44

FYI - Response from TMPG on UHD BD Authoring:

-------------------------

Dear Nathan, thank you for your email.

We already sent this to the user's wish list.
At the moment we do not have any information related, but if something comes out, we will let you know via the web site. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Eugen157

Senior Contributor Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 662 Offline

Mar 05, 2018 13:22

In this mornings mail I got the samw exactly worded answer as well. If only more people asked for UHD authoring and burning, most are resigned that it may not happen.

If CL made this a self supporting program (as they have in the past), then it could be used with ANY OTHER EDITING PROGRAM !!!!!

And as a self supporting program it could be released at ANY TIME !!!

And I would gladly pay $$$$ for it!

So $%(%@! obvious!

That XF400 should last you a long long time as will my FDR AX100

Eugene

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Mar 05. 2018 13:43

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A

jmone

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline

Mar 05, 2018 18:14

FYI - I also read over at the Adobe forums that they have dropped BD Authoring all together in their latest release of Essentials. Seems a few are talking about coming over to PD. Someone is going to end up filling the demand. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG