1. Which operating system do you use, W8, W7, Vista, XP?

W7 SP1 64x

2. Which version of PDR, See Part A below

12.0.2726.0 Ultra version

3. Which SR number (available in the "About" box of PDR and is NOT the CD-Key!)

VDE140327-02

6. What anti-virus solution is installed on your PC?

Microsoft Security Essentials

7. What codec packs installed if any?

None. I use VLC.

8. What other video editing programs are installed - just in case there is a software conflict?

None

9. What burning software is installed on your PC?

ImgBurn, but I don't use it for videos

Quote: Hello,
Input : MPEG-4 file, 1920x1080, 8000kbps, 30fps. The file is about 1gb and the quality is absolutly *perfect*.
I use PowerDirector to work on this movie... add sounds, an overlay, nothing major really but it needs to recompress everything.
Output : MPEG-4 format, 1920x1080, 8000kbps, 29.97fps, progressive, high profile, CABAC, high quality with deblocking.
The produced file is awfully poor quality : When there are fast movements, *massive* blocks appear on the screen. And I often see a blur during slow movements. On top of that, the produced file is two times bigger than my original (about 2gb instead of 1)
I tried switching off the fast rendering, but no luck. I am starting to think that PowerDirector just doesn't know how to compress in MPEG-4 correctly. Is there anything I can do to fix this problem ? Can the 30fps to 29.97 convertion cause such massive quality loss ?

Quote:

1. Which operating system do you use, W8, W7, Vista, XP?

W7 SP1 64x

2. Which version of PDR, See Part A below

12.0.2726.0 Ultra version

3. Which SR number (available in the "About" box of PDR and is NOT the CD-Key!)

VDE140327-02

6. What anti-virus solution is installed on your PC?

Microsoft Security Essentials

7. What codec packs installed if any?

None. I use VLC.

8. What other video editing programs are installed - just in case there is a software conflict?

None

9. What burning software is installed on your PC?

ImgBurn, but I don't use it for videos

Hi GuillaumeF.,
Thank you for all the information you provided.
Your system is running 3xNvidia680 GPU's, right - wow.
Where are the source files located on your drives (which drives)? I like to have a lot more space on C drive for PDR when I render video.The blockiness has been associated with hardware acceleration .

Things to try:
1. Go to Preferences/Hardware/Enable hardware decoding and uncheck and do the same for OpenGL. See what effect that has on the rendering. Reverse, by checking each.
2. Make sure you have Shadow Edit files unchecked. Preferences/General/Enable HD video processing/Uncheck.
3. Reduce the project size - simply make two project files and cut each in half/quarter etc to see if by reducing the processing, the output is better.

Things to add:
a) Please can we have a 5 second sample file, this file must not be edited or processed, a capture for camera file (or directly from source).
b) If you cant do the above then please provide the media info on the video file. See Part J in the guide, http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/29701.page
Media Info is important as it'll help to create a similar mp4 template to what the original mp4 was.

There has always been a case for editing in smaller chunks and never as a "whole". When computers were less powerful and now when they have more kick. The home computer just doesn't have the number crunching capability of a multi core CPU unit and will get stressed. If you are carrying out so many changes on a large project, the same approach as used to be applied to old computers - segment your work where effects and changes are applied, render them and then bring the rendered project back together. the hope is that SVRT will render the finished smaller projects and make one completed video for you.

I edit mp4 files.

Dafydd

Hello Dafydd, thank you for your answer.

Your system is running 3xNvidia680 GPU's, right - wow.

No, actually you see three monitors, but I have only one GPU.

Where are the source files located on your drives (which drives)?

The sources are on the E: RAID-0 drive (splitting, made for speed)
The C: drive is for the software only. It's a SSD

The blockiness has been associated with hardware acceleration .

Okay, I tried disabling everything, and the problem is still there.
I tried various other formats :
- m2ts : same blockiness problem
- wmv : no problem but the produce file is even bigger
- mov : wow that didn't work at all! The result is blinking continously

I tried reducing the projet size to a simple 15s chunk, but no success : same blockiness.
It's curious because if I render the same chunk again and again, the blocks don't always appear at the same stage of the video. Sometimes I see blocks where there are no movements !

