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Problem with playback when rendered to Windows Media format
deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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Hi. New member, 1st post (and I'm a 62 year old carpenter so be gentle). I'm still finding my way around PowerDirector having recently migrated from Sony Movie Studio (formerly Vegas) so the problem could be me and not the software.

I've recently put together a video from clips mostly taken at 1080/50p on my camcorder. Preview and rendering work fine. If I produce a video using H.264 AVC M2TS at 1920 x 1080/50p this works and plays back fine. However, if I produce a video using Windows Media Video 9, either full HD or even at a much lower resolution, playing it back is awful. On my PC the video is very pixelated and blocky. My HDI Dune media player won't play it at all and crashes, yet it is fine with the M2TS file. I did produce another video to wmv format a few months back which worked fine. However, since then I have added a second monitor to my PC and changed my main hard drive to an SSD by cloning my original HDD. I can't think why this would affect wmv renders and not M2TS renders but you never know...........

Any thoughts and suggestions would be much appreciated.



Thanks
ynotfish
Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline
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Hi deckingman -

I'm a 62 y/o (wannabe) carpenter - nothing wrong with that!

If you were going to build a quality deck that would still look good in 20 years, would you use blackbutt or pine?



That's about the difference (in carpentry terms) between AVC H.264 MTS and WMV. They're both compressed formats, but WMV much more so.

Which WMV profiles did you try? The WMV9 Full HD 1920x1080/25p profile will render a bitrate of ~10Mbps. Your camera probably records at more than twice that... so choosing that option is a serious compromise in quality.

Is the pixelation happening throughout the video or mainly at transition points? What's the content of the original video? Still scenes? Action shots? Panning?

Your Dune Media Player (according to the specs) should be OK with WMV9 - Video codecs: MPEG2, MPEG4, XVID, WMV9, VC1, H.264; support for very high bitrate video (up to 50 MBit/s and higher)Video file formats: MKV, MPEG-TS, MPEG-PS, M2TS, VOB, AVI, MOV, MP4, QT, ASF, WMV, DVD-ISO, VIDEO_TS It certainly shouldn't be "shutting shop" the way you've described.

I just took a clip shot at 1080p 50fps @ 28Mbps & produced to WMV 1080p @ 10Mbps (standard PDR profile) - looks OK, but not as good as the original. Using a custom profile (25Mbps), the motion is smoother... but still not close to the original MTS clip or the M2TS produced file. That's what you'd expect.

The only advantage of using WMV is space saving. Is that what you need to do?

Cheers - Tony
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Carl312
Senior Contributor Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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On the Window Media video, are you sure you selected the 1920x1080 profile?

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 Filename
Capture_2.mp4
[Disk]
 Description
Demo of selecting WMV Full HD video
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2307 Kbytes
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131 time(s)
Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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@ynotfish.

Thanks for the reply. By default I render everything to AVC H.264 M2TS 1980x1080/50fps and that's what I did with this particular project which all works fine. Now, I also wanted a smaller file size copy that I could upload to my google drive to share with my daughter who lives in Australia. She would only play it on her laptop which is quite old, and as we have pretty poor broadband speed in this rural part of the UK, I needed to produce a smaller file size copy so that I could upload it in less than a week and which would play on her aging laptop. Hence the wmv version as well as the AVC HD. Also, ref the Dune, this is the first time it has ever refused to play any file - it handles everything I have ever thrown at it in the 5 years or so I've owned it.



@Carl312. Yup - from the dropdown list for "Windows Media" I selected "Windows Media Video Full HD 1920x1080p(10Mbps). As an aside, I also tried 1280x720/25p (6MPS) but that wouldn't play either.



Just to re-iterate, I did the same exerise a couple of months ago but wth a different project. That is to say I produced an AVC H.264 M2TS version as well as a WMV version and both versions played fine on both my Dune and my PC.

The only other thing that has happened is that I installed the latest patch so I'm going to try rendering the older project (the one that I have a working wmv file for) and see if the new wmv still works. If it doesn't I guess it has to be something to do with the patch. I'll rport back.........
deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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Hi again,

So, I've just re-rendered the project that I created about a month ago using exactly the same settings and the result is pixelated, blocky and unwatchable. That is to say, I have two .wmv files, one created on 8th November (not as long ago as I thought) but before I installed the software update and it plays just fine. The second version, created today is unwatchable. Also, I have dowloaded a free trial version of something called "WinX HD Video Converter Deluxe". I used this to convert the AVC version to wmv and the result plays fine.That is to say, rendering to wmv using power diretor creates an unwatchable file. Rendering to AVC H264 and converting the result to wmv using a third party programme creates a watchable file.

My thoughts therefore are that it has to be something to do with the software patch which is the only thing that has changed. How do I report this to someone who should know? Or can anyone come up with anything else I should try.

