I would consider this. You already know a laptop is a compromise in computing power.

Why not invest in a high-powered desktop like an i7, instead. Put it in a closet somewhere. Use your laptop to remote connect to the desktop (Use windows XP Remote Desktop software already on your computer).

So, basically, you are doing all the processing work on the big, powerful computer that's in the closet, and you still have all the benefits of roaming around with your laptop, not to mention the way more powerful computing power the desktop gives you without remortgaging the house. Win8 64-bit Pro Retail
Intel i7-4770
16GB DDR3 1600 8-8-8-24
MSI Z87-G45 Motherboard
ASUS GTX 660 Direct CU II OC 2GB GPU
1 TB RAID 1 (mirrored) Drive Array
Several scratch drives for video, TMP, pagefile.

Quote: Why not invest in a high-powered desktop like an i7, instead. Put it in a closet somewhere. Use your laptop to remote connect to the desktop (Use windows XP Remote Desktop software already on your computer).

Thanks for the suggestion but I would think that would just move the bottleneck to the network connection. Indeed, I just tried to run PowerDirector remotely and before I even got to loading a file I received a message:

"PowerDirector does not support some important features when working in the Remote Desktop environment"

I am not sure what those missing features are but I would still be interested to know whether it's even feasible to edit HD content on a suitably powered laptop. I dismissed the startup warning and the display of even standard video was jumpy (I have a 130Mb network connection).

We need a new laptop anyway (for other reasons) and having to buy a desktop and a laptop would be overkill for us.

Thanks again.

Mark

I guess your going to be OK if you get a laptop with a GPU that can do the rendering/encoding for you. My Desktop has an NVidea 8800GT and with CUDA enabled I can render a little faster than realtime. e.g. producing 30 mins of HD video takes around 25 minutes. I have a quad core so of course that helps a little, but most of the work is being done in the GPU.

If I don't use GPU rendering, then it takes around 3.5 x real time e.g. 30 mins of HD footage takes 105 minutes to produce.

Unfortunately not many laptops come with suitable GPUs, but if you can find one then this might be the way to go. Intel Quad Core, NV 8800GT, Vista (32bit), Canon Powershot TX1. Editing 1280x720 (p) NTSC 30 fps motion jpeg in .avi container....to AVCHD DVDs for Blu Ray playback

Quote: Unfortunately not many laptops come with suitable GPUs, but if you can find one then this might be the way to go.

Thank you, David. Although I am technically pretty comfortable, I don't have any particular experience/awareness of what might be an appropriate GPU. Any pointers as to the brands/versions I might look for?

Also, I'd be interested to know whether anyone else here is activel using a laptop today that supports real time (or close to real time) rendering of HD content. I'm still trying to work out whether this is a bit if a pipedream to me or whether it's feasible with today's laptops.

Thanks again.

Mark

Anything is feasible, how much cabbage ya' have? $1,200?
C,mon guys/gals, you can find the machine! How about a little project?
Laptops that can handle it for under $1,000. Maybe I'LL buy one.
It's got to have the right connections, need a webcam? Is refurbished ok?
Good thread, no? HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

Quote: Anything is feasible, how much cabbage ya' have? $1,200?
C,mon guys/gals, you can find the machine! How about a little project?
Laptops that can handle it for under $1,000. Maybe I'LL buy one.
It's got to have the right connections, need a webcam? Is refurbished ok?
Good thread, no?

Not entirely sure how much of this is in jest but I'll bite since I started the thread... :

I want a laptop I can use for general use around the house, integrated wireless (802.11n preferably), no need for a web cam, want brand new/full warranty, plenty of disk space (300GB?), at least 3GB RAM (this is primarily driven by having a good amount for the HD editing), at least 17" screen (probably bigger) and Vista / Windows 7 capable. I also want a "trusted" manufacturer (this almost gets religious, regretfully, but for me that is Dell, HP, maybe Lenovo and not Sony or Toshiba - but let's not rathole on that!). And I want all this for $1,200 delivered.

What I don't yet know is what connections I'd need (HDMI, right?) and where to start in looking for a GPU.

Oh, and this all needs to be "quick", which let's say means rendoring HD content in real (or near real) time :

Dreaming?

Thanks.

Mark

Hi Mark,

I think what Barry is trying to tell you is that you are dreaming if you think you can obtain a laptop capable of rendering HD for $1200.

