Hello,

It doesn't really shorten it, it just utilizes the transition.

For example, if did the following: add two video clips that are 5 seconds long on the timeline, and then you add a fade transition between them, with a duration of 2 seconds.

Then the result is the first video clip would begin fading out at the 3 second mark and then the fade would be fully complete at the 2 second mark of the second clip.

If you need to see the entire clip, extend it an extra 1 sec at the beginning. This is how transitions work. It needs time to fade in and out.

Regards,
David

CLD
I noticed the very begining of my clips missing.

I have a clip that I used PD to detect the scenes.
So I put all the detected scenes in the video track
all right next to each other.

Then I took the orignal clip and put it in the PIP track.

I can see both the video track and PIP track are exactly the same length.

Then I add transitions to the scenes in the video track and now sure enough its shorter than the clip in the PIP track whcih is the original.

I cant extend my clips because the begining, is the begining.

What CLD described is what I expect, but not what I see.

Going to try adding a transition at the end of a clip, then place the next clip.
Just For Fun
i7 Core@3.8ghz 6gig mem 3 HDD geForce8400
Canon HF S20

Hi,

Yes...I know what you mean. In my example, which I should have made clearer, the total length of the two clips would then be 8 seconds.

Clip 2 in my example will start at the 3 second mark, because the transition is beginning.

To adjust it, select your clip that you got from the detected scene, and then click the Trim button. Adjust the mark in point to be 1 or 2 seconds sooner to compensate for the transition.

Or make the transition shorter.

Regards,

David

You should be able to stretch it back out to the original length. I have never studied the details of why it does that, but I don't think it only happens with PiP. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM

Hi,
I left mtrapp's question unanswered to allow new members the opportunity to answer. My grand plan failed

I think the wrong question is being asked and should be:
What is a transition?
Do you need a transition?

When I use to assist my father splicing 8mm film together, we had to overlap the two parts and align them carefully after applying glue to secure the bond.

So in truth, a transition is an overlap event utilised by the editing program to indulge the desire of the editor to either apply a merge (fade) or some other effect. Just like an old film stuck together moment! As mentioned it is used to place a notable splash interaction between the join of two events in your video.

The way the program operates is a transition requires an equal about of time from two clips being joined. This can be as short as 2 frames and and here's the stipulation: A transition can be no greater than half the length of the shortest of two clip. Or one if a transition is place at the end or beginning of a video as part of a "fade in/out" without a color board.

Now I come to the need for a transition. Go watch an advert on TV - they don't use a transition because it's a fast presentation - boom boom wham and the message is delivered.

Next look at the feature length film on TV or one you hired. Look out for the sequences and the lack of transitions... Noticeable isn't it? You have 5 second video clips in a fast interchange moment and then a long watch able tense scene - where are the transitions?

I'll leave you with these thoughts and to your editing.

Dafydd
[Moderator]

Dafydd,

Thanks for your explanation. Can you say that "No Effect" is really a transition? Well, from "editing program" prospective of course it is but to the naked eye it appears as two clips are without any transition.

Now, speaking of those TV ads, during video production, do editors use "No Effect" transition or manually edit audio (fade in / out) and video (clip/trim) of each clip’s joints?
We all very often have jerky videos at the beginning and the end of the clips whenever pressing the "record" button too hard, too soon or too late. So what is the best (easiest/most efficient/least lossy) way of going about it?

Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take for granted... but to weigh and consider.

Quote: Dafydd,
Thanks for your explanation. Can you say that "No Effect" is really a transition? Well, from "editing program" prospective of course it is but to the naked eye it appears as two clips are without any transition.

Now, speaking of those TV ads, during video production, do editors use "No Effect" transition or manually edit audio (fade in / out) and video (clip/trim) of each clip’s joints?
We all very often have jerky videos at the beginning and the end of the clips whenever pressing the "record" button too hard, too soon or too late. So what is the best (easiest/most efficient/least lossy) way of going about it?

I don't use the "no effect" transition. I find it pointless. I think also you want the "jump" from one action to another and I didn't see any difference with or without that particular transition other than taking up a part of two clips.

Your second part is more to do with camera use.

FYI. When I have my camera on a tripod I use the remote control to avoid the likelihood of a judder especially when zoomed in on a subject.

I have one video camera that records instantly while another is slower to start up, so capturing a "moment" isn't that easy. I would edit out using the split option your unwanted bits.

Dafydd
[Moderator]

I don't use the "no effect" transition. I find it pointless. I think also you want the "jump" from one action to another and I didn't see any difference with or without that particular transition other than taking up a part of two clips.

Tripod with remote control recorder would be a perfect scenario for us all. I would bet that 99% of amateur videographers shoot from a hand and use their finger. That one second jerk in two joining clips will be easily hidden by a "No Effect" transition and without further work, will it not?

