shooting video footage

RonH

Contributor Location: Norway (from Australia) Joined: Sep 05, 2011 10:13 Messages: 364 Offline

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Dec 13, 2012 13:45

IF I AM OFF CYBERLINK TOPIC HERE THEN PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD DAFYDD.

BUT I am getting interested in shooting some video to intermix with my pics and I have no idea what product to buy for this activity. There must be a wealth of experience among our members that I could maybe tap into ( and I expect many different points of view about brands also) so here's asking

Currently I shoot some video in a limited way using my mobile phone. It does a reasonable job in good/excellent lighting conditions but is very limited in its capture capabilities across the broader range of possibilities. And we get a lot of 'low light' up here in Norway.

My needs are for something ...
- small (I already carry too much in DSLR camera gear!)
- affordable (I don't need top of the range) but I need good quality/reliability.
- easy to use in a variety of lighting conditions
- some optical zoom capabiity so this might rule out the flat pocket type with only digital zoom rubbish per my mob phone.
Though a good pixel count will permit some cropping.
- HD capability ... maybe?
- does it need to be 25fps as is PAL?
- NEW is not essential but 'as new' is.
- anything else I should consider as 'mandatory?

Usage will be 'off the cuff' holiday kind of stuff rather than for downloading to various web sites ... there is enough rubbish here without me adding to it! My PD11 activity is for fun not profit ... family dvd's covering the 'what's happened to us' year reviews, holiday's etc.

So I am hoping that a couple of our experts can guide me ... reading a few web 'reviews' clearly shows strong bias towards different handycams. And looking at product in our local shops confuses even more! Some of the models seem to have been around quite some years ... job lot buying no doubt.

If someone can give me an opinion/point me in the right direction based upon user knowledge (rather than shop sales knowledge) I would be most grateful.
Thanks in advance ... if need be I am available via PM.
Ron

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 13. 2012 14:05

CYa Ron (W10/i5gen8/Nvidia)
Someone famous once said: "We only have the 4th dimension of 'time' so that everything does not all happen at once"

stevek

Senior Contributor Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline

Dec 13, 2012 14:53

You are probably going to get as many opinions as there are camcorders !

I use an older Canon HV 30 digital tape camera that takes HD resolution tapes (1440 by 1080) and it works great ! If I were to buy another camcorder, it would be a Canon.

I also have a couple of small HD camcorders that work well if I don't want to carry around a full sized camcorder. They fit in a pocket. Their low light capabilities have much to be desired.

What is your budget?

What DSLR do you have? Some will do videos. My Nokon won't, I bought it a month before Nikon cam eout with one that did. .
.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.

Carl312

Senior Contributor Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline

Dec 13, 2012 17:04

I use a Canon Vixia HF R100 HD camera, it is small enough to fit in my pants pocket.

It weights a bit less than 12 ounces. That is with battery and SDHC card in the camera.

It shoots 1920x1080i at 17 Mbps.

Canon makes several HD cameras in the same style.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 13. 2012 17:06

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

BarryTheCrab

Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline

Dec 13, 2012 20:05

I am a Canon guy, you can get a refurb to save $$ by going straight-to-Canon. HD is ubiquitous now, forget SD
My HFM40 owns the night.
PD eats the files right up, but you need some horsies, what is your computer? HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

James Dotson

Senior Contributor Location: Tennessee Joined: Aug 24, 2009 20:40 Messages: 3066 Offline

Dec 14, 2012 01:18

I also prefer Canon, but I have borrowed a few Sony that I really liked. I am not especially impressed with Canon's low light capability, but that is just consumer grade camcorders. It's not necessarily bad, just not great. What I do really like about Canon is the ergonomics. It fits my hand and the controls are right were I need them to be. The video works well in PD, although I have an older one that only shoots 60i. Like Barry said, you will need a good computer to work with the AVCHD video. I wish they had more MPEG 2 HD options. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM

RonH

Contributor Location: Norway (from Australia) Joined: Sep 05, 2011 10:13 Messages: 364 Offline

Dec 14, 2012 05:02

Thanks for your inputs ... as a Nikon DSLR guy (pre video uptake model) I need to sleep over to adjust to the fact that all of you are Canon That has to be a strong recommendation to follow.

My laptop pc has a reasonable spec with i7, 8GB, Radeon HD 6770M and 400+ GB hard disc free space. Seems to cope OK with smartphone video, screen captures etc though if I am too hasty, PD11 can crash on me; its not a regular problem. This may not always be due to the pc of course.

Budget wise I would seek to keep within say NOK 2000 (US$350/400, UK£200/250) so I guess that I will be in the lower class of handycam ... any views about models to seriously consider at these prices? There are so many options available, even here in Norway. If I go much above this spend then I could seek to part exchange my DSLR for one with video ... not so keen on this option though. Would prefer smaller toys as I get older!