@ynotfish. As you've posted pics of deck planking, I've just added my web site to my profile in case you are interested (take a look at the gallery or portfolio).
ynotfish
Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline
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Nice work deckingman - the gallery of works on your website is very impressive. Maybe I shouldn't have used pine in the analogy above! embarassed

That's odd - what you said about WMVs rendered after applying the latest patch. Comparing MediaInfo reports, I can't find any significant differences between pre-2302 rendered WMVs & those I produced today.

Many converters, like the one you mentioned & FormatFactory, use the WMV2 codec. PDR uses WMV3 (more recent).

Anyway - you've found something that works. It's still a little puzzling that the issue started after you applied the 2302 patch.

Cheers - Tony

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 04. 2015 21:36


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optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
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If you think that it was a patch that cause your WMV quality to go downhill, you can try uninstalling PD and then reinstall it but then only apply the 2221 patch.

If you're able to produce your new project without the WMV problems, report the issue to CL tech support. You can contact them by hovering your cursor over the Support link at the top of this page and logging in to (or creating) your account. From there, you can click on the Contact Customer Support and choose Tech Support.

I would recommend sending along at least one of the original clips for testing, and it might be easiest to share a GoogleDrive link after you've uploaded it. You could also post the link here and let other members see what results they get when producing to WMV.

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
Anonymous [Avatar]
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I think Deckingman's problems with Power Director 14 post-patch are a good reason why I should steer clear of installing patches to PD 14 on my computer. This is borne out by problems I had some time ago while still using PD7. I'd not long joined the internet and had it on while I had PD7 opened. The little pop-up came on my screen to update PD7 to a newer build, I clicked and the upgrade(so-called) caused PD7 to crash too often for my liking. I uninstalled PD7 then re-installed WITHOUT the patch and PD7 worked fine - no more crashing! Once bitten - twice shy! I'd been lucky with PD8 even with the patch, but with PD14 I'll leave well enough alone. I get a few crashes but mainly it does its job. I use PD14 to edit and render to MPEG2 DVD-SP but I continue to use PD8 for authoring to disc as PD14 does not give me the option of setting the authoring quality to DVD-SP, PD14 allows only DVD-HQ or "Smart Fit", the latter option I'm wary of as I suspect it will cut out(excise) portions of the video to fit one hour of HQ on the disc. When I author to disc I want to take full advantage of the 4.7Gb of capacity to fit 2 hours + on the disc.

Cheers!

Neil.
ynotfish
Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline
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Well - it's got me! I've tried & tried on 3 PCs to get PDR14 to produce WMVs in any way differently using different builds.

The original clip I used is probably similar to deckingman's 1920x1080 MTS @ 23 Mbps... except it wasn't shot at 50fps.

Have a look for yourself - even the MediaInfo reports from 14.2019 & 14.2302 are almost identical. I've uploaded the packed projects, including the rendered files & MediaInfo reports here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxp60P6x4uM2eWFYVk5ZTDdHb1E/view?usp=sharing

As far as I can see, and I tested the beta patches too, there is NO difference between WMVs produced in any build of PDR14... not to say that I doubt the word of a 62 y/o carpenter, just that I cannot replicate it here.

Cheers - Tony
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deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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Well I was thinking it might have been the update patch because I can't think of anything else that has changed apart from cloning my HDD to an SSD. If nobody else can replicate the problem then I guess it has to be something else but I'm stumped as to knowing what.

I've looked at the properties of the 2 files and there is a slight difference in file size but in all other respects they look identical. i.e. video length is 4.28, width is 1920, height is 1080, data rate is 10000, total bit rrate is 10320 frame rate is 25fps, audio 320kbs, 2 channel stereo sample rate 44khz and both are reported as 317MB. However, the one that plays correctly shows a Size of 332,528,034 bytes with Size on Disk being 332,529,664 bytes. The one that doesn't play shows the Size as being 332,769,698 bytes and Size on Disc as being 332,771,328 bytes. Why would this be??

What is the best practice for re-instaling the software and will I lose any data? I bought the software as a boxed disc rather than a download so I have the original disc. Do I just uninstall using windows and re-instal or can I re-instal over the top or what?



Edit. For now, I've put the AVC/M2TS file on a usb stick because we are flying out to Canberra next Thursday so I can take it with me to share with my daughter. With my broadband upload speed, it'll probably be quicker.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 05. 2015 08:12

optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
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Quote: ...What is the best practice for re-instaling the software and will I lose any data? I bought the software as a boxed disc rather than a download so I have the original disc. Do I just uninstall using windows and re-instal or can I re-instal over the top or what?...


As I described in my earlier post, you do need to uninstall PD14 to get rid of an update patch and you will not lose any clips. However, ynotfish's thorough detective work is showing a high likelihood that a patch isn't the issue, and at this point I think you should hold off on any actions until we get some solid info about your system.

In the *Welcome* sticky, please follow the steps for Part B and post the results here. We won't be able to see how your PC was set up before the problem happened, but we'll be able to see what it looks like now. Also, I think it would be very helpful for us to be able to test a short clip that you're unable to produce to WMV. IF you can shoot a 5 or 10 second clip and get terrible results when trying to produce just that, please attach it here or upload it to GoogleDocs and post a link.