For HD rendering you need POWER and that doesn't come cheap.

As a minimum you would need an Intel Core2 T9500 2.6 GHz, preferably go for an Intel Core2 Extreme Processor X9000 2.8 GHz. or wait until the Quads become available in laptops

A minimum 512 Mb Nvidia graphics card, 4GB of Ram and say 500GB HHD

Whats this going to cost you? well start from basics of $3000 and work up from there say around $4000 will get you going, and remember, whatever you buy will be superseded within weeks of purchase.

I have a top of the range Dell XPS laptop (it's 18 months old now) and it struggles with HD rendering, normally grinding to a halt.

So, if you can find one for $1200 post on the forum so that we can all buy one.

Good luck

Robert Intel i7 930, 16GB ram, Radeon HD 5770 1Gb,Ver. 14.12 Win7 64 bit
Intel i7 7700 HQ, 16 GB ram Nvidia GTX 1050Ti 4GB dual drives 1 TB SSD + 1 TB HDD Win 10

PDtoots

Yo, Ozzy!
Not jesting. There is gonna be laptops sittin' on the shelves all over the world. I heard there is a depression.
Is there different needs for different HD outputs?
Some internet hunting, ok maybe not $1000, but let's see what people find. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

I did some very quick button pushing on Dell's site (have not fine tuned yet in any way yet) and came in around $2,200 for...

Core 2 Duo T9500 2.6 Ghz
4GM Ram
512MB NVidia GeForce 8700M
320GB Disk

Admittedly this was with a pokey 15" screen.

Still to slow for any HD editing?

Thanks.

Mark

http://www.buy.com/prod/acer-aspire-5920-6329-notebook-intel-centrino-duo-core-2-duo-t9300-2/q/loc/101/207469222.html

You need to compromise a bit. This is just another 15", but I'll bet if you look around... HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

Quote: http://www.buy.com/prod/acer-aspire-5920-6329-notebook-intel-centrino-duo-core-2-duo-t9300-2/q/loc/101/207469222.html

You need to compromise a bit. This is just another 15", but I'll bet if you look around...

Thanks. So, is the collective sense that this sort of laptop would generally do the trick? If so, we're down to about $1450. Frankly, if I got some confidence that this is an effective specification for HD editing then I think we're in the ballpark (I don't think I have ever bought consumer electronics that ended up being within my original "budget" ).

Looking promising and a lot better than $3,000 - $4,000, assuming it will do the job.

Thanks.

Mark

Well, it's really just an example that there ARE deals out there. Maybe it's best you find a laptop you think will do the job, then put it on the forum and get more input. It's a machine you'll have for 4-5 years maybe.
I'm not the expert, but there are others here. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

Hi Mark & Barry,

Have just carried out an HD editing test, camera Sanyo Xacti HD1010
resolution used, HD-HR 1280x720 60fps HR.

My computer Dell XPS 1710, Intel Core 2 T7400 2.16 GHz, 2 Gb ram, Nvidia GeForce Go 7900 GS.

Results
Using Standard Definition
When editing, PDR.exe uses an average 20% CPU increasing up to 50% when passing through a transition. PDRHanuman.exe uses an average of 15% of CPU, therefore no problems are encountered.

Using High Definition
When editing PDR.exe uses an average of 50% of CPU increasing to 99% when passing through a transition. PDRHanuman.exe uses an average of 15% of CPU. PDR7 CRASHES when a transition is encountered

This confirms that a as an absolute minimum a Core 2 2.5 GHz is
required for HD editing.

The Acer which Barry has referred to may just meet the minimum requirements.

For full 1920X1080 HD editing the Acer probably would not be suitable

Robert Intel i7 930, 16GB ram, Radeon HD 5770 1Gb,Ver. 14.12 Win7 64 bit
Intel i7 7700 HQ, 16 GB ram Nvidia GTX 1050Ti 4GB dual drives 1 TB SSD + 1 TB HDD Win 10

PDtoots

See that! Good work RJ.
That is a VERY GOOD bit of info. I'll keep this thread in mind.
OK, so Mark, just don't rush if you don't need to, you'll spend more than you planned, but less than you might have a couple of months ago. This is very good for those of us who need to make the HD move. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

Hi Barry,

Have carried out the same tests, this time using a resolution of HD-SHQ 1280x720 30fps SHQ.

