Last year there was no graphics card supporting HEVC playback hardware acceleration, so how would you expect PowerDVD14 to support it?

The first card with HEVC playback acceleration was only released a few months ago (NVidia GTX 960 I believe), the few models before it only had HEVC encoding acceleration, not playback acceleration.

AMD has not even released a first card with HEVC playback acceleration, this is expected with the R9 300 series, which is coming this summer.

If you had a card last year which supported HEVC acceleration when you bought PowerDVD14, please let us know which one it was.

What does my video card has to do with it??? This was a media playback software. It was inevitable, soon rather than later, that a card would eventually have a dedicated HEVC decoder, or atleast hardware-acceleration like the 970/980 Maxwell series from Nvidia back around September of last year which was around the time PowerDVD 14 launched. PowerDVD 14 was being advertised as HEVC supported so naturally myself and others thought that it would support hardware-acceleration when a card/APU comes out.

I think it's logical to think this way.

Without a video card supporting it, there cannot be any hardware acceleration for HEVC.

And until they know how to call the hardware accelerated API, there is no way for a software to support it.

This is why you see it now in 15, and not in 14.

I'm just saying why your expectations were not very realistic, but of course you can disagree

If you buy PDVD 15 now, don't be surprised if it doesn't support UHD Bluray when it's released around the end of the year.

The fact that we know it's going to happen doesn't mean that Cyberlink is able to support the new format before it's actually implemented in hardware, both through compatible BDXL drives and HEVC hardware acceleration in GPUs, as well as HDCP 2.2 compliance.

Will you complain when you have to buy PDVD 16 to play UHD blurays, simply because we know today it's coming? There is no hardware support for it available now, so it's likely you'll have to buy a new version if you want to play it.

By the way, I would love it if we never had to buy a new version, but given the discount existing users get to upgrade (I only paid £28 to get my upgrade to PDVD 15 Ultra from PDVD 14 Ultra) I don't think it's an outrageous amount to pay in order to get maintenance on my software.

Just my .2 cents

Hello, it's the same compression- HEVC i.e. the same algorithm; it shouldn't matter if it's software decoding or HW decoding because it's the same algorithm. And by the way, when PowerDVD 14 launched, Nvidia's 750 was out that does have hardware-acceleration for HEVC decoding. The 960 just have a dedicated HEVC decoder.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that software decoding doesn't look good in comparison to hardware-accelerated decoding especially with H.265 compression. Cyberlink was kinda misleading with the PowerDVD 14 by heavily-promoting HEVC support but only for software-decoding which is the most terrible decoding them all.

As I said, the 750 did not support full hardware acceleration, only partial. The first card to support full hardware acceleration for HEVC playback was the 960, released this year.

There is no visual difference between software decoding and hardware decoding as long as your CPU/GPU is powerful enough. In fact, software decoding is often BETTER than hardware decoding. Look at what MadVR does by not using hardware accelerated APIs (DXVA) provided by the various GPUs and using instead the power of the CPU/GPU to provide much better results.

The only difference is that hardware acceleration allows to unload the CPU and/or provide a performance increase, often at the expense of quality (if compared with high end renderers/scalers like MadVR).

Anyway, you were asking a question, I gave you my opinion, I'll leave the thread now to let you see if you are alone or not.

All the best

Quote: As I said, the 750 did not support full hardware acceleration, only partial. The first card to support full hardware acceleration for HEVC playback was the 960, released this year. Unfortunately you don't know the difference between hardware-acceleration and DEDICATED decoder. Ditto, the 750, which was out before PowerDVD 14, has hardware-acceleration, the 960 has an actual dedicated decoder like the one in the 4K SmartTVs.

There is no visual difference between software decoding and hardware decoding as long as your CPU/GPU is powerful enough. In fact, software decoding is often BETTER than hardware decoding. Look at what MadVR does by not using hardware accelerated APIs (DXVA) provided by the various GPUs and using instead the power of the CPU/GPU to provide much better results. You need to go to an Ophthalmologist then, because software decoding especially with H.265 is terrible. I have PowerDirector 13 and I rendered a couple of videos in HEVC compression and I used those same media files on PowerDVD 14 and it was ugly as hell; I used those same media files on my 4K SmartTV which has a DEDICATED decoder for HEVC and it looked beautifully.

Software decoding is too slow for H.265 decoding.....that's not a subjective opinion, it's a fact.

The only difference is that hardware acceleration allows to unload the CPU and/or provide a performance increase, often at the expense of quality (if compared with high end renderers/scalers like MadVR). That's what I explain out to you between the difference of Hardware-acceleration and an actual dedicated HEVC decoder.

