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What video card for hardware acceleration?
[Post New]
I've just bought used PC. It is not high-end unit but still good. At least it is twice as fast as my laptop.
I think of upgrading video card to get some advantage from hardware acceleration. Nvidia NVS 285 I have got now is rather very basic one and does not allow for acceleration.

I want to be able to use HA when rendering WMV format. After reading a lot of threads on this forum about HA, I can see that there is a lot of problems with Nvidia cards as far as HA is concerned in PD. That's why I am asking. I do not want to buy a card and discover that it doesn't work!

To be clear. I want to buy used video card. Additional acceleration by 2x-4x would be good. It would give me 4x when combined with CPU speed compared to what I have now on laptop.

What kind of video card would you suggest?

(edited after Jeff's post - changed WAV to WMV)
 Filename
DxDiag.txt
[Disk]
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DxDiag
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 Downloaded:
391 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jun 19. 2014 19:16

_______________________________
regards, Tom
(PD365, Win10 Pro x64, Dell Precision T3500, Xeon W3670, 12GB, SSD)
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
[Post New]
Here's the benchmark report for your CPU:
http://tinyurl.com/krjunqy

I don't know about other brands, but I used to have an NVidia GTX 470, which I believe would bring your computer up to your CPU capability:
http://tinyurl.com/k2hejoz

However, since you are in the market for a used card, anything that's available higher than the above card would provide you with max performance for your equipment, I think. If one's available, maybe a GTX 560. I don't think I would go for a 2 GB card for your machine, as it would be overkill (if it would fit in the PCI-E slot).

I know there have been a lot of complaints about Nvidia cards on this site, but I have not had any trouble with any of mine, from the GTX 470 to the GTX 660 and now an Nvidia Quadro 1100 M on my laptop. Most of the problems I've seen are with the 700 series cards.

Hopefully some others will reply with more and better ideas for you. Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
James1
Senior Contributor Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
[Post New]
Hi Tom,
I run the Geforce 560T 1GB on my system with no problems..not the best benchmark but also no driver problems.
my system spec in signature.
Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

Visit GranPapa64's channel for your YouTube experience of the day!
borgus1 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Feb 27, 2013 00:33 Messages: 1318 Offline
[Post New]
Using a NVidia 650 here and the GPU-Z monitoring utility, I produced a one-minute piece.

With encoding OFF GPU load was zero to 1 for the duration. With it ON, load varied throughout from zero to about 57%, so HW encoding was definitely in force.

You should be able to pick up a used GTX 650 card for about $60 from eBay.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Jun 19. 2014 11:05

[Post New]
Thanks BillyR, James1 and borgus1 for reply. That's what I am looking for - live experience not guessing. You guys have much better PC specifications than mine which is one of the lower end of spectrum. But I want to do all the best of what I have now hopefully upgrading to better next.

Waiting for someone else confirming good performance with no price-killing factor..? It does not have to be Nvidia. _______________________________
regards, Tom
(PD365, Win10 Pro x64, Dell Precision T3500, Xeon W3670, 12GB, SSD)
JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline
[Post New]
Quote: I want to be able to use HA when rendering WAV format.

I assume maybe you meant WMV vs the audio format WAV?

If so, no Nvidia card currently supports HA of WMV encodings. Not the mentioned 650, 560, 550Ti, or the 470, so save your bucks.

Jeff
[Post New]
Thanks Jeff!
WMV indeed! _______________________________
regards, Tom
(PD365, Win10 Pro x64, Dell Precision T3500, Xeon W3670, 12GB, SSD)
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
[Post New]
Hmmm... I didn't notice the WAV/WMV part of the post. I've always Produced to MP4, not having taken much notice of WMV, but I did some research and experimenting with the two file types this morning. So far as I can tell, MP4 seems to be a superior format to WMV in almost every way. A search of WMV vs. MP4 will confirm this. In my case, it took almost 3 times as long to produce a WMV of a file than it did an MP4 of the same file at the same bitrate, and I can detect no difference in the quality of the two files, even when I magnify screen shots of stills from the respective files. And of course another advantage of MP4 is that you can use HA if you want to, although I never do.

So I would suggest that you consider using MP4 for the reasons above unless you have a compelling reason to use WMV.

