Bug or Bizarre Feature?

18tillidie

Newbie Location: Los Angeles, CA Joined: Sep 29, 2014 12:24 Messages: 46 Offline

Solved by

Nov 09, 2015 23:01

Not sure if it's a bug or a birarre feature with a purpose I just don't get...

To set the context, I mostly produce sport (Ice Hockey) videos, using 4 cameras and separate audio.

When I have a milticam track on track 1, then have two replay clips on a lower track (higher numbered track), and insert an overlapping transition between the two clips, the transition shifts the second clip back to overlap the first, and doesn't affect any other clips on any other track... (As you would expect)

If I decide to change one of the replay clips (eg. re-edit in Crop&Zoom), and I remove the transition between the two clips, the second clip shifts forward to it's original position, but the video clips from that point forward on track 1 also shift forward by the same amount, leaving a gap! The audio on track 1 doesn't move, as I am only replaying the video clips, and the audio is not linked since it came from a separately recorded audio track used to sync the multicam sequence.

I have no idea why removing the transition should affect the other track (at least not without giving me an option to select whether to move all tracks or only the selected track), but it's damned annoying to have to go back and move all the video clips on track 1 back to the right spot to sync with the audio. (Particularly when there are a large number of multi cam clips to select. It requires adding a new track above track 1 just so you can select all the video clips without the audio.)

Any thought or suggestions would be welcome, 'cos I think it's just an annoying bug!

Cheers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Nov 10. 2015 00:22

https://vimeo.com/timsanson

18tillidie

Newbie Location: Los Angeles, CA Joined: Sep 29, 2014 12:24 Messages: 46 Offline

Nov 09, 2015 23:15

Here's a screen shot of the before and after...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 09. 2015 23:19

https://vimeo.com/timsanson

ynotfish

Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline

Nov 10, 2015 01:41

Hi there -

From here, that looks like an overlap type transition. That's possibly what you have set in Preferences.

Try repeating the procedure with your preferences set to cross type transitions - see if it behaves more "predictably".

Cheers - Tony
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18tillidie

Newbie Location: Los Angeles, CA Joined: Sep 29, 2014 12:24 Messages: 46 Offline

Nov 10, 2015 09:25

Quote: Hi there -

From here, that looks like an overlap type transition. That's possibly what you have set in Preferences.

Try repeating the procedure with your preferences set to cross type transitions - see if it behaves more "predictably".

Cheers - Tony

Thanks Tony, but I actually want an Overlap transition... it helps transition a slow motion replay from one camera angle into another replay of the same passage of play from another angle, plus it helps me manage the time, since it moves the second clip forward on the timeline to overlap the first. (I generally try to fit two replays in between the real time event and the subsequent faceoff, to avoid shifting clips and audio on my main track, so I use clip length, slow motion speed and the transition to manage the total duration.

I would expect the behavior to occur with any subsequent clips on the same track, or if I added an overlapping transition to the video between two clips with unlinked audio... that's why I edit sequntially. But I don't understand why removing an overlapping transition on one track shifts the clips on another track without asking. (It didn't overlap or shift them on the timeline when I originally inserted the transition on the track below, so why should they shift when I remove it?)
https://vimeo.com/timsanson

Alessandro de Sica

Member Joined: May 24, 2013 19:23 Messages: 72 Offline

Nov 10, 2015 13:32

Oh god, like with so many other bizarre PD bugs you're not alone here.

I have an end title crawl and a background for that on another track, and when I put a fade out on the background it inexplicably fades out the crawl on the other track too, but -and here it gets bizarre- the crawl fades out slightly BEFORE the background and then COMES BACK FOR A SPLIT SECOND, only to vanish for good! This has driven me nuts more than once.

ynotfish

Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline

Nov 10, 2015 13:51

18tillidie -

Sorry - I guess I didn't read your post thoroughly enough. I'm with it now & I see what you're saying.

When I replicate your timeline & procedure here, a similar thing happens but the T1 audio doesn't split from T1 video. All subsequent clips on T1 shift forward when:

the T2 overlap type transition is removed (not cross type)

speed change (0.5) is applied to a clip in T2

PDR13 behaves in exactly the same way.

I understand why you're editing sequentially - to keep things synched as you go. Would it work for you to lock T1 while you're making adjustments to T2?

Agreed - I find it bizarre behaviour too.

Cheers - Tony
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18tillidie

Newbie Location: Los Angeles, CA Joined: Sep 29, 2014 12:24 Messages: 46 Offline

Nov 10, 2015 19:02

Quote: 18tillidie -

Sorry - I guess I didn't read your post thoroughly enough. I'm with it now & I see what you're saying.

When I replicate your timeline & procedure here, a similar thing happens but the T1 audio doesn't split from T1 video. All subsequent clips on T1 shift forward when:

the T2 overlap type transition is removed (not cross type)

speed change (0.5) is applied to a clip in T2

PDR13 behaves in exactly the same way.

I understand why you're editing sequentially - to keep things synched as you go. Would it work for you to lock T1 while you're making adjustments to T2?

Agreed - I find it bizarre behaviour too.

Cheers - Tony

Thanks Tony,

The Audio is never linked... I create T1 in MultiCam Designer, 4 cameras synced with a separate audio track. I do my basic rough camera cuts here, then I end up with series of video clips from various cameras on T1 with a single audio from a different source. Apart from cutting from one camara to the other, I also plan for replays here. If there's a passage of play I may want to replay, eg. a goal, I will switch to the camara behind the goal after the goal for just a few seconds (plus any other angles I could possibly want) just so I know I have it on the timeline later to do the replay. That way I can easily replay the same sequence from multiple angles.

Locking T1 won't work, as I am constantly splitting T1 either side of a sequence I plan to replay, so I can copy down the clip from a different camera then drag it back to duplicate the sequence from the other angle, shift it out of the way, then copy down the original sequence, then crop, zoom and slowmo both, then add transitions. So I need free access to T1... it gets split up heaps but remains sequentially intact behind the replays unless I really need to make extra room, then I'll shift it along to create a gap behind them. (rare)

I've tried several different workflows, including being more precise in MultiCam, laying all camera tracks and syncing on the main timeline etc, but this seems to be the most efficient and reliable.

My work around is just to never add the transition until I'm totally happy that I have everything else right... but occassionally... well... you know!!!

(If there's interest, I'll produce a step by step when I get some time.)

Cheers.
https://vimeo.com/timsanson