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New Computer Build, Video card ?
pcporemba16 [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Union, NJ Joined: Oct 22, 2012 14:38 Messages: 11 Offline
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Looking to build up a new system and had a question about which video card(s) to select. In the past I've been used Nvidia cards and have liked them so far. I'm looking into selecting two cards (not running them in SLI, right?) and was wondering about how much is enough and when do I hit overkill. Looking at the GTX-650ti, GTX-660 or the GTX-660ti. Prices range from 175 to 345 and cuda cores are: 768, 960, and 1344 for the 660ti. I read that Photoshop only uses a small portion of the cuda cores so most of them are wasted. Any thoughts would be welcome.

BTW, saw the warning about Nvidia drivers and I'm assuming that will all be worked out
James1
Senior Contributor Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
I have a Intel i7 2600@3.4Gh processor and 12GB memory with the Geforce 560ti 1GB mem and have very few problems..but use the 301.42 driver till patch released.
You didn't mention the processor you going to use. Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

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pcporemba16 [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Union, NJ Joined: Oct 22, 2012 14:38 Messages: 11 Offline
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Looking at a Gigabyte MB GA-Z77X-UP7, I7-3770k, 2x8g 1866 memory, SSD boot drive and 2 1T WD blacks in raid 0.
James1
Senior Contributor Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
There have been a lot of discussion here on the use of SSD drives having issues, as the sizes of them aren't big enough as yet...because PD11 Ultimate/Ultra require 100GB free space on C drive for 'caching' and after you get your 'Programs and windows installed on the drive not enough space left.
Although this has been discussed and there are people who have success they are few and far between.
Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

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pcporemba16 [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Union, NJ Joined: Oct 22, 2012 14:38 Messages: 11 Offline
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I currently have 2 systems with the OS/program on SSD drives. I move all storage and cache to the spinner RAID 0 drive(s). Both systems use 128g ssd's and the one I'm on now still has 61g free. It has photoshop CS6, Photoshop Elements 10, Premiere elements 10 along with MS Office and my accounting software installed. Those systems are running 920 & 930 cpu's and are overclocked. The 930 (the one at home) has been running @ 4.1 for about a year now. I'm currently using Power Director 10 but plan on upgrading to 11 very soon. My system at home has all the Cyberlink software. With the current price of around $160 for a Crucial M4 256g I plan on the next build to have the extra room I might need.
James1
Senior Contributor Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
Don't get me wrong on SSD drives...I am just saying there have been a lot of problems reported here on the use of SSD drives. I have a 1.5 terabyte as c drive and two USB 1.5 terabyte drives and am quite happy. Maybe some one with successful use of SSD drives will chime in.
Jim
p.s running windows 7 premium...my experience index is 7.7,7.7,7.8,7.8 and 5.9 for hard drive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 22. 2012 16:43

Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

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Cap'n Kevin
Senior Contributor Location: Chebeague Island, Maine Joined: Dec 26, 2008 20:22 Messages: 2011 Offline
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I have been using a Corsair Force Series GT 180 GB SSD for some time without issue running PD10 and PD11. I have 76.4 GB of free space and am able to run PD with complex timelines without problems. I routinely import 45 GB BluRay video files for editing from an internal hard drive. I can edit it and then burn to another BluRay disc using the Create Disc function without any issues. I have found the SSD drive to offer many benefits. I have no regrets making the transition to a SSD drive.

Just my personal experience.

Your personal experience may vary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 22. 2012 17:42


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pcporemba16 [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Union, NJ Joined: Oct 22, 2012 14:38 Messages: 11 Offline
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So, getting back to the video card question. Two GTX-650ti's should be plenty, right? Anyone know how many Cuda cores PD11 uses?
Cap'n Kevin
Senior Contributor Location: Chebeague Island, Maine Joined: Dec 26, 2008 20:22 Messages: 2011 Offline
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Quote: So, getting back to the video card question. Two GTX-650ti's should be plenty, right? Anyone know how many Cuda cores PD11 uses?


PD11 will not use two video cards as far as I know. You will only see activity in one card. This includes SLI and CrossFired configurations only. The second card will not be utilized when editing or producing with Power Director.

