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Rendering quality with Sony camcorders
Peter100 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Nov 08, 2011 22:24 Messages: 26 Offline
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I had high hopes for PD 10 but after rendering a short move from my Sony HDR–CX500V camcorder using a trial version of PD 10 got very disappointing results. Rendering to 1080i using PD10 AVCHD pre-set, produces short "comb looking" lines around moving objects in a frame. It almost looks like one of the interlaced fields was missing around those moving parts of a picture. Rendering to 1080p produces very choppy (not smooth at all) video. Rendering with MPG4 gives good smoothness but “muddy” picture quality. So far I was not able to find any rendering settings (including custom) that would produce video of the same or close quality as source clips. I am just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same rendering problem with PD 10 and Sony HD NTSC 1080i AVCHD camcorders?

p.s.
My camcorder records in NTSC 1080/60i MPEG4 AVC/H264 AVCHD at 17 Mpbs with Dolby Digital 2ch/5.1ch


Peter100
Andrew - Wales, UK
Contributor Location: Wales, UK Joined: Jan 27, 2009 19:16 Messages: 545 Offline
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Hi,

Can I suggest in 'Produce' you use

H.264 -> AVCHD 1920x1080 and select SVRT.

That should match the settings of your footage and give you the output you are looking for.

Cheers

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 09. 2011 04:43

Alienware Aurora ALX R4 - Intel i7-4820 4.2 GHz - 32GB DDR3 RAM - Crucial 512GB SSD - 1TB Seagate HDD - 3TB WD Green HDD - 4TB WD Green HDD - MSI NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB

Sony HDR-PJ810 and HDR-PJ530
Peter100 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Nov 08, 2011 22:24 Messages: 26 Offline
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SVRT is disabled in trial version so I cannot try it. I am just afraid that even if SVRT was enabled, it would at best provide matching quality for unaltered cuts, but the problem would remain for rendered portions of a move such as transitions etc. This is why I posted on this forum to find out if anyone having full version of PD10 and camera recording in same format has the same problem. I do not want to buy the program to just find out that it doesn’t work for me.

Peter100
All vodi
Senior Contributor Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline
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Peter,

I've used two different Sony camcorders, always AVCHD 1920x1080i (NTSC) footage and have had excellent results. You do not have to use the SVRT setting as Andrew suggested - your PC will produce the video very well, albeit a tad slower. My rendering is always to AVCHD 1920x1080i-24 mbps with near perfect results. So don't give up, it should work. Send us your DXdiag file so that we can see what type of environment your PD10 is running. Win 10, i7
Peter100 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Nov 08, 2011 22:24 Messages: 26 Offline
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To better describe the problem I am experiencing, please have a look at attached two screen shots.
First one is from original clip.
Second one is from clip rendered by PD10 to AVCHD 1080i.
Both images are 100% crops from the 1920x1080 screen shot taken when playing files with Windows media player.
I get the same results when I watch the files on BD player +TV.

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Robert2 S
Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Apr 22, 2009 05:57 Messages: 1461 Offline
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I don't have much experience with interlaced video but try in the preferences to produce the file to progressive instead of interlaced.

I thought there was also somewhere you can change the field order when using interlaced video. My youtube channel====> http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2?feature=mhsn
andrew3202 [Avatar]
Newbie Location: indiana Joined: Sep 29, 2011 22:10 Messages: 24 Offline
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I have a well equipped workstation, and my camera is a Canon Vixia HFM31, recording at 1440 x 1080 in it's standard mode,

I had similar results on a fast moving scene, and if you want to exacerbate the issue, create a SLIDE show using the outer space template. H.264, and MPEG2 were the worst, so I tend to use MP4 compression.

Watching MPEG2 and H264 footage on a fast acting, high refresh monitor and card, it's more obvious than watching from a DVD and lower response digital TV...

All vodi
Senior Contributor Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline
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Peter,

WMP can produce the interlace problem you see (as per your attachment) depending on the codecs that are loaded with your PC. You should try to play the file back using the media player within PD10 with the HD setting selected. I don't believe that you'll see the interlaced lines.

Can you post a short (1 minute) video sample for us to try ? Win 10, i7
Peter100 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Nov 08, 2011 22:24 Messages: 26 Offline
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Thank you for all the comments and suggestions.

Perhaps I should mention at the beginning of my post that final video quality is the most important aspect of my editing. Ideally I want my clips to be process in original format without need for recompressing. I want only the portions requiring rendering such as transitions, titles etc. to be rendered with equally good quality. That is why I am interested in SVRT. Having said this, I understand that the portions of a move requiring rendering will still need to be process using some sort of recompression and compression process. That is why I was trying to evaluate what is the quality of that process in PD10 and compare it to the original clip. I can see by using a trail version, that there is a huge lose in quality of rendered material. This prompted me to ask full version users if they have the same issue.

I attached 2 short clips from my camera with lots of movements. If anyone can assemble a short move from it (use the same clips multiple times and create transitions, cuts etc.) then use SVRT or render to AVCHD H264 1920x1080 60i with preferably 17Mbps and let me know if the results are as smooth as original with good video details retention and uninterrupted 5.1 surround sound, I would greatly appreciated.

I realize that I can re-render entire move to different format, bit rate etc., but to me it means loss of quality no matter how good the re-rendering process is. Beside I am really interested in two output formats AVCHD H.264 1920x1080 60i (which is my original camera format) or the same but at 60p. Lower frame rates such as 24p or 30p do not provide smooth enough movements for me.

Lastly just two comments for Hdedit
1. Watching rendered clips on my TV shows the same poor quality result, therefore I do not believe it is a Windows/codec/PC issue.
2. What model of Sony camcorders do you have and what format /Mbps they are recording at?

Regards,
Peter100
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Robert2 S
Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Apr 22, 2009 05:57 Messages: 1461 Offline
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Just a question Peter why do you shoot in interlaced when progressive would solve all your combing issues during movement. My youtube channel====> http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2?feature=mhsn
Andrew - Wales, UK
Contributor Location: Wales, UK Joined: Jan 27, 2009 19:16 Messages: 545 Offline
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Hi,

I'm pretty sure that the Sony-HDRCX500V doesn't shoot in progressive unlike the 2011 range of Sony camcorders that shoot in 50i, 25p and 50p.

I've tested the SVRT feature extensively with PD10. There are some bugs but from the projects I've produced using it I have been very pleased.

If you plan to encode your entire project then, as I mentioned before, use h.264->1920x1080 - with or without GPU acceleration.

I think the basic message to maintain quality as best as possible is churn out what you put in. Your camera shoots in 1920x1080 h.264 so that should be the format of choice to produce in to maintain quality.

Cheers,

Andrew

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 11. 2011 05:28

Alienware Aurora ALX R4 - Intel i7-4820 4.2 GHz - 32GB DDR3 RAM - Crucial 512GB SSD - 1TB Seagate HDD - 3TB WD Green HDD - 4TB WD Green HDD - MSI NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB

Sony HDR-PJ810 and HDR-PJ530
[Post New]
I also have a Sony camcorder and had the same problems with the trial version of PD10. I went ahead and got the purchased version and lo and behold, it works perfectly. Get great video when I produce. Haven't had a glitch with 10 since I got it about a month ago. Have done a about 5 videos (the largest being about an hour and a quarter) and am really happy with all the results. I am pretty sure that there are a lot of features missing in the trial version that are in the purchased version.
LAURENT 57 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Nov 21, 2011 14:02 Messages: 1 Offline
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pour moi ça ne marche pas j'ai le probleme identique image entrelassée ou floue camescope sony hdr -cx116E
qui peut m aider merci
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