Sony DSC HX9V 1080p 50 editing and producing with PD9 and displaying on PS3

MateuszPK

Newbie Location: Warsaw, Poland Joined: Jul 20, 2011 18:29 Messages: 14 Offline

Solved by

Aug 02, 2011 17:26

Hello, this is my first post here. First of all let me tell that I am very impressed with the competent and helpfull discussions going on in this forum (just the opposite to the "support" offered by cyberlink) .
I have had numerous problems when editing and producing AVCHD from my Sony SONY DSC-HX9V in full hd 50p.
Below I will describe the issues and the solution. There is one issue which still remains unresolved and I hope to find an answer to this.

Issue and Solution #1 The PD9 build 2930 hung repeatedly when editing and producing the 1080/50P.
The PD9 build 2930 hung repeatedly when editing and producing the material. In fact I could not produce more than 8% of my project; sometime a message "front end graph streaming error occured" appeared.
Solution: I had to go back to build 2330a to avoid this. In my case the problems started with build 2504 and the following including the latest to date 2930. On the forum I have found a better solution which works with all builds including 2930 which is to disable both hardware acceleration options in preferences and not use it during production. After doing this the PD9 stopped to crash with all build including 2930.

Issue and Solution #2 PS3 does not read 1080/50p H.264 files produced with PD9
The solution is to use FixPD9 with the H.264 file which is transformed to a format recognized by PS3. The solution is described here http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/17145.page#86779. I have also tried to use MPEG4 .mp4. This format is recognized by PS3 right away but it is not played properly - it is played as if in slow motion. By the way the original AVCHD files play perfectly well and look great on PS3. I have disabled the 3 "image improvement" options on the PS# whichh slow down the playback.

Issue and Solution #3 How to transfer a large file (more than 4 GB) form a PC to PS3?
PS3 only supports FAT32 file system (not NTFS) so the file size on pendrive is limited to 4GB. My movie is 8GB so I had to stream it through a WI-FI by using mediaserver. Windows Media Center 11 is not good for this purpose since it does not support many file formats - I use TVersity and it works very well. By the way: I have read opinions that PS3 can not read mp4 or H.264 read files larger than 4GB - this is not true my 8GB file is played by PS3, you just need to stream it.

ISSUE #4 STILL UNRESOLVED - the picture quality of the H.264 files produced by PD9 is inferior to the original AVCHD. The image is not that crisp and the motion is visibly less fluid which is a major problem. I have used the advices posted on the forum and changed the Profile.ini file to increase the bitrate to ca. 26 -28M/s/ The setting are 50 frames, progressive, high profile, CABAC, 25300000 bitrate (26000000 max bitrate), slider to maximum quality. I also can not find the right settings to activate the SVRT function.
I have noticed that the video quality produced with GPU acceleration is inferior and I am not using it.

I would be grateful for and advice how to achieve best quality when producing. After all the reason to purchase a camera or camcorder able to record 1080/50P is to have the best picture quality.

Filename	DxDiagMateuszPK.txt	Download
Description
Filesize	50 Kbytes
Downloaded:	419 time(s)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Aug 07. 2011 16:49

Dafydd B

Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline

Aug 03, 2011 04:33

Hi,
Please attach a 5 to 10 second video sample file from your camera - unedited.

Please provide the profile.ini changes, copy'n'paste to a text file and then attach the text file. Note the profile starts with a single "&" and finishes with "&&".

MateuszPK

Newbie Location: Warsaw, Poland Joined: Jul 20, 2011 18:29 Messages: 14 Offline

Aug 03, 2011 15:44

Hi,
I attach a short unedited video and my profile file. I am using the last setting " Custom Profile -5"
Thanks in advance!
Mateusz

Filename	20110702154547.m2ts	Download
Description	Original file 1080 50p form Sony DSC-HX9V
Filesize	43296 Kbytes
Downloaded:	378 time(s)

Filename	profileMAteuszPK.txt	Download
Description	profile.ini MateuszPK
Filesize	6 Kbytes
Downloaded:	470 time(s)

Dafydd B

Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline

Aug 04, 2011 03:36

Hi,

I'm waiting for the file to download.

What results did you achieve with that profile?
As far as my earlier tests went 50fps will not work. the custom5 profile will not be "seen" in PAL settings or NTSC. You need to drop it to 25fps. Do that and then re-test.