Anyway, you were asking a question, I gave you my opinion, I'll leave the thread now to let you see if you are alone or not.

All the best

My R9 290x supports h265 hardware decoding... go figure.
Just a hint, graphics cards nowadays are programmable, and a driver can add features to it without needing new hardware. My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7

Quote: My R9 290x supports h265 hardware decoding... go figure.
Just a hint, graphics cards nowadays are programmable, and a driver can add features to it without needing new hardware.

Your 290x doesn't support what's called hardware decoding. It might support hybrid decoding, which is as you say reprogramming the drivers to use the GPU instead of the CPU to do some of the HEVC decoding. But that's still software, it's the drivers (software)using the GPU (hardware) instead of the software using the CPU (purely software). This offloads the CPU and gives some speed increase, but nothing compared to what is called hardware acceleration.

Hardware acceleration is when the GPU contains a decoding chip, or decoding routines burnt into the chip itself (for speed). This obviously can't be done through software/drivers and does require a change of hardware (the GPU itself).

AFAIK there is no AMD GPU with full hardware HEVC acceleration (the first one is expected to be the R9 390X coming up in June, along with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2) and the first nVidia with full HEVC decoding acceleration was the 960X a few months ago. Before that, nVidia GPU either had HEVC encoding (but not decoding) hardware acceleration, or hybrid acceleration.

Even Intel on-chip GPUs support HEVC/H.265 hardware decoding. And AMD GPUs support it through OpenCL.

Learn a bit about OpenCL, and you'll understand why such features don't have to be "burnt into the chip" as you say. My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7

Learn about hardware acceleration and hardware decoding, and you'll understand why you need a new GPU.

Alternatively please show me one review / offical link to specs that confirms that the 290X has full HEVC hardware decoding (not hybrid decoding).

Quote: Learn about hardware acceleration and hardware decoding, and you'll understand why you need a new GPU.

I've been working in the video industry the last 25 years. Nice try though.

You don't need full GPU hardware acceleration to have maximum decoding quality. Both the Intel and AMD OpenCL solution offload the CPU so that even lower end CPUs can achieve the decoding.

Either you have the horsepower to decode, or you don't and then you'll have quality loss and frame drops. But in this case, unless you have a very old CPU, that won't happen. My computer decodes h265 videos without breaking a sweat. Hell, you can decode max. quality 4K h265 without any frame drops and without getting even close to max CPU usage on a Core I3 with just any haswell or sandybridge CPU since the Intel driver, without even a dedicated graphic card. My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7

As I said earlier, hardware acceleration has nothing to do with quality. It usually provides much inferior quality than high end software renderers / upscalers like MadVR, which can nevertheless use the hardware acxceleration if you want to favor speed over quality. If you care about quality however, you don't want to use hardware acceleration, you use better renderers with the right CPU/GPU power according to your needs (you will indeed need more power).

This thread is about hardware acceleration and the lack of support in PDVD 14. I assume it matters to those who do not have the grunt in their CPU/GPU combo to decode in other, better ways, or those who believe wrongly, like the OP, that hardware acceleration provides the best quality.

You were wrongly claiming that your 290X had hardware HEVC decoding acceleration, I'm glad you are now taking this back as you have realized it does not.

The fact that someone has been working for 25 years in the video industry doesn't mean anything. I have been working for 25 years in both the computer and the film/video industry, there are incompetent people (or people who know less than they think, which doesn't stop them from giving lessons to others and making false claims) in every industry.

Quote: You were wrongly claiming that your 290X had hardware HEVC decoding acceleration, I'm glad you are now taking this back as you have realized it does not.

I'm definitely not taking it back. I can't take it back, because I'm using that feature.

Quote: The fact that someone has been working for 25 years in the video industry doesn't mean anything

It means I'm a professional. By the way, do you know there are $50 Android TV boxes doing full 4K h265 hardware decoding? But I have no doubt those $50 devices are more powerful than a core I7 + a high end PC GPU.

Quote: I have been working for 25 years in both the computer and the
film/video industry, there are incompetent people (or people who know
less than they think, which doesn't stop them from giving lessons to
others and making false claims) in every industry.

How amusing... suddenly, you're also a 25 years+ expert. Isn't that an interesting coincidence?

Ignorance isn't stupidity. Refusing to acknowledge you are ignorant is stupid, though. Don't limit what is possible to the limits of your own imagination and/or knowledge. Now you can go back in your garage and play with that camcorder. I mean, you've been doing that the last 25 years, that must make you a film/video expert. My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7

Quote:

Quote: You were wrongly claiming that your 290X had hardware HEVC decoding acceleration, I'm glad you are now taking this back as you have realized it does not.