This has been my personal observations. Other users may offer different results.
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James1
Senior Contributor Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Joined: Jun 10, 2010 16:20 Messages: 1783 Offline
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Hi,
glad to see Captain Kevin chime in with some info on SSD drives...I was basing my opinions on previous posts on them.
My system uses all 8 cores but varies on the complexity of the project...I have only observed under two projects tho'...on my system a DVD standard hi def 1920x1080 project on a DL disk all cores are used (but at varying degrees) and it takes 35(+ minutes to burn to a folder.
Then I use a 3d party to burn that folder to a DL dvd.
Jim Intel i7-2600@3.4Gz Geforce 560ti-1GB Graphic accelerator, windows 7 Premium 12GB memory

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Cap'n Kevin
Senior Contributor Location: Chebeague Island, Maine Joined: Dec 26, 2008 20:22 Messages: 2011 Offline
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Hard to say James what the root cause of other users utilizing SSD drives that experienced problems. But you are right there were some that had issues.

The "only" way to employ multiple GPU encoding that I am aware of is if you use a CPU with integrated graphics like Ivy or Sandy bridge. Then Power Director will utilize the CPU integrated graphic capability plus the separate video card that you have installed. This is new for PD11.
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pcporemba16 [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Union, NJ Joined: Oct 22, 2012 14:38 Messages: 11 Offline
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To quote Cyberlink:
Redefine Speed – TrueVelocity™ 3 with Multi-GPGPU Acceleration

TrueVelocity™ technology is unparallel when it comes to speed. In PowerDiretcor 11, the new 64-bit TrueVelocity® 3 engine now supports multi-GPGPU, and incorporated with OpenCL and 64-bit support, PowerDirector 11 provides 38% faster speed compared to version 10. You can maximize performance from multi-graphic cards installed on computers and optimize editing, rendering and video effects processing speeds.


This is why I wanted two video cards. From what I read in another post you can't run them in SLI otherwise PD11 see them as 1 card. Some one else mentioned you could use the intergrated graphics on the I7-3770 (HD4000) as the "other" GPU. Just read a review on Tomshardware about the GTX-650ti and it appears the GTX-660 would be better. Just not sure it it's $55.00 (per card) better.
jerrys
Senior Contributor Location: New Britain, CT, USA (between New York and Boston) Joined: Feb 10, 2010 21:36 Messages: 1038 Offline
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I'll pitch in my two cents worth about SSD drives.

What you get from using an SSD drive is speed: there's no seek time, no rotational latency, no need for a buffer.

What you give up is size (and money, but that's another story).

The whole issue therefore derives from the question "When does speed count"? Like any decent OS , Windows has a memory manager capable of keeping frequently used pages in memory. When a program is running, the most frequently accessed pages are the program's code. Unless the system's memory is really overcommitted, running code should never be removed from memory.

What does move in and out is data. Some of this is data stored within the program itself. The memory manager typically has no idea how (in what pattern) internal data structures are going to be accessed. It tries to keep them all in memory, if possible, and if not then it (probably) prefers to keep the most recently used pages in memory.

That leaves the data external to the program: files. Some amount of memory will be reserved for file buffering. (Note that one of the settings for Windows is whether or not the system is primarily a server. That changes how this is handled.) Various operating systems use different algorithms (sometimes multiple algorithms) to optimized file access.

  • If the system decides that you are sequentially reading a file, it will pre-fetch stuff so that your program's appetite will be satisfied.
  • If you are writing a file there's nothing for it but to follow along, using delayed physical write operations so that your program doesn't have to wait.
  • If you are randomly reading a file, then there's no good way the system can pre-fetch your data so that is likely to be the slowest operation of all.

  • Getting back to SSD drives, you want to use them where their speed will do the most good. That means you want to attack your biggest bottleneck: random access to data files. That's why, IMNSHO, you don't want to use an SSD for your C: drive unless it is big enough to hold everything. If it isn't, use it as the place to keep your data files and the Windows virtual memory file. That might be rather restrictive, but it will give you the best bang for the buck.

    As I've mentioned before, you can use symbolic links to relocate any folders you like without your programs knowing or caring.

    There's one further point: I don't think file access is the real bottleneck for PD. I think it is generally the CPU. If anyone has done any tests, I'd be interested in hearing about them. Jerry Schwartz
    Cap'n Kevin
    Senior Contributor Location: Chebeague Island, Maine Joined: Dec 26, 2008 20:22 Messages: 2011 Offline
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    Quote: To quote Cyberlink:
    Redefine Speed – TrueVelocity™ 3 with Multi-GPGPU Acceleration

    TrueVelocity™ technology is unparallel when it comes to speed. In PowerDiretcor 11, the new 64-bit TrueVelocity® 3 engine now supports multi-GPGPU, and incorporated with OpenCL and 64-bit support, PowerDirector 11 provides 38% faster speed compared to version 10. You can maximize performance from multi-graphic cards installed on computers and optimize editing, rendering and video effects processing speeds.