I'll try to provide a 5s unedited sample later.

Hi GuillaumeF.,
3 monitors - HDMI connection? Just a bit envious of the set up.

Please update QuickTime. That may help.
Dafydd

Three monitors, two DVI, one display port, and I also have a video projector on a fourth HDMI.
I updated Quicktime, and the MOV is still crappy quality. Not that it matters, I don't use MOV anyway. It was mostly a format test.

I did a 5 seconds shot. You can see it's a game capture.

- Game5s_original.mp4 is the result from my capture software. It's great quality and uses the NVidia encoder.
- Game5s_prod.mp4 is PowerDirector's produce file. If you pause during the movements, you'll see the quality is terrible. It can go from this exemple to much worst, sometimes the whole picture is just a patch of squares and it can take up to three seconds to recover.
- BadQualityEx.PNG is a capture of PowerDirector's produce file in one of my tests.

I tried with various FPS and configurations, they *all* create these artifacts. I think there's a bug in the H264 algorithm.

I used a trick in my videos to be able to use that SVRT, it seems to help since it doesn't recompress everything.
As long as I don't use effects, the quality remains. But I'm forced to 50 fps instead of 25, which isn't very good for my videos.

It's not a long term solution though...

Quote: I used a trick in my videos to be able to use that SVRT, it seems to help since it doesn't recompress everything.
As long as I don't use effects, the quality remains. But I'm forced to 50 fps instead of 25, which isn't very good for my videos.

It's not a long term solution though...

I had a brief look at your Game5s_original.mp4 that you had posted and it is 50fps and did not match your initial post of

Quote: Input : MPEG-4 file, 1920x1080, 8000kbps, 30fps. The file is about 1gb and the quality is absolutly *perfect*.

SVRT can only retain the same features of the original video, you are not forced to 50fps, your video is 50fps so SVRT can only output to the same specs.

Jeff

30fps / 50fps, same problem.

I use 50fps now because SVRT works only with that speed.

PowerDirector is unable to align with the other FPSes I can produce. For exemple, when I set PD to 30fps, it wants 29.97fps. But my original file is 30fps, not 29.97.

The same occur for all speeds, 24 is not 24, 25 is not 25, 30 is not 30... but 50 *is* 50. That's the only configuration which works.

The H264 compression, in all configurations, is awful. Now that I use SVRT, the difference between "before" and "after" is just terrible. During most of my video, the quality is astounding (the original), and as soon as an effect kicks in, blocks appear everywhere (PD's compression).

Hi Guillaume -

From the 50fps sample you provided I produced to the same MPEG-4 profile, using SVRT.

Aside from a slight loss of colour (saturation), it's hard to spot the difference between the original & the produced file. No blocky artifacts.

The screenshots were taken at 00:00:03:15 when there was hectic panning going on. The original is on the left - produced MPEG-4 on the right.



Cheers - Tony


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The problem doesn't come from SVRT....
The problem comes from recompression when you use effects on your movies.
Don't use SVRT for this test, it makes no sense.


On a side note, why the color difference while using SVRT ?
It's nice to try to help, but at this point I'm quite upset I spent so much money on a buggy product.

They have to fix the H264 compression algorithm.

Guillaume -

Don't use SVRT for this test, it makes no sense.

No need to get short with me. That will only limit the effort I'm prepared to make to help isolate the issue. In this thread you've given some conflicting & unclear information. It's understandable that I may have misread something!

Quote: The problem comes from recompression when you use effects on your movies.

At no time have you said which particular effects, overlays or enhancements you've applied that cause the blocky artifacts.

OK - using the sample clip, I was able to produce patches of blockiness immediately following a PiP Motion object (Action). The produced file showed no ill-effects from and FX, enhancements, transitions or animated titles I tried.

Repeating the same process using the PD/SVRT produced file (the one you told me not to make) produced no block artifacts.
Repeating the same process one of my own screen captures (Camtasia Studio) produced no block artifacts.
Repeating the same process one of my own MPEG-4 camera files produced no block artifacts.