With Christmas coming and the post sales, I could perhaps pick up a good bargain early 2013. Will take time out to have a good study of options & features so that I can prepare for the 'sales pressure' when I hit the stores ... though I will have to take the odd pill to go Canon
Ron
CYa Ron (W10/i5gen8/Nvidia)
Someone famous once said: "We only have the 4th dimension of 'time' so that everything does not all happen at once"

garioch7

Senior Contributor Location: Port Hood, Nova Scotia, Canada Joined: Feb 07, 2011 06:45 Messages: 852 Offline

Dec 14, 2012 06:48

Ron:

I will put in a plug for Sony camcorders. I have owned three of them and have been very impressed with the video quality. They perform very well. PD has no problems with handling the files that the Sony camcorders produce. So, if you find a really good price on a Sony, you might want to consider it.

Just my two cents. Have a great day.

Regards,
-Phil Windows 10 Pro x64
Dell XPS 8930
Intel CoreT i7 (4.6 GHz)
32 GB DDR4-2666 RAM
1 TB PCIe -x4 SSD
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060
PD14 Ultimate x64, 4207
CD4 Ultra and AD6 Ultra
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Carl312

Senior Contributor Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline

Dec 14, 2012 10:07

I have seen many posts by people using Panasonic cameras also.

FYI, I paid a little under $400 USD for my Canon HF100 camera.
That camera is now discontinued, but the HF200 is similar.

Canon UK: Seems Canon has a completely different line for UK.
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Camcorders/High_Definition_HD/index.aspx

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

vn800rider

Senior Contributor Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1949 Offline

Dec 14, 2012 12:32

Not to add to your confusion, I have 4 Xacti HD cameras (now discontinued), from the original 1000 through to the 2000, plus an Xacti VPC that really does fit in my pocket without causing embarrassing bulges (and their associated humorous comments ). All shoot HD, the 2000 up to 1080 60p. Some of my choice was driven by shooting underwater footage and housings etc. so may be specific to me.

However, it is worth noting 2 related things :

Modern camcorders are wonderful packets of technology, all built into small lightweight packages - just right for the pocket and travelling.

They are also incredibly difficult to keep steady (no inertia) so even your pulse movement may be picked up, any zoom - optical or not - just exacerbates the issue. Panning of any sort can be a nightmare. Usually you have to resort to using any solid object nearby - trees, road signs, fences or the ground - so on an open beach, with no solid supports, remember to block off the tripod mount and any connection ports that might object to being sand filled, if you have to lie down to shoot the kids.

So 2 solutions are available :
Tripods, cam steadies etc
Good stabilisation software

If you go for the tripod, get a fluid head for the best results. I have a Manfrotto 190 with a 128 LP head, heavy and reliable, and a Velbon Ultr lux i with a FHD 52Q head which is much smaller, lighter and has travelled extensively with me.

A Gorillapod is also useful and because it's mainly plastic, it can be used underwater

I also use a mini steadycam from time to time (Hague MMC)

You might also need to check out the audio quality - it varies a lot on camcorders - especially the wind noise issue. I have a Rode Videomic pro and deadcat wind cover for higher quality shooting.

Cheers
Adrian Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

1Nina

Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline

Dec 14, 2012 13:58

Just to add a bit on “the pods”;

I have a little Manfrotto like this:http://plazacameras.com.au/images/manfrotto_585.jpg

Hand-and-chest support,(but I have often wished for 2 chest-brackets.)
However, when folded it’s small enough to fit a pocket and is an alternative
if/when travelling. Though small in size, it’s weight is 0,5 kg.

Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

stevek

Senior Contributor Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline

Dec 14, 2012 14:10

Adrian, you said that you had "4 Xacti HD cameras: I have 2; one std def, one high def.

I think that you can see similar camcroders at the Panasonic Web site. This is their waterproof offering.
http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/HX-WA2A

I find that I can hold this one much steadier than the candy bar type. I don't have a lot of issues with jerky video Maybe I'm just too old to shake!. .
.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.

vn800rider

Senior Contributor Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1949 Offline

Dec 14, 2012 16:14

My Sanyo HDs go into this housing
http://www.epoque-japan.com/e-digitalhousing-ehs1000hd.htm

Max operating depth 45m - except where it fails and writes off cameras
http://youtu.be/fvEd7qOLq50

which is fitted with this wide angle
http://www.epoque-japan.com/e-digitalhousing-ehs1000hd-2.htm

When it all works I can get this sort of thing off it.
http://youtu.be/FNcbJrQff9U

Cheers
Adrian Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

RonH

Contributor Location: Norway (from Australia) Joined: Sep 05, 2011 10:13 Messages: 364 Offline

Dec 15, 2012 04:35

Good morning from Norway where the snow just now is falling horizontally!

