Hi, Zorikh!

If you have the ability to choose DVD-SP in the "Create Disc" section of PD13, then that is the setting you'll likely need for burning your master disc. With your production timing in at 2 hours, 48 minutes, 44 seconds, then you'll definitely need a dual-layer(DVD9) blank to carry content of such length. In my own experience of an earlier version of Power Director, I could fit up to 2 hours and 30 minutes on a single-layer disc, burning at DVD-SP but the time of your production exceeds this, hence the need for a dual-layer disc.

You're intending to make your production into a marketable disc, Diskmakers tell you, you should break it into two parts and put it on two dual-layer disks. Clearly they've never seen any of the "Harry Potter" movie series. Several of these had running times well over the time your movie runs, yet they contain the "feature movie" on one dual-layer disc. There were extra discs in each of those "Harry Potter" DVD packs, but in each case the extra disc carried "peripheral" content(interviews with the stars, directors, writer[J.K Rowling], special effects people, etc). The movie itself was all on one disc, so you shouldn't be put off by what "Diskmakers" are telling you. There are a great number of feature movies with running times closer to three hours issued on one dual-layer disc per package. You could(possibly), again using a dual-layer disc, burn in DVD-HQ but there may be a need, somehow to reduce the file size to within the 8.5 GB limits of a DVD9 Dual-Layer disc. Your production, as it stands, weighs in at a hefty 11.414 GB(Your figure was simply converted to gigabytes by substituting a decimal point for the comma). If you have software to do this compression, it would be a good idea to apply it before you burn your master disc.

Hope the above info is of some help.

Cheers!

Neil.

Thanks! Does anyone know what software will reduce an 11.5 GB video file to less than 8.5 GB? Zorikh

If I understand correctly, compression will impact quality of the videos appearance (if not, please correct me folks). Also, I'm not sure about this but going from 11.5 GB to 8.5 is a pretty significant amount of compression that will take place.

Another point you might like to inquire about is - does the this 8.5 GB disc choice, Neil refers to, limit the overall video's maximum resolution capability? I know the 'standard' DVD disc limits the resolution to a lower level (I can't remember it right at the moment) I think down to 480 - Does the 8.5 disc do something similar? If so what lower level of resolution does it limit your production to and is that acceptable to you?

I've always read in here - Produce or Burn your disc with the same specs it was 'shot' at. Your source clips are at 1280x72030p - so you want to burn your discs at that same spec to get the maximum level of video quality. Whatever disc has that capability is the disc you want to use to burn to obviously - it just also needs to be a large enough capacity to put the entire 11.5GB - or whatever the size it turns out to be - on to that disc.

I know Blu-ray discs capacities are 25 and 50GB but that is a different format than the 1280x720 you shot with. So I do not think you want to go that route.

CS PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive

Thanks for your reply!

Hmmm...you are asking questions to which I am seeking the answer...

In some of my own searching i have found something about "setting bitrates." does anyone know more about this? Is it a thing that can work in this instance? Zorikh

I am just really starting to read and understand a little more about Bit Rates. If you choose a high bit rate during or before you produce or burn your final output project, I am understanding that this will produce large files but the video quality may be better as a result of using them in the encoding (rendering) process. But just how big a file are you willing to work with -? only you can answer - and you do seem to have an issue with file size from the original post(OP).

Tell you what - google is your friend - I've read a little about bit rates - so google them and you'll have more than enough to read.

I'm not sure that the higher video quality using higher bit rates in the rendering process will be noticeable since you are only working with 1280x720/30p source video clips. Perhaps someone can correct me on this but 1280-720/30p and this is not that high of a resolution to begin with.

I am NOT an expert in this matter but look forward to any that do comment to learn more.

CS PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive

CS is right about bit rates. Your claimed MPEG-2, 1280x720/30p (20 Mbps) at 11.414 GB size can be reduced to 8.5 GB by setting the 20 Mbps bitrate down to 8.5/11.414 x 20 = 14.89 Mbps by creating a custom profile. This does not take into account the menu and chapters that will be created and the bitrate needs to be reduced further.

I don’t think that it is going to help you achieve your goal. No camera I know create those particular file size. I believe that the produced file of 11.414 GB is the size you chose in PD14 produced settings using that particular mpeg-2 profile. That is how you know that it is 2 hr 48 min long at 20 Mbps. Am I right here?

That file will have to be re-encoded again if you decide to create a standard 720x480 DVD or a 1280x720/60p standard 25 GB Blu-ray.

For further help we need to know the source file properties and why you want to stay with dvd and mpeg-2. SmartFit will create the dvd you want on a dvd dual layer disc. Create this disc first and let us know if the quality is satisfactory to you.

Let us know if this helps.

Quote: CS is right about bit rates. Your claimed MPEG-2, 1280x720/30p (20 Mbps) at 11.414 GB size can be reduced to 8.5 GB by setting the 20 Mbps bitrate down to 8.5/11.414 x 20 = 14.89 Mbps by creating a custom profile. This does not take into account the menu and chapters that will be created and the bitrate needs to be reduced further.