This is what I thought, if you make a habit of waiting two seconds at the beginning of each recorded clip and two seconds after you finished recording a scene, THEN, at the time of editing: you throw all your clips onto a timeline and add a 4 sec "No Effect" transition to every clip = your project will be basically done; the transition will take up all those wasted/unwanted "waiting" seconds. Alternatively, one will have to trim EACH and EVERY clip, which would not be very efficient, will it?

Dafydd, Another point, say, in your perfect example, when you do not need to trim anything, don’t you still need to do something with your audio, i.e. fading it out and in?
Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take for granted... but to weigh and consider.

I studied how PD applys the transistion and found the explanations here to be what I observed. Putting it another way, PD shifts the second of 2 clips to overlap the first by the amount of the transition.

For my clips I happened to hit the record button just right, meaning I could not trim the IN point of the second clip to a point earlier in time.
I shortened the transition to .5 sec and now not too much of the second clip is lost.

A better way for PD to apply transitions is to leave the 2 clips where they are in time and put 1/2 the transition on the end of the first and the other 1/2 on the begining of the second.

A main reason this is better is what if audio is decoupled from video?
Using PD current method the audio for the second clip is now no longer in sync with the video.

Also doing it this way leaves more of the second clip alone.
Just For Fun
i7 Core@3.8ghz 6gig mem 3 HDD geForce8400
Canon HF S20

mtrapp,

Using PD current method the audio for the second clip is now no longer in sync with the video.

Are you positive about this assumption? If YES, I will have to go back to my most recent project, delete ALL transitions and see if that finally solves the so-much-bothering problem of having out of sync audio. Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take for granted... but to weigh and consider.

http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/10302.page

Andy:
Would nned to run 1 more time to be 100%, I am 100% sure the clips get shifted by the amount of a transition each time a transition is added.

In my almost all my videos the audio is linked to the video so they shift together.

My video are just clips of my kids and vacations with stills intermixed and music added, so its not a big deal.

But occasinally this would be a problem for me when I strip off the audio for some reason.

Just For Fun
i7 Core@3.8ghz 6gig mem 3 HDD geForce8400
Canon HF S20

I think that there are 2 areas of PD "logic" that need recognising here.

Firstly, a transition is better defined as an overlap with a specific pattern, it is not a stand alone, time defined entity.

Logically, therefore, the overall length of two overlapped clips will be shortened by the length of the overlap.

In the PD timeline, events are applied from time 0 onwards, there can be no "blank" spaces in the main timeline (as opposed to the PiP tracks).

Therefore, only the clip after a transition can be "moved" - towards T0 - to give the overlap, although both clips share the length of the overlap equally.

Secondly, the length of a clip can be defined in time (mins and secs) but the PD timeline is laid out in time and frames.

At frame level the clips remain the same length but the overall time line shows a shortening equal to the length of the transition. Visually, this may appear as the second clip being shortened but it actually remains the same length.

It is also worth noting that in editing, time may need to be translated into frames, so a .5 sec trim in a PAL project (25fps) is 12.5 frames, which is not possible - it is either 12 or 13 - whereas it is 15 frames in a NTSC project and therefore possible.

The minimum possible "length" of a transition appears to be 2 frames.

In practical terms, when a clip is actually too short for the overlap and the effect is spoiled, here are 3 suggestions :

Make up a custom transition as a stand alone clip and place this between the main clips,

Abandon the transition and use a PiP track overlay/colourboard instead

Take a snapshot of the last frame of the 1st clip and the first frame of the 2nd clip and use them, with suitable durations, to help the overlap look better.

The audio sync is a more difficult problem to overcome. Just for information, the minimum distance for audio markers on the waveform "rubber band" appears to be 0.2 secs = 5 frames for PAL and 6 frames for NTSC.

Cheers
Adrian
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

Hi Guys, I am experiencing the same problem. I made a slide show by first dragging my mpg song file to the music line on the storyboard.

Next I "drag and drop"ed the clips (jpg images) lengthening or shortening them so as to synchronize them with the sound track.

Then I added subtitles, particles, effects etc.

When I previewed the movie it looked and played great.

Finally I added transitions and everything went to hell in a hand-basket. Nothing was in sync! There must be a way to lock the clips onto the timeline so that transitions do not shorten the following clip (which indeed they are shortening).

If this cannot be accomplished, it is a "bug" at best, or a "design flaw" at worst.

Anyway, if anyone knows how to do this please comment. If no one knows a fix, this is an issue that should be submitted to the programmers for a solution in the next update.

I believe you have misunderstood the previous posts. A transition in PD is NOT a stand alone asset to be "added" to the timeline , it is an OVERLAP of two adjacent assets in a particular pattern of your choice.

