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Deinterlacing question
dnoyeB [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Michigan Joined: Mar 05, 2013 15:40 Messages: 31 Offline
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I just found out that sadly, my Canon does not put the shooting mode on the video. So all my videos say 29.97fps because they are all formatted for 60i. Even though within they may in fact be 24p or 30p. Is there any way for me to tell what the actual hidden rate is of the video?

Also, is there a specific format deinterlacers are trying to get the data into? Are they going for 24p, or 60p, or does it not matter to them so long as it is a p? Or do they try to hit a native rate of the playback device?

Thanks!

Canon HFM301 (+wide angle lens)
Canon SD790IS
Nikon D3100
Samsung Galaxy Nexus
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
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Good grief! I just posted this exact question to the HV20-30-40 forum, with no answer. Mediainfo, a freeware, cannot tell the difference either. I'm just going to stick with 30P, unless I WANT the 60i look of video.
I am sending you the link by PM.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 13. 2013 07:56

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
Michael8511
Contributor Location: U.S.A. Indiana Joined: Jan 14, 2012 16:12 Messages: 374 Offline
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You know I have look at the samething. Now after seeing this post. I went and look at some clips out of the camera, that I shot at 24P and windows is saying 23 FPS. Media info says 23.976 FPS.

Now on one I shot at 60i windows says 29 PFS and Media Info says 29.970. I'm going to guess that being 60i I have to times that by two. Or the way 60 is scan on the screen. I think 30P is better. Intel i7 5960X overclock to 4 Ghz 16 GB of ram.
GoPro 4
Canon VIXIA HF G10
Canon EOS Rebel T3
Canon EOS 70D
My Vimeo Channel http://vimeo.com/user3339631/videos
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
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Straight out of the camera, all my files say 29.970, you must have a different model that shoots true 24P, my files don't say 24P unless they are exported by PD as such. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
dnoyeB [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Michigan Joined: Mar 05, 2013 15:40 Messages: 31 Offline
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24p is 23.976 frames per second
30p is 29.97 frames per second
60i is 59.94 fields per second. Each field is 1/2 a frame giving a final frame rate of 29.97 frames per second just like 30p.

PF30 and PF24 are shot in their respective frame rates but stored in a 60i format. So they will all say 29.97fps since that is the speed of 60i.

30p will look slower than 60i since it will capture less motion. In a way 60i is double the frame rate but 1/2 the frame resolution of 30p. I think any progressive mode will look better than interlaced when it is paused. Canon HFM301 (+wide angle lens)
Canon SD790IS
Nikon D3100
Samsung Galaxy Nexus
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
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When shooting in PF24 in a 60i, then render to 24P in PD, does PD perform the "pulldown" on it's own, or is it still a bastardized version of PF24? On other forums, the pulldown is such a big deal, and a little confusing, seems more work than it's worth. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
dnoyeB [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Michigan Joined: Mar 05, 2013 15:40 Messages: 31 Offline
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As far as I know, PD will 'deinterlace' the PF24 doing a reverse telecine. That is what I read on the forum anyway. Have not tested yet. But once done effectively you have a pure 24p video. Which is why PF24 is not so bad. The main advantage of 24p over PF24 is I believe filesize. 24p should be significantly smaller.

Whether it does this or not may be based on the format of your PD project. Again, I'm not 100%. My PD is in the dog house right now for refusing to run with 2 video cards installed >

I also forgot to add

24p typical shutter speed 1/48
30p typical shutter speed 1/60
60i typical shutter speed 1/60

So there is another difference though one can control ones own shutter speed if so desired. I think the faster shutter makes video more harsh and the slower shutter makes it more buttery Canon HFM301 (+wide angle lens)
Canon SD790IS
Nikon D3100
Samsung Galaxy Nexus
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
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All very good info.
HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
Michael8511
Contributor Location: U.S.A. Indiana Joined: Jan 14, 2012 16:12 Messages: 374 Offline
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From what I have read people use 24p to get more of a film look. A lot of them well even use a 35mm film grain effect on there video. Most of them are using DSLR cameras to shoot the video with the setting set for a flat look and color grade it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 13. 2013 14:56

Intel i7 5960X overclock to 4 Ghz 16 GB of ram.
GoPro 4
Canon VIXIA HF G10
Canon EOS Rebel T3
Canon EOS 70D
My Vimeo Channel http://vimeo.com/user3339631/videos
Jeremy [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Mar 19, 2013 10:11 Messages: 5 Offline
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Argh but what does this all MEAN?!!!

I am new. I have one set of videos from my phone that are seem to be 29.97 frames and one set from a kodak play sport that seem to be 60 frames both kick up a problem when I try to edit them saying they are not native 25 frames.

What should I do with these to make then useable, or do I just ignore this message and get on with it?
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
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Jeremy,
welcome...
Are you in PAL country, or NTSC? 25fps is a PAL configuration, your files are NTSC.
Go into PREFERENCES and change the TV format. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
Carl312
Senior Contributor Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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Quote: Argh but what does this all MEAN?!!!

I am new. I have one set of videos from my phone that are seem to be 29.97 frames and one set from a kodak play sport that seem to be 60 frames both kick up a problem when I try to edit them saying they are not native 25 frames.

What should I do with these to make then useable, or do I just ignore this message and get on with it?

You are in a PAL country (your video frame rate is 25 frames per second).

Your TV Format in Powerdirector Preferences, General tab is set to PAL or 25 Frames per second.
You have a confirmation set in preferences to warn you if the video you put on the timeline is not 25 fps. The video you imported is 30 fps, so you get the warning.

Nothing to worry about, Powerdirector can output the edited video as 25 fps.

If the warning is a bother to you, you can uncheck that warning.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Jeremy [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Mar 19, 2013 10:11 Messages: 5 Offline
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thanks that is very helpful
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
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I did not see Jeremy's locale anywhere, he may not be in a PAL place, just have the settings conflicting with the media. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
dnoyeB [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Michigan Joined: Mar 05, 2013 15:40 Messages: 31 Offline
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Jeremy, its complicated.
Different countries have different frame rates for their analog TV. Generally tied to AC or Mains frequency. North America uses ~60 fps, Europe uses around 50 fps.
Looks like your phone is shooting for NA(NTSC) but your PD is set for Europe (PAL). Canon HFM301 (+wide angle lens)
Canon SD790IS
Nikon D3100
Samsung Galaxy Nexus
Jeremy [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Mar 19, 2013 10:11 Messages: 5 Offline
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Hi sorry no enough info,

I am in the UK,

the phone is an a galaxy S3, I have no idea if I can tell it to change its format or not but some is shot by a colleage so that won't help much.

the camera is a kodak play sport. I can change the resolutions on this but they are all things like 720p etc.

what I don't understand is why I cannot edit at 30 frames. why does it insist on either PAL or NTSC. I never intend to have this released for TV. I want to put in on internet videos etc and they will be over monitors that can all cope nicely with 30-60 frames/sec and above or am I wrong?

dnoyeB [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Michigan Joined: Mar 05, 2013 15:40 Messages: 31 Offline
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Conversion between 25 and 30 won't be flawless.

PD should let you edit where you like but it should warn you. Without explanation, 30 and 60 are basically the same. Both are NTSC. Set your PD to NTSC.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 20. 2013 07:39

Canon HFM301 (+wide angle lens)
Canon SD790IS
Nikon D3100
Samsung Galaxy Nexus
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