I don’t think that it is going to help you achieve your goal. No camera I know create those particular file size. I believe that the produced file of 11.414 GB is the size you chose in PD14 produced settings using that particular mpeg-2 profile. That is how you know that it is 2 hr 48 min long at 20 Mbps. Am I right here?

I'd doubt it, some strange logic going on there and the user may not know what they really have. If one really has 2hr 48min of action video at an average bit rate of 20Mbps as posted the video file needs to be approx (20/8*168*60)~25GB, not 11.414GB as posted. It could be that they have significant regions of non video, like a slide show, pics, or the like in the creation. Regardless one can't calculate a new avg bitrate of 14.89 Mbps based on the file size as the 11.414GB size does not represent an avg bit rate of 20 Mbps to ratio from.

To demonstrate the point, attached is a 2hr 48 min 44 sec project of basic video at a avg bitrate of ~20Mbps created from PD and the file size is 22.93GB, very close to the simple calc as it should be if a real ~20Mbps avg bitrate is maintained.

The user needs to supply more details of what they really have and the end distribution goal for a valid answer. Or, as tomasc suggested, simply try SmartFit or even a few other options with what they desire as an end distribution media and see if they are happy with the quality.

Jeff

Quote: Thanks! Does anyone know what software will reduce an 11.5 GB video file to less than 8.5 GB?

Hello, Zorikh!

As I suggested to burn the master disc at DVD-SP(if PD13 permits that setting), I've been looking at the other posts and thinking about how you can reduce the overall file size from the current 11.414 GB down to one that will fit within the 8.5 GB limits of a dual-layer DVD. Though before I say it, I should pre-warn you that the image quality will degrade, but only marginally. Pull your completed 2hr, 48-odd minute video onto the timeline and render(produce) it to DVD-SP 3mb/sec. This should reduce the file size and you may only need to do it once(rename the file as well, before you attempt this, so you know at a glance which one's which).

Hope that suggestion may help.

Cheers!

Neil.

But they should expect the resulting video quality/appearance may degrage with compressing it down some like they want to do correct?

Whether they can actually see that degradation, that's up to them to decide if that is acceptable. But going from 11 some GB to 8.5GB ... or going from the 20Mbps frame rate down to whatever SmartFit takes it down to - there very likely will be some loss in visual quality of the video content correct? As I said, might be insignificant or more noticeable but they'll have to be the judge on if it's acceptable.

I'm not trying to make broad statements as if I'm the expert - but I hope additional comment might educate me on this.

CS PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive

Without going into great detail,

You can put about 2 hours of 720x480/576 HQ quality (HQ is about 8 Mbps) on a Double Layer DVD video disk.

You can put about 1 hour of 720x480/576 HQ video on a Single layer DVD Video disk.

If you reduce the bitrate (Smart Fit), you can put more time on a DVD at reduced quality.

I would think that putting nearly 3 hours on a Double Layer DVD would reduce the quality considerably.

EDIT: This is a chart on Recording time on a Single Layer disk from a DVD/VHS recorder. The recorder only does Single layer disks.

. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Quote: But they should expect the resulting video quality/appearance may degrage with compressing it down some like they want to do correct?

Whether they can actually see that degradation, that's up to them to decide if that is acceptable. But going from 11 some GB to 8.5GB ... or going from the 20Mbps frame rate down to whatever SmartFit takes it down to - there very likely will be some loss in visual quality of the video content correct? As I said, might be insignificant or more noticeable but they'll have to be the judge on if it's acceptable.

I'm not trying to make broad statements as if I'm the expert - but I hope additional comment might educate me on this.

CS

Hi, CS!

Yeah, there would be a dregree of degradation, but not so severe as to make the video unwatchable! We are, of course dealing with digital video here, after all. I remember the results when you dubbed a VHS tape to another and the resultant quality loss that ensued, if you took that copy and dubbed from it the quality loss was even greater, but we're talking here about, perhaps one or two "renders" after the original edit, in order to get that file size down to a level that will be shoe-horned into a dual-layer DVD with a storage capacity of (nominally) 8.5GB. The image quality should not drop off by too much!

Neil.

HI folks. Thanks for your help so far. Here are some answers and an update and an update of the question:

This project is full of action; the world championships of medeival armored combat. This is the "fyull-fight" version that will have al the action that involved the US team. Therfore, it has to be 2 hours & 58 inutes (2:48 = typo). I trimmed about 20 seconds and the "Create Disk" screen now says it will come in at 11,379 MB (11.38GB).

I want to mass-produce this to sell to fans of the sport. Putitng it on two disks and packaging it in a 2-disk package will double the production cost and time.

I will also be producing a "documentary" version (more focus on interviews, highlights of the action) for the general public and submission to festivals that will be 90-120 minutes. Utlimately folks will be able to buy both that or a 2-disck version with the full-fight edition.