They have to fix the H264 compression algorithm.

- THAT doesn't make sense given the information above. In all other cases, the produced files were clean.

On a side note, why the color difference while using SVRT ?

- Using SVRT doesn't cause it. Slight oss of colour can often occur when producing/rendering.

I'd suggest you might look at the settings in your screen capture software to output a higher quality. e.g. the VBR of your sample clip is only ~8MBps.

Cheers - Tony

Thank you for your answer Tony,

At no time have you said which particular effects, overlays or enhancements you've applied that cause the blocky artifacts.

*everything*. As soon as PD recompresses, you get the blocky artifacts.
Just take the video, disable SVRT, produce, you'll get blocky artifacts.

OK - using the sample clip, I was able to produce patches of blockiness immediately following a PiP Motion object (Action). The produced file showed no ill-effects from and FX, enhancements, transitions or animated titles I tried.

What about if you render it without SVRT? If you get no artifacts, then it must come from hardware acceleration. But I already tried disabling it and I seen no improvements.

- Using SVRT doesn't cause it. Slight oss of colour can often occur when producing/rendering.

In the digital era, it doesn't make sense. Colour is a precise information, it shouldn't be lost when producing.

I'd suggest you might look at the settings in your screen capture software to output a higher quality. e.g. the VBR of your sample clip is only ~8MBps.

I already tried increasing the original bps, and it changed nothing.

The sample clip is maybe only 8mbps, but its quality is perfect. When you work with good quality, you can expect the result to be good quality.


Nevermind anyway, the more I use PD the more it bothers me. It's awfully slow for everything. I often have to close and reopen it because it becomes buggy over time. The text effects can't handle more than just a few lines of text otherwise it freezes the computer for minutes. The configuration is extremly limited. And that quality problem... It's not far from being a good software, but it requires more love put into its coding.

Have a good day.

Hi GuillaumeF. ,
Just to satisfy my curiosity, are you allowing PDR12 to create Shadow Files, of your video project files?

In the Media Library, do you have a yellow or green icon in the thumbnails, or none at all?

Dafydd

Hello Dafydd,

I disabled shadow files when you told me, to test the hardware acceleration.
When I seen it didn't improve the result, I switched it on again because PD was awfully slow when moving along the timeline without it.

I had green icons in the thumbnails.

I uninstalled PD since I'm going to try other video softwares.
That way I'll be able to objectively compare them. :)

Yours

Just to share my tonight's experience (and to help), I did hours of tests with Adobe Premiere Elements 12.1

The produced files are *much* better quality than PD with the same rendering parameters.

I don't want to be a bother, but I really think PD has a bug in its H264 algorithm. It should maybe be adressed...

Guillaume -

I'm glad you're having some success with it.

I went to the bother of downloading and installing OBS (Open Broadcast Software) which is, according to MediaInfo, the capture software you're using.

With the settings at CBR 20000kbps and a few other tweaks I found online, I produced a video packed with effects, transitions, overlays etc. Produced to MPEG-4 1280x720 @ 16MBps & had no occurrence of blocky artifacts. I did find the screen capture settings a bit of a minefield.

Some of the references I used:
http://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/1262922-open-broadcaster-software
http://www.livestream101.tv/setting-up-open-broadcaster-software/
http://youtu.be/iOQm3H_qfeQ

Anyway - good luck with it.

Cheers - Tony
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Hi there.
Long time since I posted anything.... I am editing an MP4 video (star wars trailer) downloaded from the Guardian newspaper. In Power Director it reports it as

File type MP4
file size 8.34 Mb
H.264 AVC
Bitrate 710kbs
Resolution 640x360
25 fps
16:9 hi profile

On saving without any changes, the best comparable AVC or MP4 I can make in PowerDirector is

File type AVCHD
file size 36.61 Mb
H.264 AVC
Bitrate 3.21 Mbs
Resolution 720z480
28.97 fps
16:9 main profile

making an MPG output is almost exactly the same details

Seems the Guardian has a 4x better disk size result & amazing quality. But its due to the bitrate, so I would like to drop the bitrate on H264 creation but cannot see how. Any comments ?
Is there a 710kbs version I can download/obtain easily ?