I'm definitely not taking it back. I can't take it back, because I'm using that feature.

Quote: The fact that someone has been working for 25 years in the video industry doesn't mean anything

It means I'm a professional. By the way, do you know there are $50 Android TV boxes doing full 4K h265 hardware decoding? But I have no doubt those $50 devices are more powerful than a core I7 + a high end PC GPU.

Quote: I have been working for 25 years in both the computer and the
film/video industry, there are incompetent people (or people who know
less than they think, which doesn't stop them from giving lessons to
others and making false claims) in every industry.

How amusing... suddenly, you're also a 25 years+ expert. Isn't that an interesting coincidence?

Ignorance isn't stupidity. Refusing to acknowledge you are ignorant is stupid, though. Don't limit what is possible to the limits of your own imagination and/or knowledge. Now you can go back in your garage and play with that camcorder. I mean, you've been doing that the last 25 years, that must make you a film/video expert.

Link to a review or specs lisitng the 290X as supporting full hardware HEVC decoding?

I'm really not interesting in discussing the rest, but before posting cynical remarks, just check your facts.

Quote: Link to a review or specs lisitng the 290X as supporting full hardware HEVC decoding?

I'm really not interesting in discussing the rest, but before posting cynical remarks, just check your facts.

Do you even read what other people post ? My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7

Quote: My R9 290x supports h265 hardware decoding... go figure.
Just a hint, graphics cards nowadays are programmable, and a driver can add features to it without needing new hardware.

Yes, this is the incorrect statement you posted initially. It seems that you are unable to either accept you are wrong or prove that you are right.

just a hint: your 290X doesn't support h265 hardware decoding.

Full image: https://i.imgur.com/zpoOmkP.jpg

You were saying?

Interesting how a card supposed to not hardware decode h265 is having its frequency boosted to max and its activity over 90% when reading a h265 file, isn't it?

The movie used is http://www.libde265.org/hevc-bitstreams/bbb-3840x2160-cfg02.mkv , you can double check, it's definitely 4K H265. My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7

Quote:



Full image: https://i.imgur.com/zpoOmkP.jpg

You were saying?

Interesting how a card supposed to not hardware decode h265 is having its frequency boosted to max and its activity over 90% when reading a h265 file, isn't it?

The movie used is http://www.libde265.org/hevc-bitstreams/bbb-3840x2160-cfg02.mkv , you can double check, it's definitely 4K H265.

To think that you are a "professional" is a vey scary thought . I'm glad I'm not one of your employers...

This screenshot is the very proof that your 290x doesn't have hardware acceleration when playing H265.

This is why the GPU is maxed up.

I never said you were not able play H265 file, or that the GPU wasn't involved in the process.

This is what I have been trying to explain to you from the beginning of our conversation, but the concept seems out of your grasp.

Take a deep breath, try to open your mind, and make the effort of reading what follows, trying to understand it. I haven't said anything different before, but I'll try to spell it out one last time.

When a GPU doesn't have any acceleration, the CPU is used and the GPU isn't used much.

When a GPU is used with hybrid acceleration (the case of your GPU), the load is transferred from the CPU to the GPU, which is why your GPU chokes at 96% under the load. The CPU, on the other hand, should have little load. This is when the driver, and software like OpenCL, handle the decoding. It's called hybrid because it's software accelration that uses the GPU (as a progammable processor) instead of the CPU to handle the decoding.

Full hardware accelration is when the GPU has decoding routines wired into the GPU itself. It doesn't provide better quality necessarily (usually not compared to excellent software renderers/scalers like MAdVR who would do the same as a hybrid support and often max the GPU to achieve the best possible quality), but it provides a performance boost, so that the GPU isn't maxed up like this (if your 290X had hardware accelartion, your GPU load would show something like 60% or less). This allows less powerful GPUs (like intergrated ones, or fanless discrete GPUs for HTPC) to handle the load.

This is my last attempt at trying to explain the difference between hardware acceleration (not expected on AMD until the 390X this summer) and hybrid acceleration (such as on your 290X).

If your 290X had hardware decoding acceleration, it wouldn't max up the way it does.

It was exactly the same when H264 arrived. You first had hybrid implementation to offload the CPU and make it possible to play a file on PCs with a weak CPU that couldn't handle it, then it was wired into the GPUs themselves to allow them to not max up doing it.

Please try to find a link showing that your 290X has hardware H265 decoding, and post it. Good luck with that.

Otherwise, try something simple: say I was mistaken, I stand corrected. There is no shame in that. We all learn something new everyday.

Have a good sunday.