Please send me 2¢ via FedEx ! Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
[Post New]
Here at Signature PC, now will not turn on HA for MPEG2, WMV however connects to see the screenshot.

http://youtu.be/DnzEcCnIvPo

Here the process is fast but without the use of HA, however the CPU usage goes to 100% with HA enabled reduce to 30% AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate
[Post New]
@BillyR
WMV is kind of historical for me. I want to have small filesize and maximum compatibility to share with my friends. I need to post my videos on Youtube as well. If mp4 meets those, I wouldn't argue

You all mention different kinds of cards. What are minimum requirements for it to be used by PD12 as HA? Is it specified somewhere? _______________________________
regards, Tom
(PD365, Win10 Pro x64, Dell Precision T3500, Xeon W3670, 12GB, SSD)
James1
Senior Contributor Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
[Post New]
Hi,
I upload HI def videos to YouTube quite often (directly from my PC) You Tube just takes some time to accomplish it. I 'Produce' at the highest bitrate AVHCD available and to a folder on my system for YouTube uploads and the 'viewers' can view at the resolution there system can support.
Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

Visit GranPapa64's channel for your YouTube experience of the day!
JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline
[Post New]
Quote:
You all mention different kinds of cards. What are minimum requirements for it to be used by PD12 as HA? Is it specified somewhere?

To answer your specific question,
http://www.cyberlink.com/support/product-faq-content.do?id=9970&prodId=4&prodVerId=-1

So, a Nvidie GeForce 8 series is the minimum, also somewhat documented in the PD12 specs http://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdirector-ultimate-suite/spec_en_US.html with the statement "GeForce 8500GT/9800GT and above"

Nvidia's CUDA enabled GPU's are listed here https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-gpus

I would not recommend a 8500GT but it is the minimum that will support HA per your question.

For Nvidia, HA is currently supported for:
AVC H.264
MPEG-4
MKV

If you want HA for WMV, some AMD GPU's support.

Jeff
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
[Post New]
Quote: @BillyR
WMV is kind of historical for me. I want to have small filesize and maximum compatibility to share with my friends. I need to post my videos on Youtube as well. If mp4 meets those, I wouldn't argue

You all mention different kinds of cards. What are minimum requirements for it to be used by PD12 as HA? Is it specified somewhere?
Jeff has answered your question about cards. So far as the file formats, here are those that YouTube supports:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Supported YouTube file formats

Not sure which format to save your video? Receiving an "invalid file format error message when you're uploading"?

Make sure that you’re using one of the following formats:

.MOV
.MPEG4
MP4
.AVI
.WMV
.MPEGPS
.FLV
3GPP
WebM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, MPEG4 and MP4 are among the formats supported. So far as players are concerned, I know that Windows Media Player and VLC will play MP/MPEG4s, and probably most others as well. As for file sizes, my experiments show that MP/MPEG4s are slightly smaller than WMVs, all other things being equal. Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
[Post New]
Much appreciate your answers guys!

Though I am not sure.. as you can see, requirements say "NVIDIA Quadro and Quardro Mobile" I have got Nvidia Quadro NVS 285 and still it does not allow to HA (I know, I know.. it is a very basic card)

Anyway.. you helped me a lot so I have to further investigate myself _______________________________
regards, Tom
(PD365, Win10 Pro x64, Dell Precision T3500, Xeon W3670, 12GB, SSD)
JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline
[Post New]
Quote: Much appreciate your answers guys!

Though I am not sure.. as you can see, requirements say "NVIDIA Quadro and Quardro Mobile" I have got Nvidia Quadro NVS 285 and still it does not allow to HA (I know, I know.. it is a very basic card)

Anyway.. you helped me a lot so I have to further investigate myself

As near as I can see your NVS 285 is not listed on Nvidia's site as supporting CUDA, that's probably why PD does not report it as being HA capable. The list does show the NVS 295, with 8 CUDA cores, this is essentially worthless for HA encoding by todays standards. Your Dual Xeon Dual-Core 5130 2.0GHz with CPU encoding would be much faster than a minimal NVS 295 card.