If you can't solve the problem - Change the problem

Quote: Hi there.
Long time since I posted anything.... I am editing an MP4 video (star wars trailer) downloaded from the Guardian newspaper. In Power Director it reports it as

File type MP4
file size 8.34 Mb
H.264 AVC
Bitrate 710kbs
Resolution 640x360
25 fps
16:9 hi profile

On saving without any changes, the best comparable AVC or MP4 I can make in PowerDirector is

File type AVCHD
file size 36.61 Mb
H.264 AVC
Bitrate 3.21 Mbs
Resolution 720z480
28.97 fps
16:9 main profile

making an MPG output is almost exactly the same details

Seems the Guardian has a 4x better disk size result & amazing quality. But its due to the bitrate, so I would like to drop the bitrate on H264 creation but cannot see how. Any comments ?
Is there a 710kbs version I can download/obtain easily ?

Hi Ron,
Great to have you back on the forum.

Ok, First off you need to retain the same frame size and the same frame rate in my view and there isn't an avchd profile that'll give you that.
& <Class>AVCHD <Name>Ron <Description> File type MP4 file size 8.34 Mb H.264 AVC Bitrate 710kbs Resolution 640x360 25 fps 16:9 hi profile <Output FileName> <DescID>11108 <NameID>11109 <Group>2 <File Format Class>13 <Video Format Class>8 <Audio Format Class>8 <Stream Flag>3 <Field Order>1 <Attribute>10083 <Video BitRate>710000 <Min BitRate>384000 <Max BitRate>1268000 <Video Quality>0 <Video Width>640 <Video Height>360<Frame Rate>25.000000 <Profile Level>65380 <Pattern>IBBPBBPBBPBBP <Pre Processing>0 <Resize>1 <Flip Video>0 <Speed Quality Indicator>6 <Interlacing>0 <Encoder Mode>6 <App Type>2 <Dynamic GOP>0 <Deblock>1 <EntryMode>1 <Encoder Type>1 <Audio Layer>2 <Audio Mode>2 <Audio BitRate>256000 <Audio Channels>2 <Audio SamplesPerSec>1 <Audio BitsPerSample>1 <Misc>0 <SamplesPerFrame>0 &&

Insert into: C:\Users\YourComputerName\AppData\Roaming\CyberLink\PowerDirector\12.0

You might want to alter the audio as well- Use MediaInfo to check the audio requirements.

It's a rough and ready Profile.
Make sure PDR12 is closed when you insert it into Profile.ini
Dafydd

Excellent answer.
In fact <blush> I still use PDR9 most days even though I have pDR11 around.
So I had created a profile Gyaes the other night but cannot see how to edit any of the values.

Following your reply I searched the drive for profile.ini and found this below. I assume editing it manually will produce the desired bitrate/video dimensions etc
Will advise later when i get the chance to sit down.

Thanks for all your time,
Ron

&
<Class>MPEG-4 AVC
<Name>Gyaes
<Description>
Custom Profile -1Gyaes
<Output FileName>
<DescID>11922
<NameID>11923
<Group>2
<File Format Class>11
<Video Format Class>8
<Audio Format Class>10
<Stream Flag>3
<Field Order>0
<Attribute>40083
<Video BitRate>9000000
<Min BitRate>0
<Max BitRate>0
<Video Quality>0
<Video Width>1280
<Video Height>720
<Frame Rate>29.969999
<Profile Level>65357
<Pattern>IBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBP
<Pre Processing>0
<Resize>1
<Flip Video>0
<Speed Quality Indicator>6
<Interlacing>0
<Encoder Mode>0
<App Type>2
<Dynamic GOP>0
<Deblock>1
<EntryMode>1
<Encoder Type>32
<Audio Layer>2
<Audio Mode>2
<Audio BitRate>192000
<Audio Channels>2
<Audio SamplesPerSec>1
<Audio BitsPerSample>1
<Misc>0
<SamplesPerFrame>0
&&
If you can't solve the problem - Change the problem