Whether transitions should be based on the traditional film splicing principle is a bigger debate but in PD they are.

As editors we have to understand the design constraints of our software and work accordingly, where there are replicatable and evidenced bugs they need to be reported and (maybe) rectified.

If we also produce our video/sound/images we need to do so with editing in mind - so for transitions we need to be more careful, where possible, to allow for the start/end of the clip and shoot accordingly.

Cheers
Adrian Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

Hi Adrian, let me begin by thanking you for taking the time to comment.

Actually I did understand the previous posts.

Also, experience using PD shows me that "Transitions" are not stand-alone assets to be "added" to the timeline. If they were, the time line would be LENGTHENED with each "Transition" added.

Nor is it an OVERLAP, as such in digital media would result in an unintelligible image.

Whether "Transitions" should be based on "the traditional film splicing principle" is not a matter for debate. This is digital editing of digital media and there is no need for razor blades, glue, light tables or the shortening of clips.

Actually, "OVERLAPPING" in traditional film splicing was only done by amateurs. Professionals used strips of clear celluloid for joining so as to "NOT SHORTEN ADJACENT CLIPS".

I do agree that as "Editors" we need to understand the "DESIGN CONSTRAINTS" (other terms are DESIGN LIMITATIONS and DESIGN FLAWS) and work accordingly.

The reason for the questions you see under this section of the forum is that users of PD are trying to verify what those DESIGN CONSTRAINTS are so as to be able to work within the confines of the PD software.

Finally, your advice to "be more careful" and "shoot with the editing limitations in mind" is indeed the only fix we PD users have available to us at this time.

However, more often than not Editors must edit media shot by someone who has no Idea what editing software will be used. Also, modifying filming habits to fit editing software constraints seems to be a backwards way of doing things.

I happen to like Power Director 8. As a matter of fact, I absolutely love it. I also love the fact that there is a users community and interface where these issues may be discussed and one can hear ideas for solutions to common problems.

A small snippet of code will allow PD users to "OVERLAY" not "OVERLAP" a "transition" over their production without shortening the adjacent clip.

This would be a simple but very important update that would make PD a more powerful and user friendly program. I hope the programmers are listening.

Cheers, KLR.

Nor is it an OVERLAP, as such in digital media would result in an unintelligible image.

My point, made simply for the purposes of the post, is illustrated by taking, say, a 15 frame image of the maple leaves jpg to the timeline, adding a 15 frame streetlighting jpg to give a 30 frame clip with no transitions. Use a simple 5 frame fade and look at the results.

The overall playing length of the 2 clips is now 25 frames but if either clip is highlighted they remain as 15 frame clips - neither has been shortened. The last clip on the time line has been moved towards time 0 by overlapping the first clip, if either are selected the overlap is apparent.

Indeed, if the timeline scrubber is placed over the transition the preview window will show that both clips are being "mixed", for lack of a better word.

In slightly more complex terms (although from Wikipedia) :-
"In non-linear video editing, a dissolve is done in software, by interpolating gradually between the RGB values of each pixel of the image. The audio track optionally cross-fades between the clips. A dissolve effectively overlaps two clips for the duration of the effect. The lengths of the two scenes can be adjusted by trimming, which, if desired, can change the original durations of the scenes before the dissolve was added."

There are many other papers out there that deal with the necessary algorithms and technology that actually produce transition effects but, to be honest, the result is the same - PD uses an "overlap" of adjacent clips to produce transitions.

How you choose to shoot is a matter for you, all I indicated was, that if you use PD, maybe that's what is required to make life easier.

From the forum header -
"This is a forum for CyberLink members to discuss and share their users' experience. CyberLink customer support will not reply in the forum regarding the technical issues."

I hope the programmers are listening

I think it unlikely and therefore perhaps such suggestions need to go to CL direct?

Cheers
Adrian
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

Sorry to use an old thread, but I just PD8 today. Spent about an hour or so syncing video & jpg clips to a 45sec audio clip to get things lined up.

Got it where I wanted it, then added a fade transistion between the clips, and oh crap! My 45 sec clip is now 35sec of video, but my audio track is still good!

So to the forums, and see this thread, exactly what I expierenced; but sadly no fix or workaround. I finaly under stand what is hapening, the clips are all the same length, just now they overlap instead of butt next to each other. Sadly my last expierence with video editing was Roxio Creator 7. In the layout you had the clips, then between the clips was the option to add a transistion, it 'overlapped' the video clips, not overlayed the video clips.

I did find this thread: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/10070.page#44343 about fading out/in. The suggestion is to add a 3sec blackboard, and a 1sec fade to the begining/end of each video clip.

Is that the only way to make the transistion I want?