You've now set beyond the SVRT range (I'm guessing) and I doubt it will be of any use. But don't let that stop you trying.

When I have 5 minutes, I'll look at this some more with the video file.

MateuszPK

Newbie Location: Warsaw, Poland Joined: Jul 20, 2011 18:29 Messages: 14 Offline

Aug 04, 2011 04:01

I will reply with more details later on. My goal is to produce in best quality achievable, ideally the same as the original file (SVRT?). When reading the forum I found posts of Panasonic camcorder users recording in same quality saying that after tweaking the profile.ini they enable the SVRT mode. I couldn't - hopefully you will succeed!

pjc3

Senior Member Location: Australia Joined: May 29, 2010 19:33 Messages: 247 Offline

Aug 04, 2011 23:07

Hi MateuszPK,

I am sorry to hear you are having troubles with your 108p50 files, because it seems you have done all the right things to get PD to perform as I know it can.

To give you my experience:

I downloaded your file.
I created a modified profile and rendered using both CPU and GPU (they produce different files).
I used another (unmentionable) programme to pull individual full frames as bitmap and png from the original and rendered files.
Comparing these images I could see a slight "softening" in the rendered frames but it was very subtle. Generally it was comparable to my previous results using Pana TM700 1080p60 files.

I ran the rendered files through Nathan's header cleaner.

I watched all files (original, rendered, cleaned) back to back on a Panasonic 50GT30 plasma using Dune mediaplayer set to 1080p 50Hz. All files looked identical in motion and resolution. Silky smooth.

So in summary, my testing produced results which I would consider excellent.

Differences to your setup:
I have a Nvidia card. I have a Q9550 processor. I have a Dune mediaplayer. Not sure where the problem lies with you.

Sorry not to have been much help.

Regards

PS: I could not tweak the profile to get SVRT to work, unlike the Pana 1080p60 files. Interestingly, I could never get my Pana SD9 to work with SVRT even with the parameters set adequately. I suspect the AVCHD profile in the files is just different enough for PD not to recognise them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 04. 2011 23:09

Panasonic SD9, Panasonic TM700, Panasonic SD600, GoPro HD Hero.

MateuszPK

Newbie Location: Warsaw, Poland Joined: Jul 20, 2011 18:29 Messages: 14 Offline

Aug 05, 2011 16:09

Hi,
always look at the bright side! It is good to know that the desired result can be achieved. Can you please advise me on the following:
1) what profile settings did you use - please copy the profile set up for me to paste in profile.ini and try it out
2) settings of PD9
- do I need to turn the "Reduce the video blocky artifacts" on or off when editing/producing in full hd?
- "Enable hardware decoding" - does it influence in any way the quality or just the speed?
- allow SVRT on a single .... on or off?
- why if I turn off enable hardware video decoding in the preferences this option is still active in the produce window? Does it activate something else?
3) The process of pulling the frames and then "cleaning" (I do not know what does it mean) - what was the purpose of it? I understand that you can compare individual frames to scrutinize the quality but what is the purpose of pulling them back together?
4) In order to compare the quality of the clips produced by PD9 and the original AVCHD I will connect the PC to my Samsung 50 inch plasma (you can see the differences much clearer than on a monitor) and will bypass the possible influence of the FixPD9 and the PS3. But having said that:
- from your experience does the FixPD9 influence the quality in any way?
I am quite optimistic becouse I understand that NVIDIA and ATI can render differently (and will turn the GPU acceleration off) but two modern Intel processors should produce the same results.

I will also be happy to see what other users can say about my questions.
Thank you!

pjc3

Senior Member Location: Australia Joined: May 29, 2010 19:33 Messages: 247 Offline

Aug 05, 2011 17:43

Hi MateuszPK

1.

2.
Reduce blocky Artifacts off
Hardware decoding is for GPU playback (unlike GPU encoding which is for rendering)
I have single IDR H.264 checked (but still couldn't get SVRT to work for your file)
As above decoding is opposite of encoding.

3.
Sorry I wasn't too clear here. I rendered the files and then ran the files through the header cleaner (this just rewrites the files with the correct information so the end mediaplayer (PS3) recognises the video properly). This is Nathan's FixPD9 script. I pulled a couple of representative frames out as bitmaps to compare the video rendering with regards to blocking artifact, blurring or softening, de-interlacing artifacts (not relevant in this case) etc etc. This only gives some of the answers as motion picture is quite different from still frames but can help pin down where the problems lie.

4.
The fixPD9 (as I call header cleaner) allows the files to be recognised correctly by the mediaplayers. Dune handles the files anyway but PS3 is more fussy. My CPU (ie PD9) writes a file which results in the profile level being written as 5.1 (which it is obviously is not) and fixPD9 rewrites it back to 4.2. GPU rendered files do not have this problem (for Nvidia card with a specific driver which is not the current one!!

) So there are many variables to contend with. Panasonic SD9, Panasonic TM700, Panasonic SD600, GoPro HD Hero.

MateuszPK

Newbie Location: Warsaw, Poland Joined: Jul 20, 2011 18:29 Messages: 14 Offline

Aug 05, 2011 18:15

Thanks a lot. I will use the settings. Certainly I have never set the bitrate that high. A quick question - what is the "dynamic GOP" setting for? In my profiles it is 0 in yours it is 1.

MateuszPK

Newbie Location: Warsaw, Poland Joined: Jul 20, 2011 18:29 Messages: 14 Offline

Aug 07, 2011 15:17

Mission completed! I have managed to produce without using SVRT some great looking 1080 50P movies which can played back on a PS3 .

My movie has many transitions, titles i.e. effects which must be rendered and as I understand can not be produced properly in 1080 50P using SVRT. Other users in the forum report that when using SVRT there are some visible artifacts before or after transition, effects i.e. parts that must be rendered. I have not managed to activate the SVRT at all but thanks to this my produced files look just as goods as the original ones and there are no artifacts in the rendered part.
For others who are trying to do the same I list the settings I have used:
1) All hardware acceleration in preferences and on the produce screen are OFF. In my case (ATI HD 5850 latest drivers) the hardware acceleration hangs the program.
2) In Preferences / Produce the "Intel Reduce blocky artifacts" is OFF
3) Bitrate - I have edited the profile.ini and have set the average bitrate to the same value as the source file (in my case 25,7 Mb/s) the minimum to the standard (ca. 11,5 MB/s) and the max bitrate little bit higher than the source file ( 27 M/s).
4) PROFILE TYPE - SET TO BASELINE PROFILE. I have not noticed any kind of image deterioration when using this setting and this is the only setting which in my case has allowed me to achieve no image deterioration and playability on PS3.
5) Entropy coding - CAVLC (you can not use the other one when setting to baseline profile)
6) Speed quality indicator is set to max quality and Use deblocking is ON (which seems to be quite important ; if it is off the quality deteriorates)
7) In profile.ini the dynamic GOP is set to 1 (although I do not know whether it matters or what are the results when setting to default 0)

of course 1920x1080 50 frames progressive
9) Audio: Dolby ; Stereo ; 256

The produced file was ran through FixPD9 an then transferred to the PS3.

In my case the single least obvious setting which made the difference and made it possible to playback perfectly on PS3 was changing the High profile (the original file was High profile) to Baseline profile.

I hope that this will help others who want to use PS3 as media player for 1080 50P.

pjc3

Senior Member Location: Australia Joined: May 29, 2010 19:33 Messages: 247 Offline

Aug 07, 2011 16:52

Quote:

In my case the single least obvious setting which made the difference and made it possible to playback perfectly on PS3 was changing the High profile (the original file was High profile) to Baseline profile.

I hope that this will help others who want to use PS3 as media player for 1080 50P.

Well done! This is an important find which I don't think has been mentioned before. If it is universally a fix for PS3 rendering then I suspect many people will benefit.

Pleased to hear you got it sorted. Panasonic SD9, Panasonic TM700, Panasonic SD600, GoPro HD Hero.

IanLav

Newbie Joined: Mar 12, 2011 15:29 Messages: 6 Offline

Feb 27, 2012 20:40

MateuszPK, I have spent considerable time trying to replicate your findings without success. With SVRT turned off in any profile, I get video and audio stutter on the PS3.

However, I would like to thank you as you got me thinking about some of those options. Through some testing and research I have determined that the CAVLC entropy coding will give better playback results on the PS3 and other media players. I was having problems until I started using CAVLC, even with SVRT turned on.

Apparently, CAVLC is a less efficient compression technique, but requires considerably less processing power to decode.

So for those who can use SVRT but still have problems playing 1080p50/60 on the PS3, try using CAVLC entropy coding on High Profile (and remux with FixPD9). PD9 64 Bit - Win7 Home Premium 64 Bit
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