Jeff
[Post New]
@JL_JL
hmm.. I can feel I am missing something.. playsound mentioned abut only 30% of CPU load when using HA compared to 100% without HA, and now you say that NVS 295 would be slower then my PC without HA. Does it mean, that with HA on, PD relies on HA only? I thought, that HA is a kind of "helper", adding on top of CPU ability. I can feel I might be wrong.. _______________________________
regards, Tom
(PD365, Win10 Pro x64, Dell Precision T3500, Xeon W3670, 12GB, SSD)
BillyR
Senior Member Location: Southeast US Joined: Jun 19, 2013 14:33 Messages: 156 Offline
[Post New]
Quote: @JL_JL
hmm.. I can feel I am missing something.. playsound mentioned abut only 30% of CPU load when using HA compared to 100% without HA
That's not the way mine works. I just did an experiment with a 34 min. TV show that was recorded in Windows Media Center in .wtv format, and which I converted to dvr-ms prior to importing into PD12. The file size of the original was 765 MB, and after converting it to MPEG-4 at 3 Mbps using HA it was 662 MB. I did this on my desktop, an i7 950 @ 3.07 GHz with an NVidia GTX 660, and it took 1 min. 52 sec. with CPU usage about 96%. Converting the same file to the same format using the same settings but not using HA took 3 min. 34 sec. (or almost twice as long), still using about 96% of the CPU, so on my machine it definitely functions as a "helper." BTW, the MediaInfo of the HA file shows 2546 Kbps at 25 7 fps, while the readings on the non-HA file are 3002 Kbps at 29.970 with a file size of 775 MB, which what my settings were. I also think the audio/video was slightly out of sync in the HA file, which makes sense because it was rendered at 25.7 fps. These are some of the reasons I don't use HA.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jun 21. 2014 11:40

Dell Precision 7510 Laptop
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit | Intel(R) XEON(R) CPU E3-1505M v5 @2.80 GHz
RAM: 32 GB
Windows Experience Index 7.5
[Post New]
sorry, response to another topic

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jun 21. 2014 14:06

AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate
JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline
[Post New]
Quote: @JL_JL
hmm.. I can feel I am missing something.. playsound mentioned abut only 30% of CPU load when using HA compared to 100% without HA, and now you say that NVS 295 would be slower then my PC without HA. Does it mean, that with HA on, PD relies on HA only? I thought, that HA is a kind of "helper", adding on top of CPU ability. I can feel I might be wrong..

To keep things simple, if you are encoding ("Producing") a video (very few added video effects in relation to total time) HA encoding uses the GPU, non HA uses the CPU. You can see this with the basic test shown below with a very low end GPU and a fairly high end GPU tested separately in a fairly healthy CPU box.

GPU1: EVGA, GeForce 210, 16 CUDA cores, 185 Passmark G3D Mark, from http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php
GPU2: EVGA GeForce GTX580, 512 CUDA cores, 4975 Passmark G3D Mark, from http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php
CPU: i7-3770, 16GB RAM,

For the timeline I have used 10 nature sample files and put into the timeline, produce with H.264, 1920x1080, 24Mbps. I have totally removed GPU's when testing each one and used the same Nvidia driver for each.

GPU1 with CPU encoding: CPU load 95%, GPU1 load 0%, produce time 115 seconds
GPU1 with HA encoding: CPU load 5%, GPU1 load 100%, produce time 703 seconds

GPU2 with CPU encoding: CPU load 95%, GPU2 load 0%, produce time 113 seconds
GPU2 with HA encoding: CPU load 65%, GPU2 load 30%, produce time 73 seconds

Main Points:
1) As you can see, CPU encoding elapsed times are irrelevant of which GPU is in the box, both ~115 seconds. For the current PD, a GPU could assist with certain added effects that CL has HA accelerated but effects are usually a small percentage of overall timeline content. The GPU does not "help" as it was referred too.

2) CPU load during HA encoding can be rather variable, 5% load for GPU1 while 65% load for GPU2. This occurs because the CPU is still responsible for getting data too and from the GPU for the GPU to encode. A week GPU like GPU1 can not handle the data so the CPU can loaf at only 5%. However with a much improved GPU2, the CPU needs to work to keep up with it. My view, totally irrelevant what people quote for CPU % load during HA encoding. A really high CPU load just tells me you have a very good GPU in relation to the CPU. In BillyR case, one has a high end GPU in a relatively lower end box, not really a ideal situation for HA encoding, in fact with the CPU at nearly 100% for HA encoding it in fact may be limiting throughput.

Jeff


[Post New]
Jeff.. I'm impressed! Your tests and description explain a lot.

I understand, that your numbers are valid for your CPU (i7-3770). My case is more from lower end but I'll try to translate your results into my world taking into consideration BillyR numbers with his i7 950 when producing 34 min clip in 112 sec.

Maybe I am not very accurate, but taking my CPU (2x Xeon 5130), it takes +/- 1 hour to produce 1 hour clip. Yes, believe me or not, it is 1 hour! So I can assume, that any middle level video card will speed up my processing dramatically. In my case, gaining 1 hr clip produced in 10 min means 6 fold acceleration.

Am I right? _______________________________
regards, Tom
(PD365, Win10 Pro x64, Dell Precision T3500, Xeon W3670, 12GB, SSD)
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