Thanks again for all your inputs to my quest ... a lot to read and digest.
Your comment Adrian about camera shake makes me think that I must ensure that this is an important part of my buying plan. I use this on my DSLR camera (plus trees, lamp posts and the like) and it will be even more essential shooting video.

I have searched and read about some of the cameras that you use and its clear that there are many good choices. As with the debate between Nikon and Canon DSLR users (which will go on ... ) it probably comes down to what one is comfortable with if the features are more or less the same. Will be fun making a selection.

I have listed the following ... not in any specific order and not definitely part of my buy package because I guess I would be then in the top spend bracket. But have I missed anything that I should really be concerned about ...

• Easy to use in a variety of lighting conditions
• Intelligent or Smart Auto scene selection etc.
• Fast auto focus
• Optical zoom (less than 30mm start?) Not digital unless lots of pixels available to crop
• Full HD AVCHD or MPEG2 (new AVCHD Progressive format?)
• Optical Image Stabilisation rather than digital
• Tripod Mount
• Still Photography
• Stereo Sound
• Flash Memory
• Battery life

Thanks again
Ron

CYa Ron (W10/i5gen8/Nvidia)
Someone famous once said: "We only have the 4th dimension of 'time' so that everything does not all happen at once"

RonH

Contributor Location: Norway (from Australia) Joined: Sep 05, 2011 10:13 Messages: 364 Offline

Dec 16, 2012 08:55

Having now spent quite some time researching various camcorders I have come across this model:

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/cam-high-definition-on-memory-stick/hdr-cx250e/reviews#tab

A professional camera shop here in Oslo http://www.fotovideo.no/Produkter/Videokamera.aspx has some on order and the price seems to be very competitive for the features it offers. It seems it is a 'last years model', stocks I guess being offloaded by Sony. Would this be a good choice?
Phil, you plugged Sony, have you experience of this model?
Ron CYa Ron (W10/i5gen8/Nvidia)
Someone famous once said: "We only have the 4th dimension of 'time' so that everything does not all happen at once"

garioch7

Senior Contributor Location: Port Hood, Nova Scotia, Canada Joined: Feb 07, 2011 06:45 Messages: 852 Offline

Dec 17, 2012 12:36

Ron: No, I have no experience with that model. My Sony camcorder is an HDR-XR500V.

http://store.sony.com/p/HDR-XR500V/en/p/HDRXR500V

It is no longer for sale, but you might be able to pick one up on ebay, in used condition. I have been very happy with this camcorder and my previous two Sony camcorders.

Have a great day.

Regards,
-Phil Windows 10 Pro x64
Dell XPS 8930
Intel CoreT i7 (4.6 GHz)
32 GB DDR4-2666 RAM
1 TB PCIe -x4 SSD
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060
PD14 Ultimate x64, 4207
CD4 Ultra and AD6 Ultra
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RonH

Contributor Location: Norway (from Australia) Joined: Sep 05, 2011 10:13 Messages: 364 Offline

Dec 17, 2012 13:31

Thanks Phil,

I think I will settle for the CX250E ... a last year's model from Sony, new at less than half price of its current replacement which has a very similar spec. I am a newbee at this video stuff apart from using a smart phone and many years ago the 'super 8' films so I reckon that this mid range consumer model will do me proud and if not then I can trade up.
Ron CYa Ron (W10/i5gen8/Nvidia)
Someone famous once said: "We only have the 4th dimension of 'time' so that everything does not all happen at once"

RonH

Contributor Location: Norway (from Australia) Joined: Sep 05, 2011 10:13 Messages: 364 Offline

Dec 19, 2012 10:55

Just to finish this thread ...couldn't wait til post-Christmas and purchased the Sony HDR-CX250E camcorder at less than 50% of the price of its replacement plus an additional 'cashback' from Sony.

My first impressions are very good stabilisation and picture quality, including jpeg. I think that I will use it for 'snap' pictures from time to time to save dragging around the DSLR. Zoom mic is effective with little camera noise which if necessary I reckon can be edited out using Audio Director.

I shall have some fun

Thanks for your guidance
Ron
CYa Ron (W10/i5gen8/Nvidia)
Someone famous once said: "We only have the 4th dimension of 'time' so that everything does not all happen at once"

stevek

Senior Contributor Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline

Dec 19, 2012 16:15

Great. Remember to let us know when you have some things uploaded to YouTube so we can see your handiwork.

Happy Holidays ! .
.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.