    This is why I wanted two video cards. From what I read in another post you can't run them in SLI otherwise PD11 see them as 1 card. Some one else mentioned you could use the intergrated graphics on the I7-3770 (HD4000) as the "other" GPU. Just read a review on Tomshardware about the GTX-650ti and it appears the GTX-660 would be better. Just not sure it it's $55.00 (per card) better.


    If you get the two graphic cards to work please let us know in the forum how it works. I don't believe that two of the same card installed in a PC when they are not configured in SLI or CrossFire will leverage the new TrueVelocity 3 technology. I might be wrong but maybe someone with some actual experience using two identical cards can add some expertise and personal experience.

    If you use the I7-3700(HD4000) as the other GPU with the GTX-650ti, then from what I understand this combination will work together.
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    PD11 uses "Multi-GPGPU Acceleration " and I believe this means it will use one discrete card GPU in combination with on-board GPUs leveraging technologies like Intel quick-sync, ivy-bridge and sandy-bridge for CERTAIN video file production formats only...just my understanding as I am NOT Cyberlink. Sure would be nice to KNOW how PD11 uses memory and paging, etc....but I have never seen a white-paper (Note - I am willing to sign a NDA Cyberlink!)

    SSD versus spinning-platter, consider that some USB flash memory drives are faster than others (Class4 versus Class10), so price MATTERS when you pay for SSD, pay less, get less performance and reliability.

    SSDs suffer when writing and rewriting to fragmented memory so programs that build large temporary files during operation (like Powerdirector and OTHER NLE programs) create a condition that will degrade SSD performance via fragmenting and causing failures of specific memory "locations" on the drive.

    I can't dig out the old white-papers that made me come to this conclusion 3 years ago (Somewhere on a 2TB spinning data drive I think), so PLEASE, just consider this one man's OPINION of a POSSIBILITY to add to your CONSIDERATION and not hard fact!!

    Hopefully this will add to the knowledge, and not create flames or crisis.

    This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Oct 22. 2012 22:02

    djmorgan
    Senior Member Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Oz. Joined: Mar 09, 2007 07:07 Messages: 233 Offline
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    There are so many half truths and personal beliefs here that I can see you buying a shoe box with a hole in it.

    Firstly if your building or buying a computer for serious video editing then your in the wrong place and won't find the equipment needed in a PC store.

    PD in all it's versions is a 'consumer' piece of software, good, but not mainstream professional, your not going to make a theatre going movie with it. and if your business is churning out wedding DVDs or volume corporate promo discs you are going to get grey very early.

    So get a computer that suits your needs based on what you want it to do, gaming, many rigs will play games well and also handle PD11.
    Photography you don't really need high end hardware but you do need good software and should follow the recommendations of Adobe etc, that rig will also handle PD11 adequately.
    Admin, calculating, Accounting you can probably do this now on your smart phone.

    Facts I know from personal experience, SLI is gaming orientated, as is AMD equivalent, you won't see any marked improvement in processing time, SSDs are great but only use it for your OS and get SATAIII with mobo to suit, internal HDD's are then necessary again get SATAIII and high spin rate at least 7k+ again mobo to suit.
    Invest in NAS or other high speed external backup to protect your work..... backup at the max weekly. 64 bit is faster than 32 bit

    Good luck with your quest but suggest you frequent some of the tech sites and mobo manufacturers forums.

    David Windows 7 X64 SP1
    ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA1366 X58
    Intel core I7 950 3.80 GHZ CPU
    12Gb Corsair TR3X3G1600C8D Tri channel
    Corsair H70 Water cooling
    Corsair HX1000W PSU
    nVidia GTX 980
    Intel 240Gb SSD 520 Series
    2 x Seagate 1 Tb
    [Post New]
    David;
    I have USED a shoebox with a hole in it to create a pinhole camera and for viewing solar eclipses...but I never considered it for doing the complex processing that is HD video production.
    [Post New]
    if you are going to use HW encode with VGA, AMD has better capability.
    nVidia can accelerate with H.264 only, AMD can do H.264, WMV9 and MPEG2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    PowerDirector 365
    jerrys
    Senior Contributor Location: New Britain, CT, USA (between New York and Boston) Joined: Feb 10, 2010 21:36 Messages: 1038 Offline
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    Quote: David;
    I have USED a shoebox with a hole in it to create a pinhole camera and for viewing solar eclipses...but I never considered it for doing the complex processing that is HD video production.

    For complex processing you need a camera obscura. As you pointed out, a shoebox pinhole camera doesn't have enough power.
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