Sometimes, installing a 3rd party app can break something in Windows or even PD, but right now we're completely in the dark without the DxDiag results and a sample clip. Please let us know if you can provide both, and hopefully that will give us enough info to resolve the issue.

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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Okey dokey I'll do what I can to provide the info. It may take me while as I'm not too computer literate.
deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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Dxdiag32 bit and 64bit attached. I don't know how to zip them.

Just to re-iterate that the only problem I'm having is rendering using wmv. Even then, the rendering process is fine - just the playback that is awful. Something has changed since 8th November as before then, a wmv file that I produced was fine.

I'll see if I can produe a short clip with the problem, to post later.



Many thanks for your input so far guys.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 05. 2015 17:08

optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
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Thanks for uploading those! There's no need to zip the results, and one thing that jumped out at me is that the video drivers for your Radeon HD 6670 are nearly 3 years old!

Please visit the AMD update site and get the latest drivers (15.7.1) The driver for your card on the US site is *here* but you should probably get it from the UK site to make sure you get the correct version.

Let us know how things go after installing the new graphics driver!

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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This is really weird. Video drivers duly updated. Now I have a different problem. If I render to wmv format now, it plays fine. However, if I play any wmv files that were generated using PD before today, they are pixelated and unwatchable. That is to say, the problem has switched around and new files play fine but old ones which used to play fine, now don't.

All other wmv files on my system play fine, regardless of when and how they were created. I've just tried rendering an old project using Sony Movie Studio. The resultant wmv file plays fine as does the old (pre updated video driver) file.

I'm leaning towards the conclusion that Cyberlink Power Director doesn't like something about my system. It worked reasonably well (apart from various random crashes) before I upgraded my aging HDD to a bright shiny new Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Or maybe it's adding a Dell Ultrasharp monitor and changing a dual monitor setup. I realy don't know but I don't have any problems with Sony Movie Studio Platinum.
optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
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That's very strange, indeed, although PD's heavy reliance on AMD and nVidia video drivers and the subsequent vulnerabilities are well documented on this forum.

Even though we seemed to have flipped the problem around rather than completely solving it, I think you're in a better position now than you were before updating the drivers. If your main goal for producing to WMV is to save upload bandwidth and still be playable on older hardware AND you'll be using that plan going forward, then maybe there's no further need to investigate.

Can you confirm that your normal output formats work properly?

I have no hands-on experience with AMD cards and I don't know if there might be some settings that would make a difference, so I'll need to leave that to one of the other experts.


YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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@optodata.



Thanks for you help. Yes, I normally produce everything in AVC 1920 x 1080/50 H264 as that is the native format that I use on my camcorder and that works fine. I only make a low res version if there is something that I want to share with my daughter. As she lives 10,000 miles away, this has to be done via the internet. Where I live, I'm lucky to get 2mb/sec download speed, and upload speed is about 1/10th of this (that's mega bits, not mega bytes).

Now I just need to address why PD has started crashing every 5 minutes or so but that's another topic.
optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
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Well I looked at your DxDiag results again and saw that many of the drivers are dated from 2009, which means they've never been updated. A quick internet search found that the Acer hasn't released any specific updates for your system since Dec 2009, but there's an updater tool on the Application tab of this *page* that might be worth downloading and running.

Since PD just started crashing, it's a fair bet that the new graphics drivers are involved and it's probably worth a try to uninstall PD and reinstall it per the steps I outlined in an earlier post. This way, you'll have PD installed "on top off" the existing driver framework and that might get rid of the crashes.

You should also download and install the latest version of *Quicktime* When you install it, you only need the Essentials files and you can set all the other items to not be installed and also decline the "Go Pro" option.

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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Thanks again for your help and for taking the time. Thanks also for the link. I used that tool to find the serrial number and then check for updates but everything is dated 2009 so I guess there is nothing new. Incidentaly, although the machine started life as an Acer Veriton, only the case, motherboard and processor are original. Everything else has been changed (or added). I'll reinstall the software and qicktime as you suggested. Thanks again.
deckingman [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Northampton UK Joined: Nov 03, 2015 17:04 Messages: 10 Offline
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Software re-installed (including quicktime). Crashes still occuring after about 5 minutes or less, when doing nothing more than previewing. Update patches then applied - still frequently crashing. It seemas that whatever I do, just makes matters worse.

I have to say that I'm really running out of patience with this software. Sony Movie Maker is rock solid (but slow) and handles audio very much better. I bought Audio Director 6 as well as PD but it's a complete pain to use compared to the "all in one" approach of Movie Maker.

I know my processor and motherboard ain't the best and I could put up with the software being slow, if only it were stable.

Unless anyone can shed any light, I think I'll just uninstall all this Cyberlink stuff and go back to using Sony Movie Maker.

Thanks everyone for trying. Your help is much appreciated.
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