PD7 can now edit HD-SHQ, with PDR.exe using an average of 40% CPU, increasing to 70% when a transition is encountered.

Next stage is to take more video and see what happens when I try to render.

Sanyo recommend a core 2 2.4 Gb as the minimum requirement.

Will keep you posted on rendering times

Robert Intel i7 930, 16GB ram, Radeon HD 5770 1Gb,Ver. 14.12 Win7 64 bit
Intel i7 7700 HQ, 16 GB ram Nvidia GTX 1050Ti 4GB dual drives 1 TB SSD + 1 TB HDD Win 10

PDtoots

RobertJ is handing you some of the most accurate info you will find. I think we are assuming all you will be trying to edit is HDV (1440x1080) and the very fastest dual core processor you can make yourself afford will be necessary.

The laptop is not a very good idea for this as very few come with a decent graphics card. Had you decided to step into the HD world a year or year and a half ago, you could have reasonably expected to kind of get by with a laptop, but recent developments pointing the way things will go in the future would make me doubt the wisdom of that approach.

HDV (tape based format) may or may not persist in popularity on the market for a few to 5 or 7 more years, or it may begin a serious decline in 1-3 years. The successor, high definition recorded to flash memory (look at the Panasononic HMC-150 for prosumer and the Canon HF series for consumer grade to show where things are going) requires for most of us a quad core processor running at 2.66Ghz bare minimum (I'm editing AVCHD on a quad core at 2.4Ghz right now and it's moaning and wheezing). I don't see this capability coupled with decent graphics cards in laptops.

Right now the folks with quad core 2.8 or 3Ghz processors, 4GB RAM, and graphics cards with 512MB to 1GB on board are in fairly good shape to edit AVCHD.

If you are going to stick with HDV editing and insist on laptop form factor, I would advise the fastest Intel Core2 dual core you can find. My son works for Dell and for awhile they quit using AMD processors because they felt those were not living up to what it took. I had an HP with AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual core 5000+ processor that turned out to be a real "dog". I blamed it on Vista but Vista on my Dell quad core is doing OK.

So in my opinion, editing HD on even the fastest laptops does not represent a long term solution.

Hi Guys,

Lots of great info coming up here, so I'll add my bit.

As I've posted before (somewhere!) for most of us we work in a 'compromised' environment, where only some of us , some of the time can kit up with the best camera(s), the best editing suite and the best output kit. So, whatever is the current or planned 'lowest common denominator' will determine the performance and resources put into the rest of the kit.

If you shoot in 1080i at 25Mbps and if you want to show in 1080i (2 big ifs) even the best laptop will probably fall over. If you shoot in AVCHD (a recording format not ideal for editing as most editing suites are finding) you really need BIG power, if you shoot in MPEG4/H264 it's a bit easier.

If you can only show in 720, you end up downsizing your hard won and expensively produced 1080 video. Many people are very hard pushed to see any difference up to say 40", depending on other issues such as contrast, movement etc.

Most 1080 video is 1080i only the latest consumer cameras (and the professional ones) shoot in 1080p. Most 1080i video when edited and compressed suffers from more artifacts that 720p (progressive is better in this regard than interlaced).

I've used the Sanyo HD1000 and the 1010. I shoot at 720p because I can't tell the difference on my output kit, my editing kit doesn't like playing back 1080 (>2m pixels), it does play 720 (<1m pixels) and I can use my laptop (T2050 1.6 2Gb ram onboard intel graphics) in the field (say when diving - not literally, only my cameras drown when diving!) and PD6 edits 720p OK if I'm patient.

I suppose, Mark, what I'm saying is get the best, if you can and want to afford it, but check what you really 'need', anything over that is 'investing in the future' (positive spin) or 'a boy's toy' (negative spin).

Having said all that, I'd really like 32" triple monitors, dual quad core with crossfire graph.....
Sorry dreaming ....again

Cheers
Adrian


Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

Mark,

I have gone down the path you are contemplating...I ended up spending over $ 3,000....However, with your budget I would suggest..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220418

http://www.provantage.com/asus-g71g-q1~7ASUL0EM.htm

http://www.provantage.com/asus-g71v-q1~7ASU90NQ.htm

Good luck....

Maybe I can save some cash by hanging around a financial institute and wait for an auction...or hope a broker forgets his laptop when he/she jumps off the ledge. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT