Shockingly poor quality DVD from PD13! How come?

BigCheese

Newbie Joined: Apr 20, 2012 09:52 Messages: 12 Offline

Solved by

Dec 17, 2014 18:35

Hi everyone

I've been outputting my first DVDs (single layer) created in PD13 with a 2 hour AVI capture of standard camcorder footage.

I have had to output using the 'smart' setting as it needed to be shrunk down to fit into a single layer DVD.

I should note I have achieved this many times before in Adobe Encore (had some problems with it so moved to PD13), and in that software the recodes have been absolutely fine.

In PD13 they are shockingly bad, really awful! The colours are almost smeary at times and most importantly I can see compression artifacts in big squares in areas of similar colour and pixellated lines where there should be smooth lines.

I can't believe how poor it is and I'm tempted to take advantage of the 30 day money back guarantee, but, this software has had very good reviews and I do want to make it work.

What can have gone wrong to produce such a file or is that considered 'normal'?

Thank you in advance for any replies.

BarryTheCrab

Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline

Dec 17, 2014 19:25

The Smartfit function allowed you to put 2 hours of video on a DVD. The normal limit is about 60 minutes of full high quality (SD) video. So you have now cut the quality by half. A double-layer DVD using normal burn settings may have been a better choice. There may be other issues but this is a good start. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

BigCheese

Newbie Joined: Apr 20, 2012 09:52 Messages: 12 Offline

Dec 17, 2014 19:35

Hi, thank you for your reply.

I should have added that encoding video to DVD is not new to me and I have done it many a time with the Adobe software, 2 hours of SD in .avi has always fitted nicely onto a single sided disc.

I have tried re-encoding using a DVD-9 (thinking that would be a simple and quick solution) and the problems were reduced - slightly, the artifacting, pixellated slopes and general smeariness and lack of detail (should have mentioned that in my opening post) is still present.

I'm really at a loss what to do now as PD13 doesn't give a lot of options...is it's encoder really poor or am I missing something?

Thanks!

BigCheese

Newbie Joined: Apr 20, 2012 09:52 Messages: 12 Offline

Dec 17, 2014 19:57

*additional*

I have recoded the disc again setting the quality to 'smart fit', that fills up the disc at 8499MB.

HQ for these files comes out to 7631MB so it's reasonable to assume the quality would be best using this setting (it does call it best quality after all), the results are still smeary using the format.

Smart fit, going up to 8499MB is an improvement but it's still not as good as I was expecting.

It's quite a puzzle.

I have read around the subject in the past and remember reading that things like Nvidia Cuda processing can actually cause problems with encoding as it doesn't do as good a job as a CPU, but the additional help with encoding is blanked out when I'm creating a DVD so it can't be that at fault.

BarryTheCrab

Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline

Dec 17, 2014 20:09

Perhaps try convert to MPEG2 first, then burn at the slowest possible speed.
I've had no problems with video quality on my DVDs but never tried 2 hours.
Of course you should use RW discs to save on $$.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 17. 2014 20:10

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

tomasc

Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline

Dec 17, 2014 22:39

DV? AVI? SD? 4x3? Do you see other bitrate encoding options in create disc besides smart fit which is required only for 16x9...

BigCheese

Newbie Joined: Apr 20, 2012 09:52 Messages: 12 Offline

Dec 18, 2014 06:18

I think that's what I'm doing BarryTheCrab, I'm exporting it to a DVD folder, MPEG-2 is selected.

I can then check the footage on the monitor and can see the pixellation and smearing on it from there.

tomasc - they are AVI captures being encoded to MPEG-2 DVD folders.

The only options I have are:
HQ - best quality
SP - standard play
LP - long play
Smartfit

I'm not sure what you mean by smartfit only being useful for 16x9, it affects the size of the final outputted folder, not the size of the screen from what I can see.

I have delved into as many of the options as I can find today, in the produce section I have turned off the video noise reduction which I didn't know was enabled.

That didn't make a difference when encoding to a 4.5GB folder, I'm seeing what it looks like when outputting to an 8.5GB folder now...