Someone pointed out that DVDs play at 720x480, do I don;t need to make my master at 1280x720. So I went back and produced the full fight version at the lower setting (DVD hq 720 x 480/60i (8Mbps)). It came out at 10.2 GB, total bitrate 8556kbps.

A couple of websites recommended using Handbrake to reduce the size of the video. I downloaded the program and tried re-mastering the video at all the default settings, and came up with a video that was 4.36 GB and total bitrate 3499kbps!

I played that file in my Windows Media Player, and it looked great! No noticable difference from the original!

So I opened a new project in PD13, dropped the smalled file in the library, pulled it onto the timeline, and saved the project. Then I went to "Create Disk" and found...that it still said the resultant file would be 11.39GB.

I even put the 10.2GB file in, did all the same things, and got the same result.

So is there some other program that will take that smaller file and let me create a menu and burn a disk at that smaller file's size? Or am I missing something? Zorikh

You can try SmartFit. It will reduce the file size to fit a dvd dl disc.

Zorikh,

Powerdirector's Create Disk module does its own thing.

You can try Smartfit, to see if it will produce the approximately 4 Mbps bitrate you need to fit that much time on a Double layer Disk.

If you can get Powerdirector to create the needed less than 8.5 GB disk, if you create an ISO file (Check Create Disk Image on final output) you can then use that ISO file and external disk burning software to burn as many disks as you wish.

I am not familiar with other disk creation software, even though I do know some exists that may do what you want.

Attached is a screen capture of the PD13 2D disk tab in Create Disk Module.

. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Quote: So is there some other program that will take that smaller file and let me create a menu and burn a disk at that smaller file's size? Or am I missing something?

Yes, it sounds like you are missing several fundamentals. But anyhow, what you desire appears to be a simple method to create your project to a 4.7GB disc using PD13, which for your 2hr 50min project would require a bitrate of ~3500kbps as you saw with Handbrake. So these step will do just that:

1) Create a custom profile using the setting you listed as base, DVD HQ 720 x 480/60i (8Mbps), simply modify the avg and max bitrates to be 3200, and 3500 kbps respectively
2) Produce your project
3) Start a new project and bring file from item 2 into the time
4) Add chapters
5) Go to create disc and select menu
6) Set DVD and 4.7GB Disc
7) Burn to folder, see the pic shows size of 4660MB which is a single layer 4.7GB DVD for the 2hr 48 min project as shown in lower left corner
8) Burn folder to 4.7GB DVD disc using your favorite burn utility

That’s it. You wouldn’t find me being a happy customer paying for what I thought might be a high quality project and receive this DVD disc and pop into any large screen TV for viewing, I’d be less than happy. Early 2000, viewers probably content, 2016, probably not. Attached pic shows entire process with verification screens and highlighted pertinent data to prove concept.

The above achieves your goal, Good Luck.

Jeff

Thanks guys. I will see what I can do with your advice.

BTW, I don't need it to be on a single layer disk, I just want to be able to fit it on one disk, so dual-layer for the 3 hour movie is OK.

Also, I just figured out how to open those pictures you have been attaching, so hopefully that will help Zorikh

Quote: Thanks guys. I will see what I can do with your advice.

BTW, I don't need it to be on a single layer disk, I just want to be able to fit it on one disk, so dual-layer for the 3 hour movie is OK.

Also, I just figured out how to open those pictures you have been attaching, so hopefully that will help

Then simply use SmartFit as was recomended several posts ago, it is capable of putting 2hr 50min on a dual layer DVD but not on a single layer DVD.

Jeff

Well, I did several things.

I reduced the bitrate when "producing" the video on PD13, setting the bitrate manually, coming up with a smaller size video that looked just fine, as the others did. No noticeable difference from the full-size video.

I then tried dropping that back into PD13 to create a disk and again, I would up qith the 11+ GB file. I figured out that whatever size of the video, the size of the file that will try to go on the DVD wil be the same for that length of video.

So I just took the full-size 720x480 version of the movie, dropped it in, set the p[rogram for an 8.5GB DVD, set it for "SmartFit" (which woudl try to burn an 8499MB file on the 8.5MB disk) and in the name of almighty Kafka, set it to burning.

To my surprise and amazement, it worked! I am watching it now in my DVD player on my 21-inch cathode-ray tube TV and it looks great! The only critique is that the image is "stretched" ever so slightly from left to right (making everyone look ever so slightly short and fat), and the sides the image is trimmed right to the edge ot the "TV safe zone" for which PD 13 provides guidelines (I guess those lines are there for a reason, eh?).

I will be watching it on a nice big flatscreen soon and make a decision as to whether this is the answer or not, but it looks good so far.

I will have to adjust the sound and a few other details, but that's all about editing, not mastering and burning.

Thanks for all your help, everyone! I feel I know a lot more about this part of the video production process now! Zorikh