BarryTheCrab

Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline

Dec 18, 2014 06:45

To be more precise, I mean in the timeline, produce your video to mpeg2.
Use that new file for your disc creation.
Perhaps you'd like editing in PD but burning with your favorite burn utility, many folks here go that route.
I do not, I stay mostly in PD for my work.
One more thing you might consider is attaching your dxdiag file from your computer for techies to see if anything is amiss.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 18. 2014 06:47

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

BigCheese

Newbie Joined: Apr 20, 2012 09:52 Messages: 12 Offline

Dec 18, 2014 08:05

Thanks for your reply, I think you may be onto something!

So this is the latest process..

IMPORT x2 1hour AVIs (around 25GB)
EDIT the titles (just swapping some footage round) then:
PRODUCE - MPEG-2, profile - DVD HQ 720x576/50i (8mbps)

That creates a 7.5GB MPG file. On inspection that file looks better than the others!

POWER2GO - AUTHOR MPG file to 8.5GB disc - still looks good on screen (not burnt disc yet)

-Additional test-
I'm currently recoding it using POWER2GO to a 4.7GB disc, I don't expect good results but I would like to see what it looks like. I think dual layer discs are going to be needed for this project though.

I was over the moon with the speed of processing from PD13 compared to Adobe Premiere/Encore, I think I know why now, quality is sacrificed for the sake of speed...not the best solution, but I'm crossing my fingers for how these turn out!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 18. 2014 08:06

tomasc

Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline

Dec 18, 2014 09:03

We don't have enough information from you in your initial post. Second guessing: Camcorder footage avi 2hr.~ 25GB to me is DV-AVI, 4x3 in which you never said. Smartfit reduces the 720 resolution to 360 in 16x9 whereas the other options does not. You are on 4x3

You are on the right track now. You'll do okay.

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Dec 18, 2014 21:53

Quote: Smartfit reduces the 720 resolution to 360 in 16x9 whereas the other options does not.

My PD13 behaves a little different that that statement, what I notice for 16x9 format PD13 simply reduces the bitrate and maintains 720 resolution. From my experience bitrate goes to a worst case of about half of normal and then PD throws up the size warning if estimated size still exceeds user selected media. This example pic shows Smart Fit putting ~1hr 57min on a 4.7GB DVD, video bitrate ~4900Kbps while maintaining 720 resolution.

PD13 has the same exact behavior above when using PD 8.5GB media option.

Not that I'd ever suggest Smart Fit as a viable option at PD13, but that's how it works on my platform. Older version behave differently concerning Smart Fit.

Jeff


Filename	smartfit.png	Download
Description
Filesize	599 Kbytes
Downloaded:	92 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 18. 2014 22:41

ssjjsd

Newbie Joined: Mar 17, 2013 09:12 Messages: 19 Offline

Feb 14, 2015 07:33

Quote:

Quote: Smartfit reduces the 720 resolution to 360 in 16x9 whereas the other options does not.

My PD13 behaves a little different that that statement, what I notice for 16x9 format PD13 simply reduces the bitrate and maintains 720 resolution. From my experience bitrate goes to a worst case of about half of normal and then PD throws up the size warning if estimated size still exceeds user selected media. This example pic shows Smart Fit putting ~1hr 57min on a 4.7GB DVD, video bitrate ~4900Kbps while maintaining 720 resolution.

PD13 has the same exact behavior above when using PD 8.5GB media option.

Not that I'd ever suggest Smart Fit as a viable option at PD13, but that's how it works on my platform. Older version behave differently concerning Smart Fit.

Jeff

I am probably missing something here but how on earth did you manage to burn 4.7GB in 10 minutes, it takes my system about 1.5 hours for DVD and about 2 hours for Blue Ray?

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Feb 14, 2015 08:11

A good quality DVD has around 6-8MBps. With CBR that means 1 hour per layer.
To fit 2 hours, you need to use VBR (2-pass), and this will result in an average 4.7Mbps rate, with a maximum 7.5Mbps in scenes with fast movement. Using CBR in this instance will totally ruin the parts with fast movement. VBR takes more time to encode.

In tis instance, produce first the MPEG2 file, using either the HQ preset or, if the file it doesn't fit, create your own preset.
Smart Fit it will use a half resolution format to save disc space (352x480 instead of 720x480 for NTSC). That looks terrible.
Those are the available settings for a custom MPEG2 - note the Variable Bit Rate setting (mode) needed to save space.

You can use an online calculator to find the best VBR for a certain project:
http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php
.


Filename	custom MPEG2.JPG	Download
Description
Filesize	41 Kbytes
Downloaded:	410 time(s)

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Feb 14. 2015 08:21

PlaySound

Senior Contributor Joined: Dec 02, 2010 10:26 Messages: 2031 Offline

Feb 14, 2015 10:21

Quote: Hi everyone

I've been outputting my first DVDs (single layer) created in PD13 with a 2 hour AVI capture of standard camcorder footage.

I have had to output using the 'smart' setting as it needed to be shrunk down to fit into a single layer DVD.

I should note I have achieved this many times before in Adobe Encore (had some problems with it so moved to PD13), and in that software the recodes have been absolutely fine.

In PD13 they are shockingly bad, really awful! The colours are almost smeary at times and most importantly I can see compression artifacts in big squares in areas of similar colour and pixellated lines where there should be smooth lines.

I can't believe how poor it is and I'm tempted to take advantage of the 30 day money back guarantee, but, this software has had very good reviews and I do want to make it work.

What can have gone wrong to produce such a file or is that considered 'normal'?

Thank you in advance for any replies.

I understand your disappointment with the DVD quality created in PD.
I have made several requests for Cyberlink implement the default Progressive in DVD creation.
PD, works best in progressive mode, but no use to create a MPEG2 file (Progressive) and then create the DVD in PD, it converts to Interlaced.
In order to have better quality on DVD-Video.
Whenever possible use SVRT (keeps the quality of the original SD video) is necessary to render videos use progressively, in general MPEG2 HD first and then MPEG2 (compatible with DVD)
"My PC works better and faster with HD 1280x720 video, I think to do with the video card."
I use another piece of software which works with Progressive and Interlaced video to mount DVD with menu. AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Feb 14, 2015 15:01

PlaySound, the DVD-Video standard is an interlaced-only MPEG2 format.
Some DVD players will reproduce a non-interlaced video. That has to be stored with 23.976 fps and Film Flag set.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 14. 2015 15:02

PlaySound

Senior Contributor Joined: Dec 02, 2010 10:26 Messages: 2031 Offline

Feb 14, 2015 17:48

Quote: PlaySound, the DVD-Video standard is an interlaced-only MPEG2 format.
Some DVD players will reproduce a non-interlaced video. That has to be stored with 23.976 fps and Film Flag set.

I have based on the DVD-Video that I produce, and never had a complaint.
According to the Media Info, the DVD VOB files I make some are Interlace and Progressive other on the same DVD.
In PD13 only makes DVD Interlaced.
The other piece of software which bequeaths use the Smart Encoder (SVRT) for both Progressive or interlaced files in separate titles.
Use standard NTSC, DVD-video AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Feb 14, 2015 18:13

A "progressive" NTSC DVD needs to be 23.976+Pulldown Flag (Film) to be compliant. Not an improvement at all compared to normal 60i format, unless your source is true film (at 24 fps).

PlaySound

Senior Contributor Joined: Dec 02, 2010 10:26 Messages: 2031 Offline

Feb 14, 2015 22:48

This clip shows a comparison of PD13 rendering. MPEG2 (DVD compatible) on my PC, I can not say that any other PC will do the same.

It would be good if other members make similar test and give your opinion or suggestion how to improve.

http://youtu.be/-cLg5zi6JzE

Thanks

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 17. 2015 13:28

AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate

playvideo

Newbie Joined: Oct 30, 2011 08:09 Messages: 20 Offline

Feb 16, 2015 15:46

Err...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 16. 2015 15:59

PlaySound

Senior Contributor Joined: Dec 02, 2010 10:26 Messages: 2031 Offline

Feb 16, 2015 15:57

I edited the clip to fix.
This clip shows a comparison of PD13 rendering. MPEG2 (DVD compatible).

Used bitrate 9 kbps. for video quality SD (i = Interlace / P = Progressive)

I think PD13 make deinterlace automatically when convert FullHD (i) to SD (P).

Sample, http://youtu.be/-cLg5zi6JzE

Thanks

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 17. 